Leino scratched on saturday

[Guest mindfly]

What?

Reread please...

OR SOMETHING e.g in two years

[Broken 16 381]

You still didn't understand the point. He gets under 800k. People doesn't seem to get it. Bertuzzi gets 2x Leino's salary. If you think it's because I'm Finnish you're just wrong. I've watched him play since 2002. As long as his salary is what it is, I suggest that you stop bashing him.

Leino gets payed like a slug and treated like a slug because he has yet to prove that he should be treated otherwise. You seem to be implying that the Wings should feel blessed to have Ville at his current salary (a salary that he agreed to, no less) and handle him with baby gloves. He either produces or he sits. It's as simple as that. Weather or not he actually likes it is completely immaterial.

[skyphoenix 153]

Hes producing as much as an 800k player should. Hes getting paid nothing to produce on the second line and gets benched when players are playing worse than him. I agree he isnt playing up to expectations and he isnt playing as well as he could, but even he admits it and says he needs to stop thinking so much. I dont see what benching him does to help the team at this point.

[Carman 387]

Hes producing as much as an 800k player should. Hes getting paid nothing to produce on the second line and gets benched when players are playing worse than him. I agree he isnt playing up to expectations and he isnt playing as well as he could, but even he admits it and says he needs to stop thinking so much. I dont see what benching him does to help the team at this point.

From personal experience, being benched should motivate a competitive player to play to the best of his capabilities the next time he is on the ice. It's only one game, and the advantages to having a motivated Leino for the rest of the season could highly outweigh the loss of his production for one game. I think we all agree that Leino could be playing better, and this is Babcock's way of getting Leino to play his best.

[Dominator2005 558]

I like that Babcock is being a hard ass and sending a message. He was sending a message yesterday by not pulling Howard.

1). he was letting Howard sweat it out in a do-or-die situation

2). he was allowing the Red Wings get embarrassed as a whole

3). he was sending a message to Osgood

Now this comment he made about Leino should get Leino's blood flowing, plus shows the entire team that they are expandable if they don't want to play. I like it.

[brett 1,029]

stop hating on leino. yes he def was over hyped coming into the seaon but this is his first season and he hasnt found his place or chemistry with anyone yet. im hoping babs plays him with dats or z and hell start producing if he doesnt then yeah f*** him.

[Uncle Danny 155]

Hes producing as much as an 800k player should. Hes getting paid nothing to produce on the second line and gets benched when players are playing worse than him. I agree he isnt playing up to expectations and he isnt playing as well as he could, but even he admits it and says he needs to stop thinking so much. I dont see what benching him does to help the team at this point.

I understand where you're coming from, but the logic is flawed.

1) "Hes producing as much as an 800k player should." No, he's being paid to help the team win. The team hasn't been doing that, and the coach thinks he can do a better job.

2) "gets benched when players are playing worse than him"

I honestly don't mean this as a personal attack, but have you ever managed people professionally? It isn't a black and white job. If underperformance A, then penalty Z. It just doesn't work that way. Any good manager/coach will look at the personalities of his squad and determine what the proper motivation is to fix the underformance. Maybe in the case of Z, it's a harsh one-on-one talking to. In the case of Draper, maybe it's giving the last d-zone faceoff in a tie game to another center. Maybe in the case of Leino, it's a benching to let him think about what's been happening. Etc, etc, etc.

Just because other players have also underperformed doesn't mean they deserve the same punishment or that punishments get handed out in some sort of order. We're not grading on a curve here, we're grading an entire team, on which he has a job to do. A job that Babcock doesn't seem to think he's being doing as well as he should. Babs knows more about hockey than everyone I know combined, so I'm going to defer to his judgment.

[Finnish Wing 110]

Salary is only so important when a team has as much cap space as us. We need him to be a top 6 player, he's shown he can do it now he needs to show he can do it every single night. That's all I'm saying, I'm not bashing him as much as I'm supporting Babcock's decision to try and get the best out of his players as he can. I haven't been that impressed with Leino so far this season, but he is far from our worst player. I just think this was a good decision by Babcock consider how good Leino can be.

Maybe it's not Leino's fault. He gets the 800k and plays like that. Maybe Holland and Babs should organize this better team so there weren't question marks like that. I never said I expect him to score 30+. This is a salary cap world and everyone should notice that before bashing anyone. Maybe your team isn't organized well if you've got 1,5M guy centering the fourth line while 800k guy should be a top six player.

[Carman 387]

Maybe it's not Leino's fault. He gets the 800k and plays like that. Maybe Holland and Babs should organize this better team so there weren't question marks like that. I never said I expect him to score 30+. This is a salary cap world and everyone should notice that before bashing anyone. Maybe your team isn't organized well if you've got 1,5M guy centering the fourth line while 800k guy should be a top six player.

It's called an entry level contract. There are many players that expectations are higher then their entry level deal suggests. If you don't agree with this I don't know what to say.

Edited November 1, 2009 by Carman

[Guest E_S_A_D]

It's called an entry level contract. There are many players that expectations are higher then their entry level deal suggests. If you don't agree with this I don't know what to say.

Yes. Finnish Wings man love for Leino is superceeding rational thought.

[Finnish Wing 110]

It's called an entry level contract. There are many players that expectations are higher then their entry level deal suggests. If you don't agree with this I don't know what to say.

I though those contract were only about young drafted players coming to NHL. I didn't know there was some kinda limit of maximum salary (except the ~11M or something) in Leino's case. If Leino's salary is really "only" 800k because of some rule in NHL then I take back my words.

[Nev 1,085]

I though those contract were only about young drafted players coming to NHL. I didn't know there was some kinda limit of maximum salary (except the ~11M or something) in Leino's case. If Leino's salary is really "only" 800k because of some rule in NHL then I take back my words.

I stand to be corrected on this, but wasn't last years contract "entry level". I recall that the chase for him came down to which team he wanted to play for, as all the teams wanting him could only offer him the same money. Now he's on a proper NHL contract and he could have been given whatever.

[kook_10 1,705]

So I'm not so sure that Ville's benching on Saturday had much of an effect. Last night he seemed relatively invisible again, and when I did see him he was bent over at the waist reaching for guys instead of moving his feet. What do you guys think?

[ManLuv4Clears 7]

So I'm not so sure that Ville's benching on Saturday had much of an effect. Last night he seemed relatively invisible again, and when I did see him he was bent over at the waist reaching for guys instead of moving his feet. What do you guys think?

I did see him get smoked once or twice, I don't think that has much to do with benching for motivation though unless he was putting himself in bad situations by trying to hard. I doubt that's the case though.

[alowicious 0]

So I'm not so sure that Ville's benching on Saturday had much of an effect. Last night he seemed relatively invisible again, and when I did see him he was bent over at the waist reaching for guys instead of moving his feet. What do you guys think?

Not very impressive to say the least. At times it looked like he just gave up instead of trying to get to the puck. In one instance in the second period, I thoroughly believe that he could have gotten to a puck way before the Boston defensive player to negate an icing and he just watched the puck. I don't know if he is frustrated or just not trying. Either way, it looks extremely bad and if he wants to play with this organization he needs to step it up.

If he doesn't significantly improve this year I wouldn't be upset to see him move on. This is his chance, as they say, s*** or get off the pot.

Go Wings!

[thedatsyukian 7]

Leino was about as invisible as he could be last night. I think the pressure of needing to produce because he's on the roster is getting too him as you can see him really gripping that stick tight. One big game should hopefully give him the confidence to turn it around but I don't see it happening with his line mates.

[dragonballgtz 273]

Maybe it's not Leino's fault. He gets the 800k and plays like that. Maybe Holland and Babs should organize this better team so there weren't question marks like that. I never said I expect him to score 30+. This is a salary cap world and everyone should notice that before bashing anyone. Maybe your team isn't organized well if you've got 1,5M guy centering the fourth line while 800k guy should be a top six player.

So are you saying people that make less money should not try to develop and get better? Its almost like you are giving Leino the OK to be bad because of how much he makes. If players always played at what their contract was worth then no one would ever get a raise after their first few seasons.

Z didn't play like a $2 million player when we won the SC more like a $8 million player.

[Johnny Law 15]

Not very impressive to say the least. At times it looked like he just gave up instead of trying to get to the puck. In one instance in the second period, I thoroughly believe that he could have gotten to a puck way before the Boston defensive player to negate an icing and he just watched the puck. I don't know if he is frustrated or just not trying. Either way, it looks extremely bad and if he wants to play with this organization he needs to step it up.

If he doesn't significantly improve this year I wouldn't be upset to see him move on. This is his chance, as they say, s*** or get off the pot.

Go Wings!

He's a skill player playing with grinders in his first year in the NHL, your going to have to be patient and give him some time. If you watched him in Jokerit and HPK you know he's a moves/shifty type player, a poor man's datsyuk if you will. Datsyuk's first year he had 35 points in 70 games and if you look historically these types of players take longer to develop.

That type of game is all based of spacing and 1/10 second reads and Leino right now is having a hard time dealing with this on the NHL level. Little hand holds and small positioning checks if you will are impeding his ability to get into open space and score. Veteran guys like Maltby and Drapes know how to get into open spaces and work through physical play with far less raw offensive skill because they know NHL defenders. Ville just doesn't have it figured out yet, I think with time though his skill is going to come through.

[Finnish Wing 110]

So are you saying people that make less money should not try to develop and get better? Its almost like you are giving Leino the OK to be bad because of how much he makes. If players always played at what their contract was worth then no one would ever get a raise after their first few seasons.

Z didn't play like a $2 million player when we won the SC more like a $8 million player.

Yeah. And Z was 'good' (or 'great') back then. You don't think Ville is worth 800k? I do. Ville is 'ok'. If he was paid like 2M then he would be 'bad'.

Don't know what's so hard to understand in this.

I repeat: I'm not one of those who said he's gonna score +30. I didn't make any predictions. I'm just hoping he does well.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

He's a skill player playing with grinders in his first year in the NHL, your going to have to be patient and give him some time. If you watched him in Jokerit and HPK you know he's a moves/shifty type player, a poor man's datsyuk if you will. Datsyuk's first year he had 35 points in 70 games and if you look historically these types of players take longer to develop.

That type of game is all based of spacing and 1/10 second reads and Leino right now is having a hard time dealing with this on the NHL level. Little hand holds and small positioning checks if you will are impeding his ability to get into open space and score. Veteran guys like Maltby and Drapes know how to get into open spaces and work through physical play with far less raw offensive skill because they know NHL defenders. Ville just doesn't have it figured out yet, I think with time though his skill is going to come through.

This.

EDIT: Really, he's a fricking rookie and we're 13 games into the season. Some people seem ready to cut their losses far far far too early. The list of players who looked lost at that point in their careers and are great now is pretty long.

Edited November 4, 2009 by Drake_Marcus

[kook_10 1,705]

This.

EDIT: Really, he's a fricking rookie and we're 13 games into the season. Some people seem ready to cut their losses far far far too early. The list of players who looked lost at that point in their careers and are great now is pretty long.

Offensively lost is one thing, but not moving his feet is another. He needs to get em going then he will be alright. Remember Russ Cortnall? He made a career out of being offensively lost and just moving his feet. He went a million miles an hour - where? No one knows.

Edited November 4, 2009 by kook_10

[dat's sick 1,002]

Put him next to Z on the 2nd line and maybe he'll start producing. I don't know why we're only playing with 2 guys on that line (Z and Cleary)? Why not have a 3rd guy too?

..or wait.. I think I saw someone skating up and down the rink at times last game. Is that maybe that Williams guy I've heard talk about? Either way, try Leino on that line instead of the 4th.

[alowicious 0]

Put him next to Z on the 2nd line and maybe he'll start producing. I don't know why we're only playing with 2 guys on that line (Z and Cleary)? Why not have a 3rd guy too?

..or wait.. I think I saw someone skating up and down the rink at times last game. Is that maybe that Williams guy I've heard talk about? Either way, try Leino on that line instead of the 4th.

There is a problem here. Once again we would be giving in to his demands. I think he was the one that basically gave Detroit an ultimatum saying he will play in the NHL or he is leaving. Now it's I will play on a top line or I am not going to try?

Prove that you are a good player and try. Skate hard, try your hardest every second you are on the ice. That is when you get rewarded. I mean, come on.

Besides if he were producing, we really couldn't call him lazy and complain about him as much.