Hawks and Wings Cap Situations heading into Summer '10

[mmamolo 287]

I know it's still obviously super early but I was just lookin gover some cap numbers and I know everyone has been saying how bad a shape Chicago is going to be in but I just sat down and actually looked at it and it is far, far more terrible than I had realized. The Hawks have $14.25M in cap space next summer with only 12 players signed. While the Wings have $16.1M in space with 13 players signed.

Upcoming UFAS:

Chicago: JOhn Madde, Adam Burrish, Andrew Ebbett

Detroit:Tomas Holmstrom, Todd Bertuzzi, Jason Williams, Kirk Maltby, Brad May, Nicklas Lidstrom, Andreas Lilja, Brett Lebda

Upcoming RFAS:

Chicago: Patrick Kane, Jonathan Toews, Andrew Ladd, Ben Eager, Colin Fraser, Duncan Keith, Niklas Hjalmarsson, Jordan Hendry, Antti Niemi

Detroit: Justin ABdelkader, Darren Helm, Patrick Eaves, Derek Meech

The biggest difference between these two scenarios is obviously the expectged money the free agents are expected to get. While both teams will undoubtedly have to trim some ppl from their current roster it will be far more difficult for Chicago to resign their key free agents (Kane, Toews, Keith) and their second tier free agents (Burrish, Ladd, Eager, Fraser, Hjalmarsson, Niemi) than it will be for Detroit (Lidstrom) (Abdelkader, Helm).

[VM1138 1,921]

I know it's still obviously super early but I was just lookin gover some cap numbers and I know everyone has been saying how bad a shape Chicago is going to be in but I just sat down and actually looked at it and it is far, far more terrible than I had realized. The Hawks have $14.25M in cap space next summer with only 12 players signed. While the Wings have $16.1M in space with 13 players signed.

Upcoming UFAS:

Chicago: JOhn Madde, Adam Burrish, Andrew Ebbett

Detroit:Tomas Holmstrom, Todd Bertuzzi, Jason Williams, Kirk Maltby, Brad May, Nicklas Lidstrom, Andreas Lilja, Brett Lebda

Upcoming RFAS:

Chicago: Patrick Kane, Jonathan Toews, Andrew Ladd, Ben Eager, Colin Fraser, Duncan Keith, Niklas Hjalmarsson, Jordan Hendry, Antti Niemi

Detroit: Justin ABdelkader, Darren Helm, Patrick Eaves, Derek Meech

The biggest difference between these two scenarios is obviously the expectged money the free agents are expected to get. While both teams will undoubtedly have to trim some ppl from their current roster it will be far more difficult for Chicago to resign their key free agents (Kane, Toews, Keith) and their second tier free agents (Burrish, Ladd, Eager, Fraser, Hjalmarsson, Niemi) than it will be for Detroit (Lidstrom) (Abdelkader, Helm).

I don't think the Wings are in that bad of shape, really. Maltby will probably retire, who knows what Bertuzzi will do, pretty much everyone else will take some sort of pay cut because they are at the end of their careers. Who knows what is happening with Lilja. And they're almost all role players, so to replace them I don't think we'd need to spend more than 2 million on average per replacement player. (That's an average, some will be more and some will be less)

[mmamolo 287]

Oh I definitely agree. I wasn't implying Detroit was in bad shape. If anythign I showed both to show how much better of a situation the Wings are in compared to the Hawks. I really think the Wings could resign everyone they want from their current roster and still have a good chunk of money left over to spend if they wanted. WHere as the Hawks aren't goign to be able to resign their big 3.

[Buppy 1,720]

And if Kane and Toews get all of their bonus money, they'll be like $4 million over the cap...which will count against next year's cap.

It's about as ugly as you can get. Still, I think they'll end up keeping all three of their big RFAs, and trade some other players like Sharp, Versteeg, Sopel, Campbell (if anyone will take him), or maybe even Hossa.

[Echolalia 2,961]

I don't think Detroit is really in bad shape, but at the same time I don't think the organization has the type of flexibility that most people think they do. We lucked out the past couple years from the benefit of having an all-star player in Zetterberg for dirt cheap, (and Franzen, also, but he bloomed a bit later), which gave Holland and co. the flexibility to sign a solid cast. Hudler, Sammy, etc were also pretty good deals for the numbers they ended up producing. Now we have all this money tied up in our star players (which is where it belongs, honestly), which results in less money for a solid supporting cast. Sure Lids will be taking a pay cut soon, but to what extent nobody knows, and he's on the second half of his bell-curve of talent (diminishing returns for all you investors out there), while Zetterberg and company were only getting better when they were on smaller contracts. The key thing I'm looking at is how much the younger guys will develop in their current contracts. If they end up becoming steals like Franzen, Zetterberg, etc, then we'll get to enjoy a couple years or so of having cap space for luxury signings (knock on wood).

I think my reasoning is a bit long winded and depressing for what I was aiming for, so my disclaimer is that I'm not being pessimistic or thing the Wings are doomed or anything, but at the same time it's going to be a lot more difficult to maintain elite status the way the have done in the past, at least barring any super-star that emerges with a 1M contract for three years.

[jollymania 162]

Hjalmersson would be a nice offer sheet pick up for someone, but i hope a team poaches one of their big 2 rfas kane or kieth

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Not to mention the fact that the bulk of the Blackhawk's FA's next year are RFA's rather than UFA's. The Wings can always pick up people on the cheap, but when you've got RFA talent like the Blackhawks do (including how many there are) its way more difficult to retain players.

[under_par_00 45]

Hjalmersson would be a nice offer sheet pick up for someone, but i hope a team poaches one of their big 2 rfas kane or kieth

I say we pick up this guy. He would be good on the 3rd pairing with E.

[vOrophin 5]

If Chicago can get rid of Campbell and Huet somehow they might be ok, but I'm not sure who in their right mind would take either of those contracts.

[dat's sick 1,002]

I say we pick up this guy. He would be good on the 3rd pairing with E.

Hjalmarsson would be good anywhere on the Wings. He has huge potential. But I don't think the Hawks would let him go, Bowman thinks pretty highly of him.

[Buppy 1,720]

Hjalmarsson would be good anywhere on the Wings. He has huge potential. But I don't think the Hawks would let him go, Bowman thinks pretty highly of him.

He's a RFA too, so I doubt the Wings would be willing to give up the compesation they'd have to pay for anything the Hawks wouldn't match.

There's a few good UFA defensemen out there, like Volchenkov, if we need one.

[XxGoWingsxX 0]

He's a RFA too, so I doubt the Wings would be willing to give up the compesation they'd have to pay for anything the Hawks wouldn't match.

There's a few good UFA defensemen out there, like Volchenkov, if we need one.

Which we very well may if Lilja doesn't make a recovery soon. So let me get this straight, he's on LTIR, so his cap number doesn't count...and he's a RFA after this year....so if he can't play , thats it? He just walks off and thats the end or how does that work?

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Hjalmersson would be a nice offer sheet pick up for someone, but i hope a team poaches one of their big 2 rfas kane or kieth

No one will pouch those guys on an offer sheet because the level of compensation (picks) needed would be absurd. They'll have to trade one or more of them.

[lfd250 1]

Not sure picks are that big of a deal. Does anyone know the next couple of young classes? Sign them to a huge offer sheet and see what happens. Worse thing is, you lose picks and have a good player.

[Jaymister 71]

The Hawks are so screwed they will lose at least one of the three big free agents. The Campbell and Hossa deals are looking really dumb right now, not to mention having to keep Huet and let Khabibulin walk. I could see them potentially losing both Toews and Keith, they will have to move a bunch of salary to keep Kane and either Toews or keith. The question is who do they let walk? As good as he is I would let Keith walk. I think Toews has a good shot of becoming a superstar in this league and they can't let Kane go.

[Gnredwing 10]

"The Campbell and Hossa deals are looking really dumb right now" how can anyone say that. What if Hossa and Campell both have great years and lead Chicago to a cup. I hate to say it but I think this whole thread was started so us Wings fans have something positive to look foward to, next year! Chicago has a great team, good for them. Hopefully we can beat them but lets give them credit instead of saying they are so screwed because of contracts or lack of.

[pat_honda 0]

This thread is hilarious. You guys LOVE the Hawks.

[Jaymister 71]

"The Campbell and Hossa deals are looking really dumb right now" how can anyone say that. What if Hossa and Campell both have great years and lead Chicago to a cup. I hate to say it but I think this whole thread was started so us Wings fans have something positive to look foward to, next year! Chicago has a great team, good for them. Hopefully we can beat them but lets give them credit instead of saying they are so screwed because of contracts or lack of.

They will look dumb if they lose Toews and Keith because of it. Hossa underachieves in the playoffs more often then not and Campbell was the team wiping boy last year for his defensive blunders. They will not win the Cup this season unless they pull of a trade to get a better goaltender, you can't win a championship with Huet in net and if i'm wrong i will gladly eat my own words.

[Snazzy 0]

"The Campbell and Hossa deals are looking really dumb right now" how can anyone say that. What if Hossa and Campell both have great years and lead Chicago to a cup. I hate to say it but I think this whole thread was started so us Wings fans have something positive to look foward to, next year! Chicago has a great team, good for them. Hopefully we can beat them but lets give them credit instead of saying they are so screwed because of contracts or lack of.

I think his point is it's dumb in the aspect of those signings is virtually costing them their future (stars). No way Hawks keep the big three and have enough cap to employ a full roster next year. Chicago is a mess and no matter what happens, it's not going be good if you're a Chicago fan. They are going to be forced to do thing that will make Bowman look like an absolute idiot. And with the NHL watching (and investigating) llong contracts now, they're not going to sign Kane/Toews/Keith to 25 year deals for a cap hit of 3 million each (which was what they were probably pinning their hope on)

Nobody, and I mean NOBODY will take Huet (or Campbell) with those ridiculous contracts. The only way they'll be able to get rid of them is if the Hawks eat a big portion of their contracts. And no way Hawks win the cup with Huet in net. He simply isn't good enough down the stretch. Some of the Hawk fans are pinning an ounce of hope on Neimi, but I haven't seen anything consistent from him that shows me he is a competent goalie that can carry them to the finals.

The Penguins will have a cap space mess next year too.

[mmamolo 287]

"The Campbell and Hossa deals are looking really dumb right now" how can anyone say that. What if Hossa and Campell both have great years and lead Chicago to a cup. I hate to say it but I think this whole thread was started so us Wings fans have something positive to look foward to, next year! Chicago has a great team, good for them. Hopefully we can beat them but lets give them credit instead of saying they are so screwed because of contracts or lack of.

I started this thread and in all honesty I really like the Hawks. I was really happy with their resurgence last season and want them to continue to be a contender. I made this thread, looking at the cap situations for both teams, because they are my two favourite teams in the leagueand both are entering summers with very interesting cap scenarios . I've been a Wings fan since I was five but as a second favourite I've always liked the Hawks.

[Superman54 91]

I like to believe he will wait till he can sign with Detroit. Stevey the GM, Toews idols Stevie...

[Tommy_Like_Wingy 25]

Not to mention the fact that the bulk of the Blackhawk's FA's next year are RFA's rather than UFA's. The Wings can always pick up people on the cheap, but when you've got RFA talent like the Blackhawks do (including how many there are) its way more difficult to retain players.

That's why you sign them during the season. I almost guarantee that's what happens. I have no doubt they'll probably sign all 3 since these guys rebuilt Chicago hockey. Their supporting cast will just take a hit. It's up to Bowman as to how hard of a hit that is.

[Yzerman191 37]

Even if the 'Hawks sign just Toews, Kane, and Keith to contracts worth about $4M a piece (good luck with that), they'll still be over the cap. They are the epitome of cap hell.

[Buppy 1,720]

The Hossa contract is still a very good one. He's as good or better than anyone they might lose. We'll see in 5 or 6 years if it stays a good deal, but for next year having a player of his caliber at that cap hit is very good, no matter what other problems they might have.

Campbell's on the other hand, would be awful even if they were well under the cap.

[KrazyGangsta 79]

Players need to be re-signed : Lidstrom - May (Just like this season) - Lilja (If healthy) - Helm - Abdelkaber.

Players that need to examined this year : Holmstrom - Bertuzzi - Williams.

Players that musn't be resigned (100%) : Lebda - Maltby.

Yes Holmstrom is benefiting to be on a line with Dats - and Zetts, I wouldn't mind having him in the lineup next season but let's go with 1 year contract with him from now on just in case.

Lids needs to also be on a one year contract considering his age and unfortunately the past two seasons he seems to be a step down from 2-3 years ago.

Bertuzzi and Williams need to be examined on how they play both offensive and defensively. Wouldn't mind keeping them as 3rd line - 4th line players but not both please.

Maltby is too old and wasting a space on the roster.

Lebda ... oh come on do I need to say.

Holmstrom - Zetterberg - Datsyuk

Leino - Filppula - Franzen

Helm - Draper - Cleary

*** - Abdelkader - ***

Lids Rafalski

Kronwall Stuart

Ericsson Kindl

Edited October 23, 2009 by KrazyGangsta