The Wings look tougher this year than they have in recent memory.

[Guest micah]

I'm not sure that anyone's blaming the team's performance on the increase in toughness. It is fun to see the correlation rubbed into the enforcer slappies faces, though, especially the ones who think enforcers magically win games.

I don't know who the people are that your estimation "think enforcers magically win games". Please name them. Thanks.

[seeinred 1,488]

I don't know who the people are that your estimation "think enforcers magically win games". Please name them. Thanks.

I'll be doing no such thing. But there are definitely people who have said, and continue to say that getting this team a legit enforcer is/was the missing ingredient and would lead to success.

[Guest micah]

I knew as soon as I saw this thread there would be some idiot trying to derail what looked to me like good discussion. Congrats Rick Zombos Ghost you get the douchebag poster of the day award, presented toy ou by Newfy.

Go easy there, Newf. There are posters who only exist to derail, flame or bait. It's been a rough year for our Wings, you know that whenever someone starts a positive thread highlighting something the team is doing right, someone, likely miserable will their own life, will come along with their yeah buts. I think you should have been more charitable here, While the poster you reference was engaging in douchebaggery, it might just be the best, most civilized he was capable of. Not everyone was born as awesome as us.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

I'll be doing no such thing. But there are definitely people who have said, and continue to say that getting this team a legit enforcer is/was the missing ingredient and would lead to success.

Yeah, but those people never thought having half the team injured would help out on that success.

People just wanted a tough guy on the 4th line and a team that would stand up for themselves. I still don't know what you're trying to prove with this argument.

Nobody who was pro-enforcer has been proven wrong with anything that they said in the past, based on what's happened this season.

[esteef 2,679]

I know one thing, the Wings are undefeated in regulation when Patrick Eaves fights.

esteef

[Echolalia 2,961]

yes they look tougher. notice how that has translated to wins? oh wait...

If you're going to derail the thread into a enforcer debate, the least you can do is continue a LGW meme by fitting in "if only May was in the lineup" somewhere.

[Guest micah]

I know one thing, the Wings are undefeated in regulation when Patrick Eaves fights.

esteef

They're also undefeated when Leino fights;)

[esteef 2,679]

Nobody who was pro-enforcer has been proven wrong with anything that they said in the past, based on what's happened this season.

Exactly, and who are these "enforcers" that are keeping us from winning anyways? May? Eaves? Janik? Abby? May is barely an enforcer as it is...

esteef

[seeinred 1,488]

Yeah, but those people never thought having half the team injured would help out on that success.

People just wanted a tough guy on the 4th line and a team that would stand up for themselves. I still don't know what you're trying to prove with this argument.

Nobody who was pro-enforcer has been proven wrong with anything that they said in the past, based on what's happened this season.

What argument? All I said was that it's funny to see people rubbing the inverse proportionality of toughness to wins in the face of those most vocally and radically pro-enforcer (even though it's likely a fluke).

[Guest R2D2]

This thread is going to turn into a gem. Rick Zombo's ghost, I don't understand your post other than to bait.

[Broken 16 381]

All I know is that if we manage to make the playoffs, its gonna be one snarly bunch heading in.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

I disagree. Hockey is not the only measure of a man. Winning is nice, but simply being on the winning team does not make one above contempt in my book.

I agree that a team cannot be above contempt, but at the same time as a fan it is the most entertaining when the team succeeds in some aspect. Winning is simply the coup de grace of successes.

The way people conduct themslves in victory or defeat matters to me too.

And I feel the same way. Personally though I don't feel any better after a loss if players are starting s*** with the opposing team when they are being destroyed. I would prefer them to bring in huge hits and just be mad in general. Not try to "scare" the team or act like physical domination means you are better than the team. If you lose the game you aren't the better team.

"At any cost.." has never been my motto, at least not in a sporting event. I suspect most Devils fans share your way of thinking.

Well it depends on what you mean by "any cost".

Dive? No.

Use multiple cheap shots to maim the opposition? No.

Use gritty play and hard forechecking to create opportunities? Yes.

Clog up the neutral zone to create offense off the transition? Yes.

Use skill guys and implement a puck possession game? Yes.

I like to see my team win and bring a quality product to the ice. This year it has been more quality in the grit department but less in the success department, and that displeases me. I would really have liked to see this team healthy during the regular season because I think the Wings had to force an adaptation in their game due to injury (swap skill with grit which is why Leino is useless to the team right now) and have been having trouble making that transition. And even if they took to a more gritty team in training camp there would have been a much better product on the ice now.

Next year will bring more grit so we will probably see a 50-50 combination of puck possession and forechecking to force turnovers instead of virtually 100% PP.

At 6'0", 202 lbs, Tomas Holmstrom is a big body, bigger than the average wing, at least. He looks even bigger when you take into acount his extra padding.

When is the last time Holmstrom skated end to end without stumbling, anyways?

[RedFX 48]

I only take issue with one thing here. I still maintain that TOUGHNESS does not always meaning fighting/enforcing/sticking up etc. I think a player can be plenty tough without dropping the gloves every game. Sacrificing your body to take hits, make hits, block a 100mph slap, or get to the front of the net (in Holmstrom's case) are all things I consider to show toughness and grit.