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#81 Doggy

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 09:03 AM

QUOTE (Doc Holiday @ November 3, 2009 - 08:55AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sure he does, but not because he did something wrong.

It's because he made a hit that ended up with arguably the worst result. If the kid didn't turn his back last second he might have been perfectly fine and it would have been a highlight reel OHL hit. Would people still be getting angry at his hit?

Well he went in there trying to demolish him. Mission accomplished. I'll ask the question again -- who benefitted from it?
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#82 OsGOD

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 09:03 AM

QUOTE (kook_10 @ November 2, 2009 - 10:06PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That guy has 13pts and 357 PIM in the OHL. He also apparently played in the IHL for a stint. Is it common for players to return to juniors after playing in semi-pro leagues? It seems surprising to me that a player could move up to the IHL and come back and play with 16 year olds - especially as an enforcer type.


I know we (whalers) lost James Neal to the Dallas Stars for a bit during his last season.... So it isn't all that uncommon in the later years for their NHL-Pro teams to use them then send them back... seems a bit unfair... but only to those that haven't been good enough to be drafted yet



Just one chance is all i ever wanted...just one time i'd like to win the game...from now on i'll take the chance if i can have it...just one just one

#83 kook_10

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 09:25 AM

QUOTE (OsGOD @ November 3, 2009 - 09:03AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I know we (whalers) lost James Neal to the Dallas Stars for a bit during his last season.... So it isn't all that uncommon in the later years for their NHL-Pro teams to use them then send them back... seems a bit unfair... but only to those that haven't been good enough to be drafted yet


to me it seems unfair less in the "good enough" sense and more in the "experienced enough" sense. in making a move of leagues like that a player effectively graduates from a junior game to a full grown men's game. an unexceptional 15 or 16 year old may not be prepared to play the full grown men's game that the other guy brought back with him.

works every time


#84 micah

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 09:26 AM

If Kronwall threw his shoulder into someone who subsequently lost their helmet and cracked their skull on the ice, people in here would be sticking up for him.

I'm still trying to figure out what made this hit "dirty". If the injurred kid's helmet hadn't fallen off, the play would have continued. The outcome absolutely positively sucks for the kid, but the guy who threw the hit did not intend to injure him and didn't do anything notably dirty. He's a big body and he's there to play his game. When your game is throwing hits, you do run the risk of causing or reciving injurry. when your game is blocking pucks, you run the risk of getting injurred or even killed by one. It sucks, but there isn't a whole lot more that could be done to make the game safer without fundamentally changing it.

Equiptment again. Soften up pads so that if you throw a check at a guy on the boards and you miss, it hurts. That'll slow a few guys down. It will also reduce the dammage being done by assholes who do throw their elbows or shoulders into people's heads. Helmets should be properly fastened. It should be impossible to remove a helmet without consciously unlocking the chinstrap. As a fight fan, that would suck, but it is, IMO, necesarry to protect the players.
"It was pretty interesting," said Detroit coach Mike Babcock. "We had May in exhibition for a couple of games and no one gets hacked or whacked. When we don't have him, we get run. We don't have a team that twists off helmets at stoppages. You get tired of seeing it all the time. It's just nice when you get someone to look after that stuff."

#85 Donaldjr2448

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 09:44 AM

QUOTE (Shoreline @ November 2, 2009 - 09:49PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's arguable whether or not it was his elbow or his shoulder, as the frames go by way too fast for me to be able to tell which, but nonetheless, it was 100% assuredly a high hit. I don't know what the hell Fanelli was doing turning his back like that, but regardless of whether his back was turned or he was facing Liambas, that was still not even remotely close to a body check. He was aiming high the whole way.



I have to agree with Shoreline! He was aiming high, there is no doubt!

I think that main issue here is that players need to be taught how to defend themselves! Turning yourself face first into the boards is not the way to do that! The kid is 16 and probably a bit young for the league! I think the Erie player saw an opportuity for a hit and took it. It looks worse because of the aftermath!

I hope the young man makes a full recovery!!

#86 OsGOD

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 09:50 AM

QUOTE (kook_10 @ November 3, 2009 - 09:25AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
to me it seems unfair less in the "good enough" sense and more in the "experienced enough" sense. in making a move of leagues like that a player effectively graduates from a junior game to a full grown men's game. an unexceptional 15 or 16 year old may not be prepared to play the full grown men's game that the other guy brought back with him.

its almost like having our players who are veterans go down for conditioning stints in the AHL... granted the ages are a bit different, but the OHL does have its fair share of "overage" players as well. Each team is allowed to carry 3 older players... unless they up'd that this season. Moving away from Compuware area I haven't been able to go to any games this season.



Just one chance is all i ever wanted...just one time i'd like to win the game...from now on i'll take the chance if i can have it...just one just one

#87 Doc Holiday

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 10:21 AM

QUOTE (Doggy @ November 3, 2009 - 09:03AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well he went in there trying to demolish him. Mission accomplished. I'll ask the question again -- who benefitted from it?


If the kid got up then the hitter would have certainly benefitted. What does that have to do with anything?

#88 Doggy

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 10:35 AM

QUOTE (Doc Holiday @ November 3, 2009 - 10:21AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If the kid got up then the hitter would have certainly benefitted. What does that have to do with anything?

How?
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#89 Doc Holiday

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 10:42 AM

QUOTE (Doggy @ November 3, 2009 - 10:35AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
How?


Finishing his hit? Potentially taking the player off the puck? Giving the player pressure?

#90 Doggy

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 11:16 AM

QUOTE (Doc Holiday @ November 3, 2009 - 10:42AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Finishing his hit? Potentially taking the player off the puck? Giving the player pressure?

The play had been reversed. The puck was gone.
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#91 Doc Holiday

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 11:32 AM

QUOTE (Doggy @ November 3, 2009 - 11:16AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The play had been reversed. The puck was gone.




Do you have a point? Plenty of hits happen quickly after the puck is gone (note how I said POTENTIALLY). In many cases however the hit is made to get the player to lose the puck either by their own will or by the force of the hit.

I still am wondering where you are going with this and what it has to do with the hit in question.

Edited by Doc Holiday, 03 November 2009 - 11:32 AM.


#92 Doggy

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 12:17 PM

QUOTE (Doc Holiday @ November 3, 2009 - 11:32AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Do you have a point? Plenty of hits happen quickly after the puck is gone (note how I said POTENTIALLY). In many cases however the hit is made to get the player to lose the puck either by their own will or by the force of the hit.

I still am wondering where you are going with this and what it has to do with the hit in question.

You seem to have missed the times I've mentioned that I don't mind a hit like that at the NHL-level. They're all bigger, stronger and smarter. It's still not a legal IMO, but it's part of the game. They know (or at least should know) how to protect themselves. That video you posted has as much to do with my contention as a scene from 'Debbie Does Dallas'.

In my view, this stuff is completely unnecessary in a developmental league with 16 year olds skating around. It's a recipe for disaster when you've got these hulking, skill-less 20 year olds floating around with underagers that are still growing and learning the game. If these guys decide to flatten a player who isn't quite cagey enough to protect himself properly, that kid gets flattened. The results were made more unfortunate by the fact his helmet came off on impact but luckily, this is NOT the worst that could've happened. He could be dead right now.

Doc, you don't agree. That's fine. But try to absorb what I'm saying here because you're missing my point entirely. I'm aware that hockey's a dangerous sport. It always will be. It's the nature of the game and it's part of what makes it the best sport on Earth. But protecting players, in particular kids, should never be disregarded.
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#93 skacore

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 12:21 PM

QUOTE (Doggy @ November 3, 2009 - 01:17PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You seem to have missed the times I've mentioned that I don't mind a hit like that at the NHL-level. They're all bigger, stronger and smarter. It's still not a legal IMO, but it's part of the game. They know (or at least should know) how to protect themselves. That video you posted has as much to do with my contention as a scene from 'Debbie Does Dallas'.

In my view, this stuff is completely unnecessary in a developmental league with 16 year olds skating around. It's a recipe for disaster when you've got these hulking, skill-less 20 year olds floating around with underagers that are still growing and learning the game. If these guys decide to flatten a player who isn't quite cagey enough to protect himself properly, that kid gets flattened. The results were made more unfortunate by the fact his helmet came off on impact but luckily, this is NOT the worst that could've happened. He could be dead right now.

Doc, you don't agree. That's fine. But try to absorb what I'm saying here because you're missing my point entirely. I'm aware that hockey's a dangerous sport. It always will be. It's the nature of the game and it's part of what makes it the best sport on Earth. But protecting players, in particular kids, should never be disregarded.

If a 16 year old can't learn to play contact hockey with 15-20 year olds, how is he going to adjust to play in the NHL in a couple of years against 25-30 year olds?

#94 OsGOD

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 12:21 PM

maybe they should mandate that all kiddies (until they can protect themselves) wear full faceshields and keep their helmets tight on their heads... that should be a rule too.

The OHL in general is a joke when it comes to protection... they wear 1/2 shields on their helmets but have the helmets so far up on their heads that the shield is more a protector of their Hair line then it is of their eyes... then again 16yr olds going through puberty just descovering girls... maybe they need to protect their hairlines a bit more than adults.

QUOTE (skacore @ November 3, 2009 - 12:21PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If a 16 year old can't learn to play contact hockey with 15-20 year olds, how is he going to adjust to play in the NHL in a couple of years against 25-30 year olds?

i do agree with this.... sometimes you just have to learn the hard way... in a few short years that 16yr old will go from being the top of the pile to low end of much older and "bigger boys"

They are in the OHL trying to make it to pros and knowing they are playing against teams with high NHL draft picks on them.... They know the risks.

Then again those that can't learn to play in the 15-20yr old bracket... probably WON'T have to worry about the "big kids" in the NHL...

Edited by OsGOD, 03 November 2009 - 12:26 PM.




Just one chance is all i ever wanted...just one time i'd like to win the game...from now on i'll take the chance if i can have it...just one just one

#95 Doggy

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 12:39 PM

QUOTE (OsGOD @ November 3, 2009 - 12:21PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
maybe they should mandate that all kiddies (until they can protect themselves) wear full faceshields and keep their helmets tight on their heads... that should be a rule too.

Definitely. Isn't that a rule in other leagues or for international comps with juniors?
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#96 jollymania

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 01:01 PM

Could be a charge (number of strides), but other wise a legal hit

Edited by jollymania, 03 November 2009 - 01:01 PM.

"I assure you the hits along the boards he(Aaron Downey) constantly threw SEVERAL TIMES EVERY SHIFT were far more damaging hits that what Kronwall throws."
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#97 jollymania

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 01:02 PM

QUOTE (Doggy @ November 3, 2009 - 12:39PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Definitely. Isn't that a rule in other leagues or for international comps with juniors?

full face shields are a bad idea in any major junior level, look at the disrespect in NCAA
"I assure you the hits along the boards he(Aaron Downey) constantly threw SEVERAL TIMES EVERY SHIFT were far more damaging hits that what Kronwall throws."
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#98 Carman

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 01:03 PM

QUOTE (jollymania @ November 3, 2009 - 02:02PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
full face shields are a bad idea in any major junior level, look at the disrespect in NCAA


I agree, older kids(16+) with a full cage can feel even more invincible out there and start developing bad habits.

#99 Yzerfan1999

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 01:04 PM

QUOTE (Doggy @ November 2, 2009 - 08:53PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
He's a 16 year old kid. He'll learn not to do that again, that's for sure.



Wow, tough love here on LGW.

The truth is though, as it always is - if this happened to a Wings player, you would all be calling for a year long suspension. Since its not, you guys all fall into the 'tough old time hockey guy mode' and call it a clean hit, and of course it was Fanelli's fault for putting himself in that position. It was CLEARLY boarding, hitting from behind, AND a head shot, not to mention he took about 5 strides from the blue line to make that hit. The kids skull is fractured, broken orbital bone, and a huge facial laceration. The kid may never play again, let alone want to play again. Liambus said himself that he was shaken up by the hit, and he shouldn't have done it.

Fanelli's mother and father were in the stands watching the game. Went Fanelli got hit, his mother fainted and had to be revived by paramedics.

Edited by Yzerfan1999, 03 November 2009 - 01:05 PM.

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#100 Doc Holiday

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 01:13 PM

QUOTE (Yzerfan1999 @ November 3, 2009 - 01:04PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Wow, tough love here on LGW.

The truth is though, as it always is - if this happened to a Wings player, you would all be calling for a year long suspension. Since its not, you guys all fall into the 'tough old time hockey guy mode' and call it a clean hit, and of course it was Fanelli's fault for putting himself in that position.


When you look at the player coming at you TWICE, it is your own fault for turning your back on him when he is literally inches from hitting you.

QUOTE (Yzerfan1999 @ November 3, 2009 - 01:04PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It was CLEARLY boarding, hitting from behind, AND a head shot, not to mention he took about 5 strides from the blue line to make that hit.


No, no, and no. Yes he took some strides but normally when you enter the zone you skate into the zone. Not a charge from my point of view however that is arguable.

QUOTE (Yzerfan1999 @ November 3, 2009 - 01:04PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The kids skull is fractured, broken orbital bone, and a huge facial laceration. The kid may never play again, let alone want to play again. Liambus said himself that he was shaken up by the hit, and he shouldn't have done it.


Of course he is shaken up. He made a hit that possibly ended another players career. However the emotions involved don't have any bearing on if a hit is dirty. None. And neither does the fact his own parents were at the game. That just means it is a really s***ty situation that everyone wishes didn't happen.






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