Osgood v Babcock round 2

[Vladifan 680]

The only thing unfair to the team is Osgood's inability to keep his frustration over his performance in check.

I have mixed feelings about this. Most of the posters putting down Ozzie for his comments seem to think he's putting Howard down too and wants to be in charge. I don't see this anywhere in his statement. He only mentioned Howard in the sense that Babcock did the same thing to him last year. What I read is that if he's going to be helpful to the team, he needs to be played more. I believe he is right on. I agree it probably doesn't help to air his frustrations to the media, but I totally agree with what he says. And we won't know about how unfair it is to the team till we see not only how Ozzie does after a few games under his belt, but what Babcock does with his goalies. We need a main goalie and a backup goalie and both of them have to be prepared to play. That's just for regular play, let alone the playoffs.

Yeah, Babcock should have the last word but I also think if Ilitch and Holland agreed totally with Babcock on his handling of the goalies, Oz might not even be making his comments. JMHO.

Edited January 19, 2010 by Vladifan

[WingsZR2 1]

This current situation is a double edged sword. You want to ride Jimmy because his play warrants it but you can't go a month without getting Ozzie a quality start. Jimmy needs the break and Ozzie needs to show us that his playoff switch can be turned on a few months early. Regardless of who is in goal for the next month or two they need to stop pucks and give us a chance to win, right now those odds are resting on the shoulders of a rookie. I love Ozzie as much the next guy but Jimmy seems capable of actually stealing a game as his 51 save performance against the Kings showed us.

We have to win at least 6 out of every 10 games, period. Whoever gives us that chance should get the call. Tonight might go a long way in showing who that goalie is going to be.

[gcom007 1,465]

This team is fighting for the playoffs, what in the hell good would risk losing a few games do, if you are risking it so Ozzie will be ready for a post season he may miss?

Do I think if this team was in first or top 4 that the theory babs is using now is risky and stupid, YES!. But he can't plan for the playoffs, or next month, he has to make a roster to get points each and every game, he has to go with what gives him the best chance at points, he sees these two every day, practice, games, morning skates, hotels, planes and even eats with them. You mean to tell me that you think anyone's guess work on here (mine included) is remotely close to what Babs knows and sees. You don't think he would see Jimmy get tired?

Babs is in a no win situation, if he plays Howard and they miss the playoffs he gets criticized big time, he plays Howard they make the playoffs he snubbed his Vet, if he plays Ozzie and they miss the playoffs he should have stayed with the hot rookie, he plays Ozzie and they make the playoffs is the only win. So I was wrong there is one win.

There will always be the group on here that makes a goalie debate when there isn't one, why is it so hard to notice that Babs theory has the team fighting for the playoffs, not missing it, not well into, but in the heat of the playoffs.

With this roster, I am very happy to be there, and the fact a rookie netminder has shouldered most of the burden is great. And is not very different from Ozzie's own past and he should respect that and the team and shut up and play well.

Either ***** when you don't start and then perform when you do start or don't *****. Don't ***** when you are sitting and then when you are starting!

There's a very reasonable middle that can be had here.

It's called "what 90% of the other teams do."

I don't think we'd have lost some of the games we lost if Babcock had Osgood playing just a little bit more. Howard has played poorly in some games, but I don't even think those games would've happened if he had a bit more rest, physically and mentally.

So let's think about that............

We play Howard just about non-stop and he s***s the bed every now and again and a loss is on the goaltender.

Or...

We play Howard the majority of the time while he's hot but give Osgood starts on a semi-regular basis as well to break things up for Howard. Maybe we lose a game because Osgood's rusty, but hey, we're going to lose a game playing Howard into the ground every 5 or 6 games it seems, so why not try to keep Osgood a little fresher in the process.

You as well as many others are seeing this situation in such a polarized, black and white manner. It's absolutely not that simple. No doubt that Howard's been the hot-hand and you'd be a fool to not keep him in often, but I still think it's stupid to let a backup get rusty on the bench.

When your backup's name is Chris Osgood, we're getting into "foolish" territory again.

Hey, don't take my word for it, ask Ken Holland. Look up how things were going last year and what Ken had to do to fix Babcock's mistakes with Osgood. It's no mystery. It's in the press. Look it up.

[gcom007 1,465]

You guys who keep talking about this playoff switch are out of your minds. Your basing this on one season, and even so, you blatantly have little understanding of the circumstances and context.

What you really ought to be calling it is the "Ken Holland Fixing Babcock's f***-Up's Switch."

[Vladifan 680]

What if he is trying to protect the ego of a rookie and not worry about the mental state of a vet?

What if Ozzie blanks the Caps, what does that do for him mentally?

All these Babs v Ozzie, and Ozzie v Howard, and Ozzie v the World threads are all predicting gloom and doom before anything has a chance to happen.

Maybe Babs sees this as motivator for Ozzie, he has needed those recently in the regular season. An angry Ozzie goes out and plays out of his mind, do you honestly think Babs doesn't give him another shot.

Follow my logic for a second this may be a long one;

Babs has a rookie in net, one who started the year with not a lot of confidence, he has one of the mentally toughest guys in the game in Ozzie, not just in the net but in the league. Why on earth would he want to throw that away (especially when it is one of the cheapest contracts in net in the NHL)? Why wouldn't Babs (whose job relies on Det winning) want the best and cheapest(coincidence not on purpose) option to mentor his future goalie?

I love how the tinfoil hat crowd finds a way in every Ozzie thread to make the starting of Howard personal!

I personally want to go with this. Especially the part about Oz playing angry. OH, how I hope it works.

[gcom007 1,465]

I personally want to go with this. Especially the part about Oz playing angry. OH, how I hope it works.

It didn't work last year. Ken Holland worked.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

Osgood shouldn't be talking to the media about this. He should be talking to Babcock. We should only be guessing at your thoughts on how Babcock is running things and this is only going to make people's opinions of it worse.

That said, what a terrible time to put in a goaltender that hasn't started in a month. Against arguably the best offensive team in the NHL? What the hell, Babs?

[Guest Howard He Do It?!]

You guys who keep talking about this playoff switch are out of your minds. Your basing this on one season, and even so, you blatantly have little understanding of the circumstances and context.

What you really ought to be calling it is the "Ken Holland Fixing Babcock's f***-Up's Switch."

That's right. Keep belittling those who don't share your view of the situation. Ken Holland had to fix Babcock's mess up? Did you see Ozzie in the regular season last season? He played poorly. There is no denying that and there is no blaming Babcock for Ozzie's inability to be reliable in the regular season.

[Guest Howard He Do It?!]

Osgood shouldn't be talking to the media about this. He should be talking to Babcock. We should only be guessing at your thoughts on how Babcock is running things and this is only going to make people's opinions of it worse.

That said, what a terrible time to put in a goaltender that hasn't started in a month. Against arguably the best offensive team in the NHL? What the hell, Babs?

Ozzie is starting because Jimmy needs the rest and the Caps play in the East, so we aren't chasing them.

[gcom007 1,465]

That's right. Keep belittling those who don't share your view of the situation. Ken Holland had to fix Babcock's mess up? Did you see Ozzie in the regular season last season? He played poorly. There is no denying that and there is no blaming Babcock for Ozzie's inability to be reliable in the regular season.

I won't deny that Osgood was terrible last year. The fact that it went on so long was questioned. That question was put to rest eventually, by Ken Holland who took over and ultimately resolved the situation. Look it up.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

Babs is riding the hot goalie. God forbid he takes winning over Ozzie's feelings. He did not start the controversy to piss of Osgood. He didn't start anything. He decided to go with the goalie he had confidence in and who the team played well in front of.

None of this correlates to what has transpired.

Osgood is cold. Very cold. Going up against a team that in their last ten games scored 43 goals. That is a 4.3 GFA. They are hot. Very hot.

Osgood's not feeling like he isn't being appreciated. He feels like both him and Howard are not being played to their potential. First Howard gets almost no starts. Now Osgood is getting no starts. If Osgood shuts out the Capitals will it be a month where Howard goes back to riding the bench? Osgood's media comments shouldn't have been said, but at the same time he isn't doing it to prop himself up.

[Guest Howard He Do It?!]

I won't deny that Osgood was terrible last year. The fact that it went on so long was questioned. That question was put to rest eventually, by Ken Holland who took over and ultimately resolved the situation. Look it up.

It's not my job to defend and give information that supports your argument. That's on your shoulders. You give me the article bud. Show everyone how Babcock messed up and Ken Holland had to fly in to save the day.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

Ozzie is starting because Jimmy needs the rest and the Caps play in the East, so we aren't chasing them.

Last time I checked we aren't chasing the Wild either. And they are a team that has scored 31 in their last 10. That's one goal less per game than the Capitals in their last ten.

When it comes to ease on the goaltender, Osgood should be playing Minnesota, and Howard tonight. He at least had some time to rest after the back to backs.

It's not my job to defend and give information that supports your argument. That's on your shoulders. You give me the article bud. Show everyone how Babcock messed up and Ken Holland had to fly in to save the day.

Did you just start watching the Wings?

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/20...ris_osgood.html

It isn't like Babs was killing Osgood, but it was Holland who fixed the problem with Osgood.

Edited January 19, 2010 by Doc Holliday

[Hockeytown_Ryan 119]

In the midst of all this Hossa bashing, we should all thank Osgood for proving the majority of us wrong. Thank you Chris for getting us to the finals.

At least you owned up to it. You were one of the most ridiculously outspoken people against Ozzie (some ridiculous s*** at that) and he showed up more than anyone else these playoffs.

<3 Ozzie

Agreed. Osgood did not let us down.

its too bad his defense leaves him out to dry so often

Yup. Nothing to do here but eat some crow. Osgood was SOLID in the playoffs. Didn't expect it. Loved what I saw, though.

I give Ozzie many MANY props this post season He was epic. I just wish we could have lifted that cup at the end.

thanks ozzie, you played great and saved us a number of times.....

until october the only ozzie in my life is OZZIE GUILLEN!!!!!

p.s. I like the tigers...much more than i like the hawks

I was hesitant on Osgood in the beginning of the playoffs. But he did absolutely everything you could ask of a goalie. The guy is amazing, and deserves every single complement he gets.

My o my how things change from one season to the next....... These are after the loss to Pittsburgh...... Yes a LOSS in game 7

Now he doesnt get the ice time he's used to and he's upset by it and now he's a ***** eh???

What a bunch o crap!

[Guest ZetterbergFourty]

He's gonna STFU Babcock with a win tonight. He's excellent in the STFUing people up with his play.

[Carman 387]

My o my how things change from one season to the next....... These are after the loss to Pittsburgh...... Yes a LOSS in game 7

Now he doesnt get the ice time he's used to and he's upset by it and now he's a ***** eh???

What a bunch o crap!

Hey as I've said before. I'm not bashing Osgood's ability/performance, just his choice to go to the media. I understand and look forward to him being our playoff goaltender.

There will always be people that never give Osgood credit and will bash him at every opportunity. It's best just to ignore that crowd.

[gcom007 1,465]

It's not my job to defend and give information that supports your argument. That's on your shoulders. You give me the article bud. Show everyone how Babcock messed up and Ken Holland had to fly in to save the day.

It bothers me having to post things that have been so widely presented in the press and even discussed here in the past...extensively discussed. I'm not going to do homework for people with selective memories. I will remind them that the evidence is there and easily available via google's extensive search options.

But they know what I'm talking about anyways. The evidence isn't really the issue. It's not like these people really forget.

It's very, very simple to see that last year was Osgood's worst season and the only example in his long career of such a season like it. It's also incredibly easy to see that this season has not gone at all like last season despite how much people have imagined it has.

This is blatant bias, plain and simple. Howard's played well, but the idea that Osgood has played as poorly as some suggest he has is not an idea rooted in reality.

[chrisdetroit 189]

Nothing personal, but you turn on the players and the team in a split second when something goes wrong. I love the Red Wings. There are players who frustrate the hell out of me, but as long as they are here, I want them to do well because I want the team as a whole to do well.

Being a fan means supporting your team even when things aren't going well. Ozzie has done far too many good things in his career for the Red Wings to receive this type of treatment.

Actually, Mindfly turns on the team even when things are going great. I'm with you. I have never said a player sucks or is lazy. Maybe I'm in the minority.

[Hockeytown_Ryan 119]

Hey as I've said before. I'm not bashing Osgood's ability/performance, just his choice to go to the media. I understand and look forward to him being our playoff goaltender.

There will always be people that never give Osgood credit and will bash him at every opportunity. It's best just to ignore that crowd.

Ive said all Im gonna say here.... It's just hard to see "Fans" turn on guys like that for being vocal.

[Carman 387]

Ive said all Im gonna say here.... It's just hard to see "Fans" turn on guys like that for being vocal.

Vocal does not mean causing unnecessary drama sorry.

[Hockeytown_Ryan 119]

Vocal does not mean causing unnecessary drama sorry.

Yeah Like these stupid threads are full of...? What ever Carman Your the last one to talk about drama... sorry

[Guest Howard He Do It?!]

Last time I checked we aren't chasing the Wild either. And they are a team that has scored 31 in their last 10. That's one goal less per game than the Capitals in their last ten.

When it comes to ease on the goaltender, Osgood should be playing Minnesota, and Howard tonight. He at least had some time to rest after the back to backs.

On your own account, the Wild are just as hot as the Caps, so why does it matter when Ozzie plays? Sometimes baptism by fire can be beneficial.

Did you just start watching the Wings?

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/20...ris_osgood.html

It isn't like Babs was killing Osgood, but it was Holland who fixed the problem with Osgood.

So I am to think that Babs didn't say anything similar to Ozzie? Am I to believe that Babs was out to get Ozzie and was reveling in his mediocrity? it wasn't Babs fault that the situation was dragged on for so long. It was on Ozzie's shoulders to better his play and he didn't. That's when Kenny had to step in and give him a break. Let's not pretend like Babs did nothing.

[Carman 387]

Yeah Like these stupid threads are full of...? What ever Carman Your the last one to talk about drama... sorry

I don't like seeing players on my team openly criticize the head coach. Especially in the Red Wing's situation.

[chrisdetroit 189]

It bothers me having to post things that have been so widely presented in the press and even discussed here in the past...extensively discussed. I'm not going to do homework for people with selective memories. I will remind them that the evidence is there and easily available via google's extensive search options.

But they know what I'm talking about anyways. The evidence isn't really the issue. It's not like these people really forget.

It's very, very simple to see that last year was Osgood's worst season and the only example in his long career of such a season like it. It's also incredibly easy to see that this season has not gone at all like last season despite how much people have imagined it has.

This is blatant bias, plain and simple. Howard's played well, but the idea that Osgood has played as poorly as some suggest he has is not an idea rooted in reality.

Not true. Save % regular season

2008-2009 .887

2005-2006 .897

2002-2003 .894

1993-1994 .895

Ozzie is at .897 this year

His best year was 1994-1995 when he was .917

He's a lifetime .906 regular season and .916 playoffs which is good but not great.

I'm not an Ozzie hater but I hate it when people on here get the facts wrong.

[gcom007 1,465]

On your own account, the Wild are just as hot as the Caps, so why does it matter when Ozzie plays? Sometimes baptism by fire can be beneficial.

So I am to think that Babs didn't say anything similar to Ozzie? Am I to believe that Babs was out to get Ozzie and was reveling in his mediocrity? it wasn't Babs fault that the situation was dragged on for so long. It was on Ozzie's shoulders to better his play and he didn't. That's when Kenny had to step in and give him a break. Let's not pretend like Babs did nothing.

Oh, Babcock definitely did something...some people might call it the wrong thing. Certain coaches may excel at managing many parts of the game. Some such at others. Goaltending management has never been Babcock's strength, especially as a Wings coach. This shouldn't be hard to recall...