Ville Leino Appreciation Thread

[Jaymz99 2]

Yeah, it's too bad he was stuck in Grand Rapids for four or five years waiting his turn in Detroit.

I do agree with this. The Wings always tend to overcook players in the minors, but it seems to work well for some.

I stopped reading at that point.

You obviously haven't watched him in GR before he was deemed bad juju by the LGW boards.

In retrospect, I will change that from "as good as" to "resembling" so as not to offend.

Edited June 3, 2010 by Jaymz99

[ShanahanMan 473]

Man o man, some of you act like Holland does no wrong, like he's the second coming of Jesus. You guys need to take your heads out of the sand and come to terms with this. The man makes mistakes. Holland made a big one by letting this kid go, plain and simple. Sometimes it takes a little bit of time to blossom into a great hockey player. I mean, do you guys realize Franzen only had 16 points with the Wings his first season? Holland was way too quick to let him go, considering half our team was injured at one point and especially after seeing what he was capable of in the 08-09 season. If he was still playing lackluster hockey by the midpoint of next season, then I would agree he should be moved. But to throw him away like garbage for essentially nothing based on half of one season's performance is really stupid if you ask me. I mean, this has arguably been of the Philly's best players in the playoffs, and yet we kept players like Brett Lebda over him. That fact alone makes me lose sleep.

Seriously, this will prove to be a very costly decision for a long time to come.

[Echolalia 2,961]

Man o man, some of you act like Holland does no wrong, like he's the second coming of Jesus. You guys need to take your heads out of the sand and come to terms with this. The man makes mistakes. Holland made a big one by letting this kid go, plain and simple. Sometimes it takes a little bit of time to blossom into a great hockey player. I mean, do you guys realize Franzen only had 16 points with the Wings his first season? Holland was way too quick to let him go, considering half our team was injured at one point and especially after seeing what he was capable of in the 08-09 season. If he was still playing lackluster hockey by the midpoint of next season, then I would agree he should be moved. But to throw him away like garbage for essentially nothing based on half of one season's performance is really stupid if you ask me. I mean, this has arguably been of the Philly's best players in the playoffs, and yet we kept players like Brett Lebda over him. That fact alone makes me lose sleep.

Seriously, this will prove to be a very costly decision for a long time to come.

I think the issue of Holland moving him was more because players that were picked up on waivers/in the minors were able to give the Wings a better chance at winning than Leino did, but to make room for those players, Leino would have to get sent to the minors, and Holland knew he wouldn't clear waivers. So his choice was to keep an underpeforming Leino on an injury-riddled team desperate for points at the expense of someone else who could help the team get points (and hence better our chance of making the playoffs), or trade him and cut the team's losses.

Edited June 3, 2010 by Echolalia

[Wings_Fan_In_Exile 3]

I don't know how you can really blame the Wings for Leino's lack of confidence/production when he was here. They gave him every chance and he just didn't deliver. Obviously if there were no cap he'd still be here.

I'm actually just happy for him, it's cool to see a guy turn it around, even if it is kind of at our expense.

[Aussie_Wing 354]

Man o man, some of you act like Holland does no wrong, like he's the second coming of Jesus. You guys need to take your heads out of the sand and come to terms with this. The man makes mistakes. Holland made a big one by letting this kid go, plain and simple. Sometimes it takes a little bit of time to blossom into a great hockey player. I mean, do you guys realize Franzen only had 16 points with the Wings his first season? Holland was way too quick to let him go, considering half our team was injured at one point and especially after seeing what he was capable of in the 08-09 season. If he was still playing lackluster hockey by the midpoint of next season, then I would agree he should be moved. But to throw him away like garbage for essentially nothing based on half of one season's performance is really stupid if you ask me. I mean, this has arguably been of the Philly's best players in the playoffs, and yet we kept players like Brett Lebda over him. That fact alone makes me lose sleep.

Seriously, this will prove to be a very costly decision for a long time to come.

Agreed mate.

I'm getting really tired of the 'Holland and co. can do absolutely nothing wrong' posts.

Edited June 3, 2010 by Aussie_Wing

[kook_10 1,705]

"Waaahh! I can't hustle when Coach Babcock is yelling at me. Waaahh! the Red Wings stripped me of my confidence. Waaahh! It's not my fault I can't play hard and score goals in Detroit."

It honestly doesn't bother me that Ville is doing well somewhere else, but I lost respect for him here and he certainly didn't earn any well wishes from me. He didn't need to blossom, he needed to find a place where he could do things his way and without high expectations. I do however think Holland made a mistake by dishing him before he could establish any value but that was a cap issue. I don't think he was going to blossom like this under Babcock or in Detroit and his comments about his time with the Wings seem to reflect that.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Man o man, some of you act like Holland does no wrong, like he's the second coming of Jesus. You guys need to take your heads out of the sand and come to terms with this. The man makes mistakes. Holland made a big one by letting this kid go, plain and simple. Sometimes it takes a little bit of time to blossom into a great hockey player. I mean, do you guys realize Franzen only had 16 points with the Wings his first season? Holland was way too quick to let him go, considering half our team was injured at one point and especially after seeing what he was capable of in the 08-09 season. If he was still playing lackluster hockey by the midpoint of next season, then I would agree he should be moved. But to throw him away like garbage for essentially nothing based on half of one season's performance is really stupid if you ask me. I mean, this has arguably been of the Philly's best players in the playoffs, and yet we kept players like Brett Lebda over him. That fact alone makes me lose sleep.

Seriously, this will prove to be a very costly decision for a long time to come.

Agreed mate.

I'm getting really tired of the 'Holland and co. can do absolutely nothing wrong' posts.

Everybody gets that people make mistakes. Getting pissed off at management for THIS MISTAKE, when Leino BARELY DID ANYTHING WITH THE RED WINGS, is so stupid and pointless.

How hard is it to spell out for some of you? It can't be described any more clearly for y'all. You want me to write it out in crayon with some drawings?

Edited June 3, 2010 by SouthernWingsFan

[ShanahanMan 473]

Everybody gets that people make mistakes. Getting pissed off at management for THIS MISTAKE, when Leino BARELY DID ANYTHING WITH THE RED WINGS, is so stupid and pointless.

How hard is it to spell out for some of you? It can't be described any more clearly for y'all. You want me to write it out in crayon with some drawings?

And once again, my point is that you (and Holland) are basing that off of only half a season's worth of performance. Did you already forget his amazing run with the Wings in 08-09 when he had 9 points in 13 games? Also, by your logic, we should have gotten rid of Franzen (16 points in first 80 games) in the middle of his first season as well. Or would you find a reason for Holland to have been justified then too?

[Guest mindfly]

If Williams weren't that brutal he could have been traded instead, but no team want williams... yeah its alll JWILLY's FAULT

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

And once again, my point is that you (and Holland) are basing that off of only half a season's worth of performance. Did you already forget his amazing run with the Wings in 08-09 when he had 9 points in 13 games? Also, by your logic, we should have gotten rid of Franzen (16 points in first 80 games) in the middle of his first season as well. Or would you find a reason for Holland to have been justified then too?

Fair or unfair, Leino didn't get the job done with his time with the Wings, and that is why he was let go. And he was barely worth anything at the time, so it is stupid to act bitter and like somebody peed in your corn flakes over letting him go.

And your logic example is ridiculous because the Wings barely had offense and depth at Franzen's rookie season, he wasn't a offensive juggernaut yet and didn't do anything to justify getting taken out of the lineup given his role.

General management definitely makes mistake, if you want to speak in general terms this is one as well. But this is one that I'm not even going to waste a minute of my life getting upset at. Quit being ridiculous.

EDIT: Correcting myself, the Wings had offense and the like Franzen's first year to a degree, but he still wasn't quite the scorer yet. Leino has always been or perceived to be a scorer/setup man fair or not.

Edited June 3, 2010 by SouthernWingsFan

[Echolalia 2,961]

And once again, my point is that you (and Holland) are basing that off of only half a season's worth of performance. Did you already forget his amazing run with the Wings in 08-09 when he had 9 points in 13 games? Also, by your logic, we should have gotten rid of Franzen (16 points in first 80 games) in the middle of his first season as well. Or would you find a reason for Holland to have been justified then too?

Not to fight someone else's fight, but I don't think that SWF (and Holland) are basing their response on only half a season's worth of performance. The Wings were tight against the cap and were fighting desperately just to make it into the playoffs. Holland had resources waiting (Franzen, Lilja) that could help the team climb the standings, but there wasn't enough roster space to utilize these resources. The plethora of injuries, claiming Miller, and people returning from injuries really complicated our caphit and our roster size. If Holland was serious about wanting to make the playoffs, he had to remove someone from the team to make the roster size and cap more malleable, and Leino was consistently proving himself to be the weakest link. At the very least, everyone else on the roster was bringing something to the table the Wings could benefit from. Despite his talent, Leino did not. Unfortunately, Leino was too talented a player to clear waivers so Holland did the next best thing and traded him for a pick and a defensman. Now that he's in a new setting and playing well on a team who's currently in the Finals, the move doesn't seem so ideal, but Holland didn't have too many options at the time. He would have taken way more heat from fans if he kept Leino around and never removed Franzen from IR.

[Original-Six 254]

Did you people completely forget that 95% of the reason Holland traded Leino was to free up cap room for Franzen and Lilja who were coming back from injuries. At the time Leino was sucking balls (6 points in 42 games or something like that)and getting payed over 1 mill. So he was put on the chopping block.

Besides Leino played well for us in the playoffs last year too. It will be interesting to see if he can keep this up over the regular season next year. ( He couldn't with the Wings)

[Guest Heaten]

Holland didn't make a mistake, in fact, Holland got something for nothing; he got a pick for an underachieving Leino that was more of a liability than anything else. Leino was absolutely brutal and had to go so Wings and Co. didn't lose Johan Franzen or Lilja. Leino was downright awful though-out the regular season. I cringed whenever he was on the ice.

Holland was a genius for getting a pick for him.... and that late round pick could become the Datsyuk or Zetterberg.

That said, I am glad Leino is playing like a beast. I certainly hope he wins the cup and trust me, I will use the image of him lifting the cup over his head for my avatar.

EDIT:

Also remember DRWs acquired Leino undrafted, so Holland virtually got a free 5th round pick in the magical midst of thin air.

Edited June 3, 2010 by Heaten

[Finnish Wing 110]

"How incredible was Ville Leino tonight? By far the best Flyer on the ice, Leino dipsy-doodled his way through the Blackhawks all night long, pacing his linemates, Danny Briere and Scott Hartnell, with his magnificent play. In the locker room after the game, Ian Laperriere shouted over to him 'Detroit should've traded Datsyuk instead of you.'"

[Guest Lidstromboli]

i agree with most things said but

Holland was a genius for getting a pick for him.... and that late round pick could become the Datsyuk or Zetterberg.

[kook_10 1,705]

"How incredible was Ville Leino tonight? By far the best Flyer on the ice, Leino dipsy-doodled his way through the Blackhawks all night long, pacing his linemates, Danny Briere and Scott Hartnell, with his magnificent play. In the locker room after the game, Ian Laperriere shouted over to him 'Detroit should've traded Datsyuk instead of you.'"

that was the concussion talking.

[dobbles 252]

Yeah, it's too bad he was stuck in Grand Rapids for four or five years waiting his turn in Detroit.

I do agree with this. The Wings always tend to overcook players in the minors, but it seems to work well for some.

You obviously haven't watched him in GR before he was deemed bad juju by the LGW boards.

In retrospect, I will change that from "as good as" to "resembling" so as not to offend.

you guys do realize that ville leino played a grand total of 57 games in grand rapids right? he was there for 1 season and even had a decent callup the year he was there. its funny that so many people blame holland yet don't even know what they are talking about...

[dobbles 252]

Fair or unfair, Leino didn't get the job done with his time with the Wings, and that is why he was let go. And he was barely worth anything at the time, so it is stupid to act bitter and like somebody peed in your corn flakes over letting him go.

i agree.

the other thing that people still forget is that the flyers scratched leino half the regular season games they had him. and in the 13 games he did play he had 4 points. additionally, the flyers scratched him the first 4 playoff games. he only got to play because carter got hurt. people act as if holland was an idiot and made a horrible trade, yet the flyers also felt leino was pretty worthless up until april 22nd.

[HankthaTank 1,100]

"How incredible was Ville Leino tonight? By far the best Flyer on the ice, Leino dipsy-doodled his way through the Blackhawks all night long, pacing his linemates, Danny Briere and Scott Hartnell, with his magnificent play. In the locker room after the game, Ian Laperriere shouted over to him 'Detroit should've traded Datsyuk instead of you.'"

Yep this is definitely the guy I would turn to for pinpoint analysis...

[Rick Zombos Ghost 82]

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklund/So-How-Good-is-Ville-Leino/1/28630

god do i hate Lame-O.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

i agree.

the other thing that people still forget is that the flyers scratched leino half the regular season games they had him. and in the 13 games he did play he had 4 points. additionally, the flyers scratched him the first 4 playoff games. he only got to play because carter got hurt. people act as if holland was an idiot and made a horrible trade, yet the flyers also felt leino was pretty worthless up until april 22nd.

Thanks for adding that. I never once thought about him doing so good for the Wings during his first game span in the regular season in addition to him barely doing anything for the Flyers to start. Funny how people forget that when he started with Philly he wasn't doing much to begin wih either.

More power to Leino for looking like he's turned a corner in his career. Do I wish it was for the Wings? Without question it would have been nice. Am I bitter that he's doing it in the Finals with the other team and that Holland let him go? Nope.

It'd be one thing to get pissy at management for making a blockbuster trade involving Zetterberg or Franzen for example (even if it was a decent deal), but it was Ville fricken Leino when he couldn't hit the backside of a barn for the Wings. It's Leino's own fault that he couldn't get the job done in Detroit and that he wasn't worth much at the time. Not Holland's. Not Babcock's. Leino's own fault. The whole concept that he wasn't given a fair shake with the Wings or that Holland is a blockhead for doing what he did is just mind-boggling.

EDIT: And before somebody comes back at me with, "Well he could've gotten more for him in a trade." Come on now, be realistic, from minute one at the time this trade wasn't going to net much due to Leino not being productive with the Wings. With that in mind, if you ask why do the trade at all then, well - I don't know. That's your deal if you think he should've ultimately been traded or not. It's something Holland felt like he had to do and given how nobody really gave much of a hoot about the trade at the time, it's something I can't really say that he is/was a genious or an idiot over.

Edited June 3, 2010 by SouthernWingsFan

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

Man o man, some of you act like Holland does no wrong, like he's the second coming of Jesus.

You need to stop using strawman arguments to defend your completely silly beliefs.

You guys need to take your heads out of the sand and come to terms with this. The man makes mistakes.

No s***.

Holland made a big one by letting this kid go, plain and simple.

Based on his s***ty season, lack of improvement and high salary?

Sometimes it takes a little bit of time to blossom into a great hockey player.

Detroit didn't have "a little bit of time". If they weren't up against the cap Leino would have stayed.

I mean, do you guys realize Franzen only had 16 points with the Wings his first season?

How much was he making?

Holland was way too quick to let him go, considering half our team was injured at one point and especially after seeing what he was capable of in the 08-09 season.

13 games doesn't make a career.

If he was still playing lackluster hockey by the midpoint of next season, then I would agree he should be moved.

Once again you completely have no idea the basis upon which Leino was moved. Do some reading.

But to throw him away like garbage for essentially nothing based on half of one season's performance is really stupid if you ask me.

Nobody is asking you because everybody who pays attention knows why Leino was moved. You obviously don't.

I mean, this has arguably been of the Philly's best players in the playoffs, and yet we kept players like Brett Lebda over him. That fact alone makes me lose sleep.

Seriously, this will prove to be a very costly decision for a long time to come.

Brett Lebda is a defenseman. Not much of a point in getting rid of a defenseman for a forward to replace when you still have to put a defenseman in the lineup anyway.

[Guest Heaten]

i agree with most things said but

So you think DRW scouts cannot find late round steals anymore? You do realize Datsyuk and Zetterberg were late round picks don't you?

[T.Low 1,011]

You never know what motivates people. It's like when Feds went to Anaheim, they picked up the phone and called Detroit and said "What do you gotta do to get this guy to score?" Sometimes things work out better for a guy for unforeseen reasons, wometimes they work out worse. Good for Ville, good for Philly.

[Red Storm 38]

"How incredible was Ville Leino tonight? By far the best Flyer on the ice, Leino dipsy-doodled his way through the Blackhawks all night long, pacing his linemates, Danny Briere and Scott Hartnell, with his magnificent play. In the locker room after the game, Ian Laperriere shouted over to him 'Detroit should've traded Datsyuk instead of you.'"

He's playing great hockey over there living up to his potential. Detroit will be just a footnote in his career.