How are your kids looking?

[zrf 0]

As a Hawk fan I'm curious as to how your young guys (Abdelkader, Ericsson, Leino, Filpulla, etc.) have played this year. I haven't seen a lot of games outside of our own (I wasn't able to watch the 1st contest earlier in the season) and I'd like to get your guys' assessment of their play.

Depending on how some of your studs come back from injury, the recent rash of mangled players may accelerate their development and make you better (than you already would have been) off for the postseason. Despite some of the gloomy proclamations by some pundits on the web, I still consider you guys the team to beat in the West. So consider this one of those "keep your friends close but your enemies closer" kind of things.

Thanks in advance.

[Lidstrom for life 20]

What a friendly post. Ericsson has been fairly solid IMO. He is not without errors, but hey hes a rookie d man so I am pretty happy with him. Abs and Leino have both been up and down but they were two of our better fowards last night against Nashville I thought. And Filpulla is injured...looked good before the injury though, god I miss him.

[zrf 0]

What a friendly post. Ericsson has been fairly solid IMO. He is not without errors, but hey hes a rookie d man so I am pretty happy with him. Abs and Leino have both been up and down but they were two of our better fowards last night against Nashville I thought. And Filpulla is injured...looked good before the injury though, god I miss him.

Unlike SOME trolls, I don't go to other team's message boards to start s***. I find that most fans, outside of the blind homers that every team has, have a very intellegent view of their own team. It's also helpful to get an outsider's opinion of your own players as sometimes your own negative/positive slants on certain players can cloud your judgement.

I was kinda hoping you would say they have all been terrible , but your response is what I expected, more or less.

[Carman 387]

Just curious not trying to be mean or anything. But from your perspective how has Kopecky been?

[RedwingsPwn 0]

Sounds like the name of a thread a pedophile would post haha. jk.

[zrf 0]

Just curious not trying to be mean or anything. But from your perspective how has Kopecky been?

The first few games he played real well, but has been rather invisible since. His peripheries don't look to good, but I don't think he's been that bad. The main thing is he can skate so he doesn't screw up the rest of the team.

I'd liken him to Cam Barker in the sense that (at times) it looks like he should be better than he is but likely never will be (on a somewhat smaller scale tho). At $1.2 he's overpriced, but at least he's not a Matt Walker type failure at forward, which is a pretty high standard of failure by the way

[zrf 0]

Sounds like the name of a thread a pedophile would post haha. jk.

Maybe it was, just well disguised perhaps?

[Carman 387]

Ok thanks for the feedback, haven't gotten the chance to see many Hawk games. Anways for the Wing's.

Ericsson = B Not as good as he played in the playoffs, but is playing really well and eating up valuable minutes(PK/PP included). His production is very impressive for a rookie defenseman and besides a few bonehead plays is one of our strongest defensemen.

Leino = D Very few positives from his game so far in my opinion, we need him to step up much more then he is showing. Production is not what I expected and neither is the effort. He's been up and down the line up and even got sat a couple games. Either he is getting beat up or isn't adjusting to the NHL the way I hoped. He hasn't been awful, but I hold him to higher standards than normal "rookies".

Abdelkader = B+ Really improved his skating, and is really progressing well considering he would still be in the AHL if it weren't for injuries. Producing very well, hitting, and playing sound defensive hockey. Can't find much negative about his game so far this year.

Helm = B+ Fastest guy on the team, hits everything, great PKer, good in the face off circle. Only reason he isn't getting an A is because some defensive blunders and he can improve on passing which is really important in the Red Wing's system.

Jimmy Howard= B- Comes in and is winning games, all you can ask a back-up to do. Let's in some iffy goals, but has stole a few games for us. Hard to judge him with the lack of depth we currently have on defense right now.

Edited November 24, 2009 by Carman

[hooon 1,089]

To me, all of the young guys with the exception of Leino (who really isnt that young), have been right about where I expected them to be. None of them have blown the roof off yet, but I don't think any of us really expected them to. They are learning the game, playing their roles, and overall, I am satisfied.

Leino hasn't produced as much as any of us would have liked, but he still has plenty of time to build chemistry with some of the guys, especially when we get some players back.

Not sure if Eaves and Miller are considered 'kids', but I am quite happy with both signings. Eaves works really hard, and his chances will come. Haven't seen nearly enough of Miller to judge, but hey, that goal the other night was a beauty, and he stepped up at a time where nobody on our team was stepping up, so that is a good sign.

Overall: They are looking as good as I thought they would. No better, no worse.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Abdelkader-- not quite ready to score at this level, but he's young and definitely has a good set of hands. All he needs right now is the confidence... you can definitely see his offensive game blossom when he's confident out there. Physically he's mature and ready to play in the NHL. He's definitely looking like he'll live up to expectations. However, his confidence would best be served by playing the season down in the AHL as their go-to forward. I'm worried this season might mold him into more of a checker instead of letting him blossom to his full potential (which would be a 2nd line winger). If he doesn't put much up in terms of numbers this year we can only hope it won't hurt his offensive development.

Leino-- Confidence is a big issue here. When he believes in himself his hands and hockey sense really shine. This kid has huge potential, he just needs to live up to it. His 5g 4a effort in the 13 game call-up last year created really high expectations for him. Unfortunately he slumped early in this year and has played most of the year in a checker's role. This kid is 100% top six material and doesn't play the kind of game that's conducive to success on the 4th line, so his demotion to the bottom 6 has fed into his lack of confidence which in turn hurts his production. Once he got a sniff of playing on Zetterberg's line it was clear he has the chops to be a top 6 winger. He just needs to get through the NHL transition and play a more consistent game (a common theme with young players). In my opinion his development is looking very similar to Hudler's. I'm thinking he'll have a 25-30 pt season, which is down from my earlier expectations of a 35-45 pt season.

Filppula-- He's looked much more consistent this year. His lack of scoring touch is offset by his great hockey sense and hard working game. He'll definitely be a 2nd line centre on this team for years to come. Don't expect him to be the next Datsyuk, though.

Helm-- Helm's Helm. Great energy, strong defensive game, could compete for the label of 'best skater in the NHL'. His game will never be one that impresses with numbers but he'll impress you everywhere else on the ice. He looks like he'll develop into the new Draper. Physically he's very mature but could use a bit more weight to throw around (as long as it doesn't hurt his speed!).

Ericsson-- He's showing why he projects as a top pairing d-man. Putting up very strong numbers so far this season with 3g 7a 10pts in his first 20 games (all without playing a second on the PP). His defensive game still looks like a rookie's because he's still learning to read plays and make the right decisions when pinching in, moving up for a hit or making a dangerous first pass out of his zone. Like all rookie d-men he'll improve as he gets more games under his belt. His +/- has been hurting a bit due to this as well as having to play with a shaky partner like Lebda who he ends up having to bail out more often than not. The Wings' defensive struggles sure haven't helped him either. Ericsson's struggled on the PK as well, mostly due to his lack of experience reading plays at this level and the rest of the team's defensive struggles sure haven't helped him look good either.

Howard-- Has the skill and technique needed to be a dominant goaltender out there sometimes. He's played a couple of games where he kept the Wings in there the whole time (Vancouver being the best example). But he's also struggled early in the season. Still, in his most recent games he's been very good for a kid with his level of experience. He's showing people why the was considered a blue-chip prospect for the last 4 years.

[EuroTwin 240]

Sounds like the name of a thread a pedophile would post haha. jk.

to the OP: I'm pleased. I like our young players. They make some mistakes, but nothing out of the ordinary for players with their experience. I particuarly proud of Helm and Abs, I think they're going to be fantastic.

[VM1138 1,921]

I think they're all playing well, except for Leino.

Ericsson, like others have already said, has made some big blunders, but they're rookie mistakes. The thing no one has mentioned though is that he usually follows up a blunder with a huge move that saves the day in the same play. Like last night, he passed to the wrong guy and immediately dropped and swung out his stick a ridiculous distance from himself and swept away a pass that would've certainly scored. So you can tell he knows what he's supposed to do. He consistently shows these flashes that explain his lapses as rookie mistakes that he'll more than make up for.

Helm has been about what we expected. He can't score (he's had 3 breakways in the last two games and botched all of them) if he has to move his hands, but his speed and hockey sense forces opponents to make vital mistakes so someone else can score.

Abdelkader started off slow I thuoght but is really kicking into gear. This kid is going to be a legit scorer when his time comes.

Leino has LOOKED good, stylistically, but he's not scoring and not creating much havoc. So he's a disappointment, but a lot of people don't realize it because he's making flashy plays that ultimately end up nowhere. Like the whole team, flash doesn't mean anything if the puck doesn't go in the net.

Eaves has looked really good as well, he's going to fit into this team nicely.

Howard....well...he's trade bait. Anyone who really watches him during games can see he has no rebound control, is terrible at positioning, and his confidence is easily shaken. The confidence thing could simply be because he's a rookie, but as he's older he has less time to adjust and prove he can hang in the NHL. The positioning and rebound control is what will kill him. It takes many goalies a summer or two entirely devoted to those things to really improve, and I'm not sure the Wings will be willing to take a second chance on him next season when funds free up to find someone else.

[jollymania 162]

Abdelkader recently has looked really good, he's getting around 6-7 hits a game it seems and is getting in alot of peoples faces, he will fight soon enough

Edited November 25, 2009 by jollymania

[Drake_Marcus 890]

I think they're all playing well, except for Leino.

Ericsson, like others have already said, has made some big blunders, but they're rookie mistakes. The thing no one has mentioned though is that he usually follows up a blunder with a huge move that saves the day in the same play. Like last night, he passed to the wrong guy and immediately dropped and swung out his stick a ridiculous distance from himself and swept away a pass that would've certainly scored. So you can tell he knows what he's supposed to do. He consistently shows these flashes that explain his lapses as rookie mistakes that he'll more than make up for.

Helm has been about what we expected. He can't score (he's had 3 breakways in the last two games and botched all of them) if he has to move his hands, but his speed and hockey sense forces opponents to make vital mistakes so someone else can score.

Abdelkader started off slow I thuoght but is really kicking into gear. This kid is going to be a legit scorer when his time comes.

Leino has LOOKED good, stylistically, but he's not scoring and not creating much havoc. So he's a disappointment, but a lot of people don't realize it because he's making flashy plays that ultimately end up nowhere. Like the whole team, flash doesn't mean anything if the puck doesn't go in the net.

Eaves has looked really good as well, he's going to fit into this team nicely.

Howard....well...he's trade bait. Anyone who really watches him during games can see he has no rebound control, is terrible at positioning, and his confidence is easily shaken. The confidence thing could simply be because he's a rookie, but as he's older he has less time to adjust and prove he can hang in the NHL. The positioning and rebound control is what will kill him. It takes many goalies a summer or two entirely devoted to those things to really improve, and I'm not sure the Wings will be willing to take a second chance on him next season when funds free up to find someone else.

I have to disagree with you about Howard. There are two Jimmy Howards who play for the Wings:

Jimmy Howard 1: Confident, makes big plays, excellent positioning and good rebound control. When he does let a rebound out he's good at directing it away from danger or to a teammate. Capable of stealing games. Able to shake off a bad goal and make the next save.

Jimmy Howard 2: Easily shaken. Lacks confidence. Not sure where to be in the net and scrambles too much. Poor rebound control sends rebounds right back into the slot and creates dangerous second chances. Prone to letting a deflating goal in.

That's been Howard's problem for years now. He struggled with inconsistency for his entire GR career.

Don't let his age fool you, 25 isn't old for a goaltender entering the NHL. Most goalies are about that age when they finally get their first season long backup job.

Also don't forget that if there's one thing we've seen from Howard it's that he's progressed since his first game this season. Look at his stats so far:

October: 1-2-1 3.26 GAA 0.879 SV%

November: 4-1-0 2.17 GAA 0.916 SV%

So in both months he played 5 games. But look at the difference in his stats. No matter how good the Wings were playing in Nov compared to Oct, the team's PK has sucked just as bad and the team's defensive play certainly hasn't been that different. The only way you can account for the difference in Jimmy's stats is to say Jimmy's played significantly better.

Compare Jimmy's stats to Osgood's month by month:

October: 4-2-2 4.85 GAA 0.889 SV%

November: 2-2-1 2.19 GAA 0.919 SV%

Osgood's improved his GAA and SV% in to nearly identical levels with Jimmy. The biggest difference, however, is that Osgood's W-L record declined, going from 4-4 in October to 2-3 in November. Jimmy managed to improve his W-L from 1-3 to 4-1. That's significant.

Also note that Osgood's been pulled twice so far (both in October) while Jimmy's yet to get the hook.

Overall I think it's clear that Howard's acquitted himself well so far. All we can do is hope his November numbers stay the way they are and carry forward through the rest of the season. He did have a string of continuous starts in November, so it'll be interesting to see if he can stay hot when playing irregular starts once Babcock decides he needs to start giving Ozzy the lion's share of starts to get him back in gear.

Still, at the start of the year did any of us think Howard would be able to take the reins from an injured Ozzy and do so well? I don't think so.

However, in the end, because Larsson's tearing it up in GR right now (and also tore it up last year before being injured and trying to play through the injury only to hurt his stats) and McCollum is nipping at his heals it's clear that Howard is expendable.

If a team offers Holland some excellent young forward or even defensive talent for Howard odds are he'll bite so he can pick a veteran back-up and wait on Larsson's development. However, I'm betting that Holland will want to see Larsson play an NHL game or two before he makes a deal to ship Howard out. On top of that I'm sure Holland will want to let Larsson play through the first half of the season in GR in make sure he doesn't hit another wall due to fatigue.

[Theophany 110]

I agree with pretty much everything Marcus has said. So, yeah.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

I just wanted to give the stats for each of our rookies and give their projected season totals as well. I figure this will be useful to the discussion or at the least it'll be interesting...

Season Stats:

Ericsson

Current: 20gp 3g 7a 10pts -3 22hits 17:06 ATOI

Projected: 80gp 12g 28a 40pts -3 88hits

Notes: 3rd in defensive scoring, 7th in team scoring, has yet to get PP time, ample PK time.

Leino

Current: 21gp 3g 2a 5pts -2 3hits 14:05 ATOI

Projected: 81gp 11g 7a 19pts -3 11hits

Notes: 11th in forward scoring, 16th in team scoring, struggled to find stay on one line

Helm

Current: 17gp 2g 3a 5pts +1 41hits 13:26 ATOI

Projected: 77gp 9g 13a 22pts +1 185hits

Notes: 12th in forward scoring, 17th in team scoring, no PP time, ample PK time, 2nd in forward hitting, 3rd in team hitting, 50.5% on face-offs (4th on team).

Abdelkader

Current: 19gp 3g 1a 4pts +1 52hits 9:41 ATOI

Projected: 79gp 12g 4a 16pts +1 216hits

Notes: 13th in forward scoring, 18th in team scoring, no PP time, some PK time, 1st in forward hitting, 2nd in team hitting, 40.8% on face-offs (10th on team), ranks 1st in hits among NHL rookie forwards.

Note that last year the rookie (and overall) hits leader was Cal Clutterbuck of the Wild (with 356 hits). If we compare Abdelkader's projected hit total to the top hitting forwards in the league last season he would rank 11th overall, with Clutterbuck, Brown, Callahan, Cook, Lucic, Dubinsky, Artyukhin, Ovechkin, Ruutu and Ott rounding out the top 11.

I make note of this because Abdelkader's on pace to be one of the top hitters in the league (in terms of frequency). Right now he sits at 23rd overall among forwards with Ovechkin directly above him and Cole right below him. Also of note is that Helm sits 48th overall among forwards in hits. So we've got two of the top 50 hitters (and 4 of the top 65).

EDIT:

Also note that Ericsson would sit 3rd in rookie defensive scoring (if he was technically a rookie) with the guy right above him holding a 3pt lead having played 5 more games (thus if you project E's pts forward to 25 games he'd be tied with that kid). He also ranks 2nd in rookie defensive goal scoring. He'd also be tied for 2nd in PIM among rookie defensemen. Also note that Hedmen, who's playing on a team with a similar record and getting significantly more minutes (but is also much younger) has the following stats: 20gp 0g 5a 5pts +1 23:45ATOI.

Edited November 25, 2009 by Drake_Marcus