donfishmaster 62 Report post Posted November 6, 2009 I've tried to watch every game this season, but last night at the Wings/Carp game at the Joe I made a point of focusing on Bertuzzi and Lebda whenever they were on the ice. Bert works his ass off, is just barely missing on lots of goals and assists, and is a real asset given his price. Lebda, God bless him, got out-hustled frequently, made rookie decisions that resulted in turn-overs, and appeared to my non-NHL coaches' eyes to be out of position quite often. He really needs to go...I know there's been Maltby/Ericcson/Meech haters on here before, but Lebda is the biggest disappointment so far this season and Bert has been the biggest positive surprise (IMHO.) I was curious if other fans are seeing the same thing. P.S. Ericcson needs to not fall down. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Drake_Marcus 890 Report post Posted November 6, 2009 I've tried to watch every game this season, but last night at the Wings/Carp game at the Joe I made a point of focusing on Bertuzzi and Lebda whenever they were on the ice. Bert works his ass off, is just barely missing on lots of goals and assists, and is a real asset given his price. Lebda, God bless him, got out-hustled frequently, made rookie decisions that resulted in turn-overs, and appeared to my non-NHL coaches' eyes to be out of position quite often. He really needs to go...I know there's been Maltby/Ericcson/Meech haters on here before, but Lebda is the biggest disappointment so far this season and Bert has been the biggest positive surprise (IMHO.) I was curious if other fans are seeing the same thing. P.S. Ericcson needs to not fall down. Ericsson, Abdelkader, Helm and Leino all get passes on making rookie mistakes this year since they're rookies. Lebda's technically an NHL veteran, so he deserves to get razzed for making rookie mistakes. Hell, Meech still hasn't played much in the NHL so I can forgive him too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zettie85 106 Report post Posted November 6, 2009 It seems to be only me that notices but Lebda is outplaying Rafalski defensively. My buddy is a huge Rafalski fan and I told him to watch him lastnight and he finally noticed too. PP specialist for 6 mil is ridiculous. Lebda gives it 100% and goes into the corners on D willing. He's a very cheap filler player who plays his ass off for us. He has little talent but he hasn't been our worst D-man this year and he's played well in the last 3 games. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toby91_ca 620 Report post Posted November 6, 2009 Ericsson, Abdelkader, Helm and Leino all get passes on making rookie mistakes this year since they're rookies. Lebda's technically an NHL veteran, so he deserves to get razzed for making rookie mistakes. Hell, Meech still hasn't played much in the NHL so I can forgive him too. Pretty sure Ericsson and Helm are not rookies. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Real1 2 Report post Posted November 6, 2009 Ericsson, Abdelkader, Helm and Leino all get passes on making rookie mistakes this year since they're rookies. Lebda's technically an NHL veteran, so he deserves to get razzed for making rookie mistakes. Hell, Meech still hasn't played much in the NHL so I can forgive him too. Is Helm still a rookie? He has played in and out (regular season) the past 2 years and played most of the playoff games the last 2 years. I think he is not a rookie anymore. Pardon me if there is a minimum requirement that make a rookie a veteran, I just haven't heard of one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Mule 0 Report post Posted November 6, 2009 Is Helm still a rookie? He has played in and out (regular season) the past 2 years and played most of the playoff games the last 2 years. I think he is not a rookie anymore. Pardon me if there is a minimum requirement that make a rookie a veteran, I just haven't heard of one. 1) The roller coaster in your avatar is so much fun. 2) Helm and Ericsson do not qualify as rookies. Leino, Abdelkader, and Howard do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zettie85 106 Report post Posted November 6, 2009 Is Helm still a rookie? He has played in and out (regular season) the past 2 years and played most of the playoff games the last 2 years. I think he is not a rookie anymore. Pardon me if there is a minimum requirement that make a rookie a veteran, I just haven't heard of one. I believe you have to play 30 games to make it your rookie year. I could be wrong on the number of games though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Donaldjr2448 43 Report post Posted November 6, 2009 I may be wrong on this, but I believe that a player must play 82 regular season games to get his rookie status taken away, I think that is per the NHLPA! I have been disappointed in Rafalski as well. He is making waaaaaaaaaay too much for the way he is playing. But hey, its a long season, so maybe he is just struggling, he is been a part of our sucess over the last couple of years so I am willing to let him work through it! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C-TownWing 0 Report post Posted November 6, 2009 Nice to see someone plug Bert, I thought he had an excellent game last night. Almost scored on a move that looked like he brought in on a time machine, and he's putting in the work on the other end too, which was always the knock on him. Honestly, I'd like to see more of Janik, he had a really strong game the other night. The only dilemma is deciding whether Lebda or E is pissing me off more right now. Trying to give E a pass, but it's getting harder and harder every game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zettie85 106 Report post Posted November 6, 2009 Rookie Qualifications To be considered a rookie, a player must not have played in 25 or more NHL games in any preceding seasons, nor in six or more NHL games in each of any two preceding seasons. Any player at least 26 years of age (by September 15th of that season) is not considered a rookie. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ashenhigh 9 Report post Posted November 6, 2009 Honestly? Lebda sucks and skates like a square. He also has NO BUSINESS trying to come into the offensive zone with the puck during his shifts either. Waste of space, I would rather have Meech out there. Where is my Lillypad to save us? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
uk_redwing 495 Report post Posted November 6, 2009 Id prefer Janik instead of Lebda. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Draperfan 104 Report post Posted November 6, 2009 Bertuzzi sucks,try counting how many times he gives the puck away.Keep an eye on him and watch how much he floats while his teammates are in the corner fighting for the puck,count how many hits he makes(none). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
uk_redwing 495 Report post Posted November 6, 2009 One thing I will say about Bertuzzi is when we signed him Holland said he Bertuzzi added extra grit and some physicality. Bertuzzi has been playing like a ******* sponge. Has someone not told him he's one of the biggest players in the NHL? Does he know hockey is a contact sport? Someone should let him know. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zettie85 106 Report post Posted November 6, 2009 He makes 850 000. He's worth that. He's been decent the last 3 games. Him jumping in the rush is not ideal but one thing he does have is speed. If him and Janik could split time I would be happy but his Cap hit is invisible to us and he's making less then a regular 28 year old D man would make. He does what he's supposed to in my opinion. He rushes up dumps it in and eats minutes until we can get our top 4 guys back on the ice. Geting pinned in our zone is not something we can solely blame on Lebda. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zettie85 106 Report post Posted November 6, 2009 One thing I will say about Bertuzzi is when we signed him Holland said he Bertuzzi added extra grit and some physicality. Bertuzzi has been playing like a ******* sponge. Has someone not told him he's one of the biggest players in the NHL? Does he know hockey is a contact sport? Someone should let him know. He has gotten soft and timid since the accident. If Holland was addin him for grit he obviously couldn't have done the research on him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C-TownWing 0 Report post Posted November 6, 2009 Bertuzzi sucks,try counting how many times he gives the puck away.Keep an eye on him and watch how much he floats while his teammates are in the corner fighting for the puck,count how many hits he makes(none). He does turn it over a lot, I'll give you that. I still say if you compare him to realistic expectations and not to himself from 8 years ago he's doing pretty well. Like someone else said, he hasn't been the type of guy who lays people out regularly in a while. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sureWhyNot 19 Report post Posted November 6, 2009 (edited) It seems to be only me that notices but Lebda is outplaying Rafalski defensively. My buddy is a huge Rafalski fan and I told him to watch him lastnight and he finally noticed too. PP specialist for 6 mil is ridiculous. Lebda gives it 100% and goes into the corners on D willing. He's a very cheap filler player who plays his ass off for us. He has little talent but he hasn't been our worst D-man this year and he's played well in the last 3 games. I cannot wrap my head around all the Rafalski hate around here - has he made some mistakes? Sure, but then again the entire team made mistakes the first handful of games. Rafalski and Lebda are not even comparable to one another: Lebda: 1 goal - 0 assists - 1 point - (+/-) -2 - 10 PM - Avg. Time on Ice: 12:46 Rafalski: 1 goal - 5 assists - 6 points - (+/-) Even - 2 PM - Avg. Time on Ice: 22:37 The argument that Lebda has been better then Rafalski is hare brained to say the least - and the overall argument that Rafalski has been playing terrible is nothing more then a fallacy. As for Bertuzzi - the OP is correct. I think Bertuzzi has been great thus far, he's playing a lot of minutes, and creating a lot of chances. As for his turnovers - this is something that he undoubtedly has to work on, but I wouldn't say it is a nightmare of a problem. Giveaways: Niklas Kronwall (15) , Stuart (14), Bertuzzi (14), Ericsson (13), Lidstrom (12), Zetterberg (10), Dats (8). He def. has to work on that but so far I think his pluses definitely outweigh the negatives. Edited November 6, 2009 by sureWhyNot Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zettie85 106 Report post Posted November 6, 2009 (edited) I cannot wrap my head around all the Rafalski hate around here - has he made some mistakes? Sure, but then again the entire team made mistakes the first handful of games. Rafalski and Lebda are not even comparable to one another: Lebda: 1 goal - 0 assists - 1 point - (+/-) -2 - 10 PM - Avg. Time on Ice: 12:46 Rafalski: 1 goal - 5 assists - 6 points - (+/-) Even - 2 PM - Avg. Time on Ice: 22:37 The argument that Lebda has been better then Rafalski is hare brained to say the least - and the overall argument that Rafalski has been playing terrible is nothing more then a fallacy. My argument is that you get the same defencive play out of Lebda ($850 000) theat you do out of Rafalski ($6 000 000). People feel fine to hate on Lebda though, when he really hasn't played horrible. Rafalski has been a defensive liability. He may not be big but he let's the forechecker go in to the corner and get the puck even if he could win the race to the puck. He will go after him then but by that time the guy has already dished it off. One reason we get pinned in our own zone so much is because he doesn't go into the corners. He allows them to set up. I'm not hating on his offencive abilities at all. For what he contributes now he makes way to much. Edited November 6, 2009 by zettie85 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
droz 5 Report post Posted November 6, 2009 He has gotten soft and timid since the accident. If Holland was addin him for grit he obviously couldn't have done the research on him. I think he would play a more physical game if we didn't have the injuries we do. Right now we need goals badly and it seems Bert is focused on offense, unfortunately he just can't get anything to go in. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Miss Wing Queen 154 Report post Posted November 6, 2009 I was at the game last night, and I also watched Lebda and Bert. Bert's biggest problem is that he holds onto the puck for too long. There were so many instances where he should have shot the puck when he was in front of the goal but instead held onto it and skated around the back side of the net looking to pass it to somebody, or by time he did shoot it, the angle was so bad that it was impossible to get a good shot on goal. As for Lebda, he's soft when it comes to defensemen and also often is involved in the rush wanting to score. Some times it is good because he has shot some of the rebounds that came back to the point or those that have squirted loose from the corners. However, on the goal that the Sharks scored, E was at center, I believe, and Lebda was all the way up at the net, and when the turnover occured, E was left by himself to stop the offense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jollymania 162 Report post Posted November 6, 2009 Lebda is inconsistent, Bertuzzi makes horrible passes in his own zone and can't hit the twine, those are the main problems for these 2. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
titanium2 867 Report post Posted November 6, 2009 Bertuzzi sucks,try counting how many times he gives the puck away.Keep an eye on him and watch how much he floats while his teammates are in the corner fighting for the puck,count how many hits he makes(none). Yeah. He also did that thing to Moore. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Draperfan 104 Report post Posted November 8, 2009 Yeah. He also did that thing to Moore. that too Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
