Report: Toews, Kane and Keith close to extensions

[mmamolo 287]

Yep, that's exactly what I said in the post after yours. The Hossa contract is a joke (and by extension, so are the Zetterberg and Franzen deals, to a lesser degree). I don't even know why the league has a hard salary cap if they're going to allow this to go on. The 24-year, $80 million deal I outlined above is not fundamentally different from what was done with Hossa, Zetterberg, or Franzen--it's just a matter of degree. But the NHL has not stepped in yet to define what that upper boundary of absurdity should be.

Although I do agree with what you’re saying, to a point, I think the main difference between the Franzen/Zetterberg deals and the Hossa deal is when the contract ends. Both Franzen and Zetterberg’s deals end at the 40 year mark, which it is not inconceivable for a player to play in the NHL until he is 40. Hossa’s deal extends until he is 42. On top of that he only makes $1M/year in years 9 -12 (from age 38-42). In today’s league there are very few players who play until the age of 42 so I think the thinking is that it is far more reasonable to imagine Hossa retiring before his contract is up than it is for Franzen or Zetterberg and since all these deals were signed before each player has turned 35 if they were to retire their cap hits are washed off the board.

Although it’s not a written rule I have to believe the ‘upper boundary of absurdity’ has to be what to an age where a reasonable person would think a career could extend to. All that being said, I also tend to think it’s a different situation when signing an established player of the age of 28-30 to a long term contract (10-12 year) compared to signing 21 year olds (Kane and Toews) to career contracts. The only way contracts like this would benefit the Hawks and Kane and Toews would be to sign deals that would extend until they are at or just over expected retirement ages (approximately 28-40). Therefore, the Hawks would have to sign these guys to say 19-20 year deals with cap hits of say 4M. Problem with that is since the duration is so lengthy even if you front load the contracts you need to have an extended period at the end of low salaries to offset the high early and medium years. It’s all weighted averages. It’s not so easy to do when you have so many years of high salaries.

Simply put, I don’t think contracts like Franzen’s, Zetterberg’s, Pronger’s, and Hossa’s will really help the Hawks in this case.

[Tommy_Like_Wingy 25]

Like I said point out anything I missed!

Haha, I wasn't so much pointing out the mistake. I just actually want to know where the other $10 million is supposed to be.

[hillbillywingsfan 792]

Haha, I wasn't so much pointing out the mistake. I just actually want to know where the other $10 million is supposed to be.

does tommy need a hug?

fat guy in a little coat...hahahaha i love that movie.

[FIBS 35]

So he is innocent, because the case never made it to court?

Or because he is a Hawk, the link I posted he apologizes for his behavior and how it made his family look, not that he was innocent and the facts will be out.

He admitted responsibility by apologizing, if he didn't do it, don't apologize.

Don't get me wrong this isn't the Bell situation of a couple of years ago, but still very disappointing!

Think what you want.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

In Opie's defense, the Blackhawks have $21.7 million locked up in 8 forwards, $16 million locked up in 4 forwards and $5.625 locked up in Huet. That takes up $43.391 million, which leaves $13.4 million remaining next year *given that the cap doesn't go down.* and the need for 5 more forwards, 3 more defensemen and another goalie (9 total players).

If those three were to take up the remaining space the average cap hit for each of them would only be $4.46 million (which is simply too light for players of that calibre).

Now lets just say it does happen and they sign for the remainder, that would mean they'd still need to 3 more forwards, 2 more defenseman and a goalie (6 total players) while they have zero cash to spend. No one is foolish enough to take Campbell's ridiculous contract off Chicago's hands and the same goes for Huet.

Opie is correct, major moves need to happen in order for them to sign all three.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Think what you want.

I know this was directed at Opie, but you can't tell me you honestly believe Kane is innocent. That would take homerism to an entirely different level.

[Carman 387]

I hope they keep all of them. Then they surely won't have any leadership or be a legitimate Stanley Cup contender. Hope they all like playing golf together for the next 10-15 years.

Edited November 17, 2009 by Carman

[FIBS 35]

I know this was directed at Opie, but you can't tell me you honestly believe Kane is innocent. That would take homerism to an entirely different level.

All I'm saying is you can't rip on somebody when you don't know the full story. Sure Kane said he was sorry but he didn't say what he was sorry for. I know he apologized at some point for being in the wrong situation. Just keep in mind that no one knows what happened. You can't say he definitely struck the cabbie. Whatever, he's a beast right now, that's all that matters.

[b-random 0]

I guess it's possible that all three sign ridiculous hometown discounts, which would pretty much leave all of us Red Wings fans standing with our mouths open.

I can see them locking up Keith longterm (w/ a Hossa-esque deal) and signing Toews and Kane to like 4 mil a year deals for like 3-5 years. So (in their minds) they can have a few years with the same core of players, have a few chances at a cup, then reevaluate them in 4 years when they are looking for their BIG contracts.

Edited November 17, 2009 by b-random

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

All I'm saying is you can't rip on somebody when you don't know the full story. Sure Kane said he was sorry but he didn't say what he was sorry for. I know he apologized at some point for being in the wrong situation. Just keep in mind that no one knows what happened. You can't say he definitely struck the cabbie. Whatever, he's a beast right now, that's all that matters.

That's ridiculous. Are you saying we shouldn't rip OJ Simpson because we don't know the full details of his incidents? Bill Clinton for the Lewinski debacle? These people along with Kane all did something wrong and they got caught. 28 other NHL teams' fans are ripping him no differently than any Wings fan has. The only ones defending are complete Blackhawks Homers. The fact of the matter is even a solid amount of Blackhawks fans will tell you he was stupid and got in trouble as a result. That's all that matters.

[StevieY9802 6]

I guess it's possible that all three sign ridiculous hometown discounts, which would pretty much leave all of us Red Wings fans standing with our mouths open.

I can see them locking up Keith longterm (w/ a Hossa-esque deal) and signing Toews and Kane to like 4 mil a year deals for like 3-5 years. So (in their minds) they can have a few years with the same core of players, have a few chances at a cup, then reevaluate them in 4 years when they are looking for their BIG contracts.

Even with huge discounts they will have to make a lot of moves to keep under the cap.

[40#1Fan 0]

Kane, Toews, Keith deny signing rumor

November 17, 2009

It’s no secret the Blackhawks want to keep Jonathan Toews, Patrick Kane and Duncan Keith around for a long time, but -- despite recent published reports -- none are signed for next year yet.

``I guess there’s a little bit of a rumor out there,’’ Kane said after practice on Tuesday, ``but it’s between my agent and Stan (Hawks’ general manager Stan Bowman) and the Blackhawks’ organization.’’

Because the NHL’s salary cap might drop for next season Bowman could be facing a big challenge in keeping the nucleus of his promising, young team together. Signing all three stars might be difficult, and the reports of an imminent signing of any of them could be premature.

``I don’t know when it will happen,’’ said Kane. ``Maybe the story got a little blown out of proportion. Who knows what will happen?’’

All three stars, though, said they want to remain with the Hawks.

``There’s no contract, but I like it here and I want to stay here,’’ said Keith. ``It’s a good feeling to be a part of this group. I’d like to be here a long time.’’

``It’d be cool (to stay with the Hawks),’’ said Toews, ``but that’s still something to be determined. I’m not going to lie. It’s exciting to think about, but it’s handled by other people for you. Hopefully the fans want us to stay here a long time, because we do to. We’ll see how it goes.’’

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/hockey/blac...gned-17.article

[Tommy_Like_Wingy 25]

That's ridiculous. Are you saying we shouldn't rip OJ Simpson because we don't know the full details of his incidents? Bill Clinton for the Lewinski debacle? These people along with Kane all did something wrong and they got caught. 28 other NHL teams' fans are ripping him no differently than any Wings fan has. The only ones defending are complete Blackhawks Homers. The fact of the matter is even a solid amount of Blackhawks fans will tell you he was stupid and got in trouble as a result. That's all that matters.

Just playing devil's advocate here but the Simpson case had all evidence pointing towards him being the culprit but due to a technicality he was found not guilty despite that glaring evidence. In Kane's case there is no doubt the cabbie was struck and abused but there's no proof that Patrick Kane was the one doing it. Supposedly his older cousin who was with him was the one who got physical. But once again, that's all hearsay and there was no 'bloody glove' in the taxi proving either way.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Just playing devil's advocate here but the Simpson case had all evidence pointing towards him being the culprit but due to a technicality he was found not guilty despite that glaring evidence. In Kane's case there is no doubt the cabbie was struck and abused but there's no proof that Patrick Kane was the one doing it. Supposedly his older cousin who was with him was the one who got physical. But once again, that's all hearsay and there was no 'bloody glove' in the taxi proving either way.

So that means lets just let Kane off the hook since there was a second person in there with him? Kane didn't deny any wrongdoing, which pretty much leads one to the fair assumption that he and his cousin are both guilty.

No one is denying his hockey talent......you don't need to defend his criminal off-ice actions of that night. No one buys that he was an innocent bystander while his cousin beat the s*** out of the cabbie. If that were the case, why didn't the police report clear his name?

[Yzerman191 37]

Right now the 'Hawks have $43M locked up in 4 defensemen, 9 forwards, and 1 goaltender. Even if you signed Toews, Kane, and Keith to contracts worth $4M a piece, which won't happen, they'll be within a million or two of the salary cap. I just don't see how it is possible. They're in a situation more dire than the 'Wings were last year.

[b-random 0]

Even with huge discounts they will have to make a lot of moves to keep under the cap.

I don't think they'll have a problem moving Sharp, lots of teams need a player like that (including the wings). And I think they'd be stupid to move Byfuglien because that guy is key to their team. I'm sure they are gonna focus on moving Huet, Campell and Sharp but...good luck to ya on the first 2!

Why are you guys talking about Kane's arrest, that's so 3 months ago.

Edited November 17, 2009 by b-random

[StevieY9802 6]

I don't think they'll have a problem moving Sharp, lots of teams need a player like that (including the wings). And I think they'd be stupid to move Byfuglien because that guy is key to their team. I'm sure they are gonna focus on moving Huet, Campell and Sharp but...good luck to ya on the first 2!

Why are you guys talking about Kane's arrest, that's so 3 months ago.

You're right but even signing the big 3 for a combined 12mil, which anything lower than that will be shocking imo, and getting rid of Sharps almost 4mil they will still be around 52mil for 15 players I think??? going to be an interesting offseason for them if they can sign the big 3, well actually interesting even more so if they can't.

[b-random 0]

You're right but even signing the big 3 for a combined 12mil, which anything lower than that will be shocking imo, and getting rid of Sharps almost 4mil they will still be around 52mil for 15 players I think??? going to be an interesting offseason for them if they can sign the big 3, well actually interesting even more so if they can't.

I agree, very interesting either way.

[egroen 384]

This thread needs more:

[Tommy_Like_Wingy 25]

So that means lets just let Kane off the hook since there was a second person in there with him? Kane didn't deny any wrongdoing, which pretty much leads one to the fair assumption that he and his cousin are both guilty.

No one is denying his hockey talent......you don't need to defend his criminal off-ice actions of that night. No one buys that he was an innocent bystander while his cousin beat the s*** out of the cabbie. If that were the case, why didn't the police report clear his name?

I'm not defending his off-ice actions at all. I'm just saying there's no proof that he was the one to assault the driver and make off with the cash. I thought I remember they said the cousin is the one who had the money in his pocket. But the fact alone that Kane was with him is enough to get him into trouble. And of course Kane probably had something to do with it. But unless he struck the guy or grabbed the cash I don't see how arguing with someone is illegal.

And him not denying anything doesn't mean an admission of guilt. He said what his lawyer(s) told him to say.

Edited November 17, 2009 by Tommy_Like_Wingy

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I'm not defending his off-ice actions at all. I'm just saying there's no proof that he was the one to assault the driver and make off with the cash. I thought I remember they said the cousin is the one who had the money in his pocket. But the fact alone that Kane was with him is enough to get him into trouble. And of course Kane probably had something to do with it. But unless he struck the guy or grabbed the cash I don't see how arguing with someone is illegal.

And him not denying anything doesn't mean an admission of guilt. He said what his lawyer(s) told him to say.

He may have never admitted that he struck the cabbie, but he never denied it either. Why do you think that is?

[eva unit zero 271]

Cristobal Huet has a bloated contract. This is well-known. But there is a simple, easy solution to this problem.

Remember how Lou Lamoirello signed Brendan Shanahan to a $1m deal, after training camp placed him on waivers, and then shortly afterwards Shanny became a free agent?

That, in the CBA, works like this. You place a player on unconditional waivers. If no team picks him up, you can then terminate his SPC, or Standard Player Contract.

If Chicago's front office has any sense, they will do this with Huet. If they don't do this, they will at very least try and trade him, and when that fails send him to the minors to get his cap hit off the roster.

So, going without Huet's cap hit for the 2010-11 season, Chicago has the following players currently signed for next year out of those who have played at least one game this season:

F: Hossa, Sharp, Bolland, Versteeg, Byfuglien, Kopecky, Brouwer

D: Campbell, Seabrook, Barker, Sopel

G: none

That totals up to 11 players for just shy of $37m. The Hawks would have about $19.9m in cap space to sign or promote 6 forwards, 3 defensemen, and two goalies.

Let's throw Corey Crawford into the mix. Now the Hawks have a goaltender on the roster and still have $19.1m to spend on 6 forwards, 3 defensemen, and a goalie. If you give Toews, Kane, and Keith a total of $15m, then the Hawks are looking at $4.1m to sign 4 forwards, 2 defensemen, and a goalie.

Now, other than Niklas Hjalmarsson, they would only need bottom six forwards and a seventh defenseman, plus a goalie. That goalie would probably be Antti Niemi, who has been outplaying Huet this season so far. While Hjalmarsson has shown high potential he hasn't really been much more than a #4 defenseman on his better days, and his offense really hasn't been there. But both he and Niemi would cost somewhere between $1m and $2m.

So let's look at this. Assume Hjalmarsson and Niemi total out to $3m, so we're now $1.1 under the cap and needing 4 forwards and 1 defenseman. If these are all $500k guys, they add up to $2.5m, so we need to have that much open space.

This brings us to Brent Sopel. He is a career third-pairing defenseman with a cap hit of $2.333m. Chicago drops him, either via trade or waivers, and frees up that much space. Now we're talking $3.4m available space for 4-2-0. Fills out the roster with $500k guys and leaves cap space. No, there's not a ton of depth unless you get some bargains. But with contracts like Byfuglien and Campbell at the top, what do you really expect?

[egroen 384]

He may have never admitted that he struck the cabbie, but he never denied it either. Why do you think that is?

He *is* the cabbie?

[Tommy_Like_Wingy 25]

He may have never admitted that he struck the cabbie, but he never denied it either. Why do you think that is?

Because that's what his lawyers told him to say.

[Miller Brew 0]

All I'm saying is all the facts of the situation were not made public.

Kane plead guilty. Nothing further needs to be made public.