Sorry, Another Crosby Complaint

[Echolalia 2,961]

sounds to me like your issues are 100% with the NHL and 0% with Crosby

Yeah I pretty much just said that but whatever, an analysis of the obvious and clearly-stated is still an analysis I guess. But you still ignored a couple questions that I posed to you at the end, and I'm interested in hearing your response, or anyone's for that matter.

[Dan Bylsma 27]

Yeah I pretty much just said that but whatever, an analysis of the obvious and clearly-stated is still an analysis I guess. But you still ignored a couple questions that I posed to you at the end, and I'm interested in hearing your response, or anyone's for that matter.

I haven't seen the play. I'll concede the point to you,it's not important.If someone else made a similar play then yes he should get just as much credit.But once again all of this is not Crosby's fault.

[Echolalia 2,961]

I haven't seen the play. I'll concede the point to you,it's not important.If someone else made a similar play then yes he should get just as much credit.But once again all of this is not Crosby's fault.

Once again, I never said it was Crosby's fault.

[Dan Bylsma 27]

Once again, I never said it was Crosby's fault.

ok,fair enough,you said in an earlier post in this thread "Most of us aren't (and haven't been) taking issue with Crosby himself, at least when it comes to skill."

May I ask what issues you have with him ? Keep in mind the young age when he broke into the league and where's he at now in his career. Do you think he's that same person he was when he was a rookie and how long should you hold on to that strong dislike as his career progresses and he matures more ?

[MannyK 16]

'greed. Not that it's Crosby's fault, though.

Great play.

most reasons people hate Crosby are not really his fault. It's mainly Bettman/media/Canadians.

that, and he raised the Stanley Cup at the Joe

and yes, I agree. all the ridiculous coverage over his save his sickening.... ugh

[Echolalia 2,961]

ok,fair enough,you said in an earlier post in this thread "Most of us aren't (and haven't been) taking issue with Crosby himself, at least when it comes to skill."

May I ask what issues you have with him ? Keep in mind the young age when he broke into the league and where's he at now in his career. Do you think he's that same person he was when he was a rookie and how long should you hold on to that strong dislike as his career progresses and he matures more ?

The issues that I have with Crosby stem from his sportsmanship. He's willing to do more than most to sell a call, and he's embarrassing himself with some of the dives he's attempted. Its especially flattering coming from a captain. He also complains to the refs to an unparalleled degree, at least from what I've seen (but I don't watch Pens games religiously, so maybe I have an unequal sample size). I fully appreciate the necessity to talk to the refs, at the very least to let them know what's going on for future reference, but I'm almost wondering whether Sid's reputation for complaining is working against him because the refs have become so desensitized to it. He's also developed a reputation for being a cheap-shot artist as I'm sure you've noticed in a couple fights he has been in. Actually I was a bit disappointed in his last scrum because it was broken up so fast. He almost had an opportunity to redeem himself. But his cheap-shots aren't limited to fights. I've seen him slash people with intent to injure, spear people as they skate away, etc.

Perhaps much of this has to do with maturity. Like you said, he entered the league as a boy and was still developing both physically and mentally. I can appreciate that and don't hold his earlier days against him. He was hot-headed and wanted whats best for the team and didn't know any better way to express that. But now he's a captain and he needs to keep his cool more than anyone else on the team. If he blows up and starts cheap-shotting and complaining, what example is that setting for everyone else? He had 9 penalty minutes against Minnesota a couple nights ago, which tells me he still gets hot way too easy, and that characteristic can easily cost a team two points (in fact a quick calculation shows he's on his way to a 147 penalty minute year). He's an adult now and has had plenty of time in this league to adapt. He needs to start acting like an adult.

And its not that I have a "strong dislike" for him like you claim. A lot of players are that way, and for the most part I have about the same amount of respect for each of them. Besides, he's your team's captain, not mine. I don't have to deal with that immaturity on a regular basis, but nhl.com still allows me to see his magic.

Edited November 5, 2009 by Echolalia

[Guest ZetterbergFourty]

Just actually watching that footage of Crosby the goalie.. why is this thread even here? A pylon like McCabe or somebody could have pulled that off.

Edit: Sorry, Another Crosby Bashing Thread

[thedisappearer 291]

I'd make a snarky comment about Crosby, but I'm afraid he may start punching me in my ass.

[BruiseBrother 2]

He's a great player, but Ovie and Malkin have him on offense, Dats and Z have him on the D. Pound for pound, Dats is the best in league i.e. most complete player. Were's the love Gary?

[cboth686 0]

crosbys wrist shot blows...

that's all i have to say

[Guest ZetterbergFourty]

crosbys wrist shot blows...

that's all i have to say

His wrist shot is nothing compared to his ass punch abilities.

[Dan Bylsma 27]

The issues that I have with Crosby stem from his sportsmanship. He's willing to do more than most to sell a call, and he's embarrassing himself with some of the dives he's attempted. Its especially flattering coming from a captain. He also complains to the refs to an unparalleled degree, at least from what I've seen (but I don't watch Pens games religiously, so maybe I have an unequal sample size). I fully appreciate the necessity to talk to the refs, at the very least to let them know what's going on for future reference, but I'm almost wondering whether Sid's reputation for complaining is working against him because the refs have become so desensitized to it. He's also developed a reputation for being a cheap-shot artist as I'm sure you've noticed in a couple fights he has been in. Actually I was a bit disappointed in his last scrum because it was broken up so fast. He almost had an opportunity to redeem himself. But his cheap-shots aren't limited to fights. I've seen him slash people with intent to injure, spear people as they skate away, etc.

Perhaps much of this has to do with maturity. Like you said, he entered the league as a boy and was still developing both physically and mentally. I can appreciate that and don't hold his earlier days against him. He was hot-headed and wanted whats best for the team and didn't know any better way to express that. But now he's a captain and he needs to keep his cool more than anyone else on the team. If he blows up and starts cheap-shotting and complaining, what example is that setting for everyone else? He had 9 penalty minutes against Minnesota a couple nights ago, which tells me he still gets hot way too easy, and that characteristic can easily cost a team two points (in fact a quick calculation shows he's on his way to a 147 penalty minute year). He's an adult now and has had plenty of time in this league to adapt. He needs to start acting like an adult.

And its not that I have a "strong dislike" for him like you claim. A lot of players are that way, and for the most part I have about the same amount of respect for each of them. Besides, he's your team's captain, not mine. I don't have to deal with that immaturity on a regular basis, but nhl.com still allows me to see his magic.

ok thanks Echolalia,your reply was very insightful, rational and even enlightening.This is why I come to this forum to get ideas from the bad guys about our good guys ;-)

[Echolalia 2,961]

ok thanks Echolalia,your reply was very insightful, rational and even enlightening.This is why I come to this forum to get ideas from the bad guys about our good guys ;-)

No problem. I actually tried to join a pens forum a while back, but I'm still waiting to get the admins approval.

[hooon 1,089]

I understand its not crosby's fault for the publicity... but seriously that is one of the most unimpressive highlights ive ever seen. A completely routine play that happens weekly in the NHL, and can be done by any player. He didnt even move to make a save, he just lied down BEFORE the shot was taken, and the puck happened to hit him.

I understand some posters frustration with much of the overblown crosby hate, but this is a little ridiculous. If they are going to devote the site to crosby for a play he did, at least do it for a play that is special in some way (he has many highlight plays).

Also, to the pens fans:

I'm not sure why you are calling for all of us to rationalize our dislike for crosby. He is an opponent of our team, we have had two heated series against him the past two years, etc. I would think its pretty obvious why people dont like him, along with the compendium of reasons noted by others.

Yes some of the posts in this thread indicate some jealousy or irrational hatred towards him, but you seem to forget that this is a forum for the detroit red wings. I'm tired of the resident pens fans always getting so offfended and affronted when someone mentions they dislike crosby, cracks a crosby joke, etc. There are pens forums where this doesnt take place. It might behoove you to look into them.

[Carman 387]

I see this thread still going strong after my day at work. Hope you all feel better about your lives by calling a 22 year old NHL superstar a girl on a fan forum for the 500th time.

Btw he isn't the only one to dive, and we actually have a bigger diver on our team(Franzen). He isn't the only one to complain or whine about refs, I guarantee every single one of us complain about them as well and it's not even our career involved in the game. Not to mention hearing Babcock's disagreements with them in post games about goalies interferences as well. He isn't the only player that slashes or spears. Nothing he does negatively is out of the ordinary, the only thing that is out of the ordinary is the coverage of the NHL on him and I agree, but that's certainly not his fault.

I just don't understand the absolutely childish remarks that posters go to in insulting someone they have never had a conversation with.

If you don't like him that's fine, but don't get all mad when I post saying positive things about him.

Just my 2 cents.

[Hack & Whack Rule! 160]

I can't stand all the attention Crosby gets. Is it warranted? Probably not. The dude has skills and nobody can deny it. The fact remains that he is the poster boy for the new NHL. They are going to promote Crosby for a long time to come. It would be nice if they spread some of the spotlight around, but they aren't going to. Get over it if you want to, don't get over it if you don't want to. Personally, when I see Crosby getting shoved in my face, my face looks somewhere else.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

Opinions aside, one cannot deny he made a game saving stop on Neids at the end of last night.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Crosby smells.

Sorry, trash talking isn't part of my forte.

*shrugs*

[RedWings Gone Wild 6]

Opinions aside, one cannot deny he made a game saving stop on Neids at the end of last night.

Actually, if you look closely, it was the inertia of the puck flying towards the net in an elliptical motion, coupled with Fluery blowing as hard as he could in the direction of the puck, that it actually came to a halt millimeters in front of Crosby.. but NHL.com didn't bother to look into the story and just thought it would be easier and more marketable to claim Crosby stopped it.

[RusDRW 155]

Have no problems with Crosby as a player. He is great at playing hockey... with some obvious mental problems though. However, there are more than one star in this league (Malkin, Ovechkin, Datsyk, Thornton, Iginla)... there are players (not many) who are more "complete" than Crosby (Zetterberg, Datsyk)... there are players who are better in one certain component (Hemsky, Datsyk, Malkin in stickhandling, Semin, Nash, Kovalchuk in shooting, St.Loius in skating, Colton Orr in fighting), there are better leaders (Morrow, Iginla). Nothing is obvious regarding the best player in this league and I wouldn't like NHL to routinely tell me who is the one. From this perspective I have problems with NHL. I also have problems with fans of Crosby who _DO_NOT_ACCEPT_COMPROMISES. All they want to hear in each and every post is that he is _THE_BEST_PLAYER now. He is one of them but not the only one. Wondering how long it will take for people to start calling him as the best player of all time? 1 more season, 2 more seasons? I guess some of you are ready to take another step in this direction...

[hak 21]

Have anyone of you seen the south park episode when wall-mart moves into town? People in south park hate the consequenses of what the big supermarket brings but they still shop there. They whine about it but they still shop there. They try to find the "heart" of the corporation so they can destroy it only to find out the heart is themselves - the consumers. See where im going with this? If you start threads and whine parties about crosby you feed the hype and product.. If you really are sick of Crosby and want to take away focus from him you should just ignore it/him and certainly not make threads about him!

What do you think about this?

[zettie85 106]

Have anyone of you seen the south park episode when wall-mart moves into town? People in south park hate the consequenses of what the big supermarket brings but they still shop there. They whine about it but they still shop there. They try to find the "heart" of the corporation so they can destroy it only to find out the heart is themselves - the consumers. See where im going with this? If you start threads and whine parties about crosby you feed the hype and product.. If you really are sick of Crosby and want to take away focus from him you should just ignore it/him and certainly not make threads about him!

What do you think about this?

I think people like to have some Crosby in their life.

[esteef 2,679]

I'd make a snarky comment about Crosby, but I'm afraid he may start punching me in my ass.

[Echolalia 2,961]

I see this thread still going strong after my day at work. Hope you all feel better about your lives by calling a 22 year old NHL superstar a girl on a fan forum for the 500th time.

Btw he isn't the only one to dive, and we actually have a bigger diver on our team(Franzen). He isn't the only one to complain or whine about refs, I guarantee every single one of us complain about them as well and it's not even our career involved in the game. Not to mention hearing Babcock's disagreements with them in post games about goalies interferences as well. He isn't the only player that slashes or spears. Nothing he does negatively is out of the ordinary, the only thing that is out of the ordinary is the coverage of the NHL on him and I agree, but that's certainly not his fault.

I just don't understand the absolutely childish remarks that posters go to in insulting someone they have never had a conversation with.

If you don't like him that's fine, but don't get all mad when I post saying positive things about him.

Just my 2 cents.

I feel like the brunt of this post was aimed at me because the points that you tackle in your second paragraph follow eerily close to what I discussed, in the order I discussed it. I would like to respond by agreeing that he isn't the only one to dive or complain or whine or slash or spear, but the frequency in which many of these events happen is out of the ordinary, especially for a captain. I do expect occasional diving, occasional complaining, occasional whining, occasional cheap-shots, that's all fine and dandy and part of the game and its easy to put up with it when its relatively uncommon. Unfortunately almost every single game that I have witnessed Crosby participate in includes a plethora of the above in any combination. Yes Franzen dives like a ***** and I hate that about him, but because its one of a few personality flaws and I don't see him trying to sell a dive every game he's in its something that I can live with. Similarly, Iginla has bitched to the ref about a non-call or some other issue, but the majority of the games that I've watched him in he typically isn't breathing down the refs' back every 10 minutes. This is what irks me personally about Crosby, and I'm fairly confident that all of these issues stem from two traits pertaining to his personality: his "ultra-competitiveness" do-anything attitude that drives him to do whatever it takes to win a game, and his hot head which causes him to lose any self-control and lash out on a fairly regular basis. But sure, a lot of other players have issues too, and some players like Sean Avery go way overboard with their immaturity, but because Crosby is captain of a now Stanley Cup winning team and has had plenty of time to establish solid footing in this league I feel that I am valid in holding him to a slightly higher bar than your typical Sean Avery and hope that he acts more maturely. I don't think there's anything childish about my expectations at all.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Go to NHL.com. Serously. Sid makes a save, which let's face it is always cool, but not unheard of. Zetterberg and Lidstrom are known for doing this from time to time. Usually it merits a highlight reel playback or something.

What does NHL.com do? Not only is the headline story about it, but they have five freaking extra stories about his goaltending roots, learning from Fleury, two videos of Sid discussing the play and the video of the save itself. What the hell?

It's cool, yes, but do we need to have stories digging into his psyche to tell us how he's always been able to play every position at the highest level?

Sorry, bitchfest over.

Your complaint is with the NHL, not Crosby. He didn't force them to make them the headline story.

I agree it gets really, really old, and is a disservice to a lot of great players in the league.