Jimmy Howard

[RedWings Gone Wild 6]

Firstly, I don't consider Osgood to be whining. He's pissed.

Secondly, had you actually read the thread, you'd have noted my EARLIER POST, wherein I stated that although I agree with what Osgood had to say, I disagree with the fact that he popped off about it in the Press, and that I further think that it is definitely not the best way to go about rectifying the situation.

You did read the thread, right? Or are you simply a s***-stirrer, too?

Is Osgood your son or something? Your efforts to carry his torch passed excessive a while ago and has just become creepy.

[Broken 16 381]

Firstly, I don't consider Osgood to be whining. He's pissed.

Secondly, had you actually read the thread, you'd have noted my EARLIER POST, wherein I stated that although I agree with what Osgood had to say, I disagree with the fact that he popped off about it in the Press, and that I further think that it is definitely not the best way to go about rectifying the situation.

You did read the thread, right? Or are you simply a s***-stirrer, too?

Fine. He's pissed. Still doesn't validate what he said to the press imo.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

Is Osgood your son or something? Your efforts to carry his torch passed excessive a while ago and has just become creepy.

When you can't argue against the logic I suppose it makes sense to attack the poster's merit.

Also good job on Howard today. One goal and his GAA and Sv% gets even better.

[Stiffy 0]

When you can't argue against the logic I suppose it makes sense to attack the poster's merit.

Yea, the old argumentum ad hominem is pretty common here as are many other fallacies. It's endless.

This guy must have spent time here and on other hockey forums. It seems to be human nature.

[Mickeyisms Rule! 0]

Or, as I, (and a few others), have been stating, it could have something to do with this:

Babcock regarding Osgood being benched - From MLive

"Sometimes when things are taken away from you that you really value, and that's competing......."

Or when Babs was recently quoted as saying that Osgood needs to be "at his best", and concluded the statement with '.....no one likes to watch the other guy playing."

Again....jabjab.....pokepoke. Just as with Conklin last year.

Now...HERE'S an interesting Quote from Babcock:

From MLive

From the 2007-2008 Season, the year Osgood was an "All-Star",:

Now.....

Bear in mind that this was during a period of time where Osgood was posting a record of 9-1, with a GAA of 1.70, and a SVP of .935.

Wow. Interesting that, although Osgood was performing like a Vezina Candidate, Babcock still felt the "need", (his words), to get Dom "back in there" and "rolling".

For the record, Dom got the next FOUR Starts after that Game. Regardless of how well Osgood was playing.

Even better is the fact that it turns out that Dom didn't need to get going. In fact, the way he played in the playoffs got him right out of there, didn't it?

Maybe Babcock learned from his mistake that year. The hot hand is often the one to go with, and the other goalie, while it would be nice, may never get going after all.

As I said in a previous post, it's a fact of aging. You can't keep it going physically forever. It is plausible, if not even likely, that Ozzie just doesn't have it in him any longer.

There comes a time in every player's career where you can't just rely on what you have accomplished in the past.

[Outsider 42]

Even better is the fact that it turns out that Dom didn't need to get going. In fact, the way he played in the playoffs got him right out of there, didn't it?

Maybe Babcock learned from his mistake that year. The hot hand is often the one to go with, and the other goalie, while it would be nice, may never get going after all.

As I said in a previous post, it's a fact of aging. You can't keep it going physically forever. It is plausible, if not even likely, that Ozzie just doesn't have it in him any longer.

There comes a time in every player's career where you can't just rely on what you have accomplished in the past.

Except for the fact that Dom was literally fantastic from that point on that year.

He went 7-1-1 in December, 5-1 in January, 2-1-1 in February, 6-1 in March, and 2-1 in April. He was absolutely fantastic down the stretch. So the fact of the matter is.....

He GOT going. And he was the hot hand going into the Post Season. It wasn't Osgood who was the "hot hand" going into the 1st Round. It was Dom.

What Season are you remembering?

As a matter of fact, While Dom went 22-5-1 down the stretch, Osgood went on a major slump heading into the Play Offs. He only went 6-6-2 from the time Dom got back into the net, (and got going REALLY hot), to the end of the Season.

So, in fact, your assertion that "maybe Babcock learned from his mistake that year." is ridiculous. He DID ride the hot hand. As he did with Legace in 2005. Oops. Both times.

The two times he bucked the trend and rode the "cold" goaltender, over the "hot" goaltender.....once when he replaced Dom with Osgood, and once when he STARTED with Osgood over the much "hotter" Conklin.....

Resulted in a Stanley Cup, and a trip to Game 7 of the SCF's. Looks like your logic is slightly off.

By the way.....It wasn't a physical problem with Dom against Nashville. It was mental. All mental. And even had it been physical? Dom was in his 40's, and an unconventional goaltender who's game was BASED ON his reflexes, with zero basis in fundamental goaltending. He had also suffered from major injuries, (the type which keep a goaltender out for months at a time), for many years before the 2008 Play Offs.

Ozzie is, even now, half a decade younger than Hasek was then....and has always been a calm, "quiet" goaltender who doesn't really move around much. He's also been blessed with very few serious injuries.

As Jimmy Bedard stated last year.....

"There's a LOT of horse left in Chris Osgood."

Edited January 3, 2010 by Outsider

[Guest lilja4mvp]

osgood is done like dinner. give it up, man.

[Carman 387]

osgood is done like dinner. give it up, man.

Far from it, he'll be fine. What we all should be focusing on is the improvement of Jimmy Howard. Not the phantom "decline" of Chris Osgood. Osgood will be there when it counts, that's for sure.

[Mickeyisms Rule! 0]

Except for the fact that Dom was literally fantastic from that point on that year.

He went 7-1-1 in December, 5-1 in January, 2-1-1 in February, 6-1 in March, and 2-1 in April. He was absolutely fantastic down the stretch. So the fact of the matter is.....

He GOT going. And he was the hot hand going into the Post Season. It wasn't Osgood who was the "hot hand" going into the 1st Round. It was Dom.

What Season are you remembering?

The season that Dom got yanked from the playoffs and we rode Ozzie to the cup.

As a matter of fact, While Dom went 22-5-1 down the stretch, Osgood went on a major slump heading into the Play Offs. He only went 6-6-2 from the time Dom got back into the net, (and got going REALLY hot), to the end of the Season.

Maybe because he got replaced when he was hot?

So, in fact, your assertion that "maybe Babcock learned from his mistake that year." is ridiculous. He DID ride the hot hand. As he did with Legace in 2005. Oops. Both times.

Yep, good idea riding Legace. How many rounds did we get into the playoffs that year?

The two times he bucked the trend and rode the "cold" goaltender, over the "hot" goaltender.....once when he replaced Dom with Osgood, and once when he STARTED with Osgood over the much "hotter" Conklin.....

Resulted in a Stanley Cup, and a trip to Game 7 of the SCF's. Looks like your logic is slightly off.

Once again you are talking about what Ozzie did for us in the past. Frankly, it doesn't hold water with me any longer. Ozzie will get a chance to play again this season, but if he keeps letting in crappy soft goals that break the back of this team LIKE HE HAS BEEN DOING ALL THIS SEASON AND MOST OF LAST, he shouldn't start regularly.

By the way.....It wasn't a physical problem with Dom against Nashville. It was mental. All mental. And even had it been physical? Dom was in his 40's, and an unconventional goaltender who's game was BASED ON his reflexes, with zero basis in fundamental goaltending. He had also suffered from major injuries, (the type which keep a goaltender out for months at a time), for many years before the 2008 Play Offs.

Ozzie's problems are mostly mental right now as well. They were mental last year. Do you honestly think that this team can afford to give Ozzie time to get his head on straight this year too?? How many times can this guy lose it and get it back? Eventually the team will just lose confidence in him. It is the job of the coach to figure out when that time has come.

Ozzie is, even now, half a decade younger than Hasek was then....and has always been a calm, "quiet" goaltender who doesn't really move around much. He's also been blessed with very few serious injuries.

As stated above, this is mostly mental. Age will play some part in it- as it won't be that easy for him to play is way back into shape.

As Jimmy Bedard stated last year.....

"There's a LOT of horse left in Chris Osgood."

Last year there may have been a lot of horse left. But his play this season has made him smelling more like what comes out of the back end of a horse than like the goalie he has been in past years.

I never thought I would ever say this, but I now feel when Ozzie is on the ice like I did when Chevaldae was playing for us. I just know the bad goal is going in, the only question is when.

Luckily that question has been answered in the fist 2 minutes of the 1st period, so at least the waiting doesn't cause me stress.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Far from it, he'll be fine. What we all should be focusing on is the improvement of Jimmy Howard. Not the phantom "decline" of Chris Osgood. Osgood will be there when it counts, that's for sure.

Jimmy's updated stats (as of 12:01am Sunday, January 3rd, 2010):

Sv%: 0.923% (Rank: 7th in the league)

GAA: 2.20 (Rank: Tied with Brodeur for 6th in the league)

So right now he's a top 7 goalie in the league from a statistical perspective.

Now for a few stats I calculated myself (note that I've only ranked the top 30 goalies for comparison's sake):

Winning Percentage = Games Won / Games Started (over-counts games won but not started, but those are uncommon)

Point Percentage = Pts earned (W and OT) / Maximum Pts possible (2 x Games Started)

Jimmy:

W%: 0.609 (Rank: 11th in the league)

Pt%: 0.652 (Rank: 8th in the league)

[Seraph 240]

Winning Percentage = Games Won / Games Started (over-counts games won but not started, but those are uncommon)

Point Percentage = Pts earned (W and OT) / Maximum Pts possible (2 x Games Started)

Jimmy:

W%: 0.609 (Rank: 11th in the league)

Pt%: 0.652 (Rank: 8th in the league)

That's pretty darn amazing considering we forgot how to score goals for awhile.

[Guest Crymson]

Jimmy's updated stats (as of 12:01am Sunday, January 3rd, 2010):

Sv%: 0.923% (Rank: 7th in the league)

GAA: 2.20 (Rank: Tied with Brodeur for 6th in the league)

So right now he's a top 7 goalie in the league from a statistical perspective.

Now for a few stats I calculated myself (note that I've only ranked the top 30 goalies for comparison's sake):

Winning Percentage = Games Won / Games Started (over-counts games won but not started, but those are uncommon)

Point Percentage = Pts earned (W and OT) / Maximum Pts possible (2 x Games Started)

Jimmy:

W%: 0.609 (Rank: 11th in the league)

Pt%: 0.652 (Rank: 8th in the league)

Yeah, and he has been facing 30+ shots on many nights, too.

He's looking wonderful.

[kylee 727]

If he can keep up this level of play throughout the season I don't see any reason why Howard would not be in contention for the Calder Trophy. Can't ask for much more out of him with a 2.25 GAA and a .921 S%.

[Reis710 3]

Or, as I, (and a few others), have been stating, it could have something to do with this:

Babcock regarding Osgood being benched - From MLive

"Sometimes when things are taken away from you that you really value, and that's competing......."

Or when Babs was recently quoted as saying that Osgood needs to be "at his best", and concluded the statement with '.....no one likes to watch the other guy playing."

Again....jabjab.....pokepoke. Just as with Conklin last year.

Now...HERE'S an interesting Quote from Babcock:

From MLive

From the 2007-2008 Season, the year Osgood was an "All-Star",:

Now.....

Bear in mind that this was during a period of time where Osgood was posting a record of 9-1, with a GAA of 1.70, and a SVP of .935.

Wow. Interesting that, although Osgood was performing like a Vezina Candidate, Babcock still felt the "need", (his words), to get Dom "back in there" and "rolling".

For the record, Dom got the next FOUR Starts after that Game. Regardless of how well Osgood was playing.

Very Great find, but the scenario we were in in 2007-2008 was different then now, I can't tell you exactly, but im pretty sure we were in the top 3, we could afford to switch goalies. 2009-2010 were in between 7-10 with so many injuries, we can't really take out a goalie who is playing well for a goalie who just doesn't seem to have it anymore.

I do think Ozzie will get it back, he is just a bit frustrated then when he plays he plays the good teams. I don't like that either but thats what I've noticed. Once this team is healthy and hopefully in a better playoff position I do see Ozzie starting more regardless of how hot howard is playing.

[trogdor 5]

http://popup.lala.com/popup/360569462349142960

[RedArmy 4]

after all the whining that howard only plays crappy teams, jimmy comes in and beats bother yotes and avs... I hope this supports his case for now...