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Ville Leino Appreciation Thread


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#81 Finnish Wing

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 06:28 PM

Just because you are Finnish doesn't mean you have to defend him. It's ok to admit that he was useless while he was here. We won't hold it against you.

There's really nothing you can say that will make me think that Leino wasn't here for just an easy paycheck. I'm sure he had visions of himself parked and waiting for a Datsyukian Dish game in and game out... what he didn't envision was the work required to get to that point. Lmao! What a moron.

He was pretty useless yes. I already admitted numerous times that it was a mistake to sign Leino + Williams rather than Hudler. Read the above posts before posting please. And it's not because he is Finnish that I like to watch him play. It's because I've watched him a long time already and he is an interesting player.

To this I just LOL'd hard. That's basically hating. You don't know anything about his motives. And as I already said he could've gotten much bigger salary playing in KHL A YEAR EARLIER but he decided to play at the AHL first to have a chance to play in the NHL. So you're basically just wrong here.

"What a moron." That basically sums up what I'm saying. You HATE that PERSON. It's just a freakin sport. Try to understand. You don't judge humans on how they perform on the ice. That's so stupid.

Edited by Finnish Wing, 07 April 2010 - 06:29 PM.

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#82 Broken 16

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 06:41 PM

The player is responsible to the organization. He does his job and gets paid based on how good he has done it. Still don't understand why people HATE players based on their performances. If you sign a player who isn't good enough is it the player's fault or the GM's fault? Leino got traded. That was the "punishment". What has he done to you or anyone here to cause that hatred, that I just don't get. As I said, I don't understand hating any player based on their performances in general as this is only a sport. Off-ice things are different though.



Exactly. He's paid a salary to fulfill a role. If he would have scored 15 goals, he would have been a bargain. What did he have with the Wings in 40+ games? 4 or 5? He was being paid to hustle. 800k is 'work hard and earn a spot' money and he basically refused to do it. He knew what he was getting in to and I highly doubt that anyone in the Wings braintrust mislead him about what was expected.

And about that lazyness, I still don't think you can even say one is lazy without seeing practices etc. Lazyness is about not even trying as I recall it. Playing to your strengths is a different thing.



He was a decent backchecker when he decided to do it, which wasn't often. He was pretty good at faking it, but unless you make an attempt to lift the stick and dig in, you may as well just get off the ice. It appeared to me that he was simply faking it most of the time, hoping that a HOF defensemen would pop it free and hit him on transition. In other words... lazy. That's how I saw it anyway.

#83 Finnish Wing

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 06:55 PM

Exactly. He's paid a salary to fulfill a role.

It doesn't go like that. You earn a better contract while playing well (also some of it is usually paying for potential). Let's say you play well and earn a three year contract 3M a year and play badly that whole time. So after the three years many teams offer you only under 1M a year because they thing you haven't EARNED a better salary.

And I think we can all agree that Leino isn't here for the money, but to actually play hockey on a high level. As said number of times already KHL teams would've paid him much more for the three years than he'll be getting now here in NA (AHL year + 2 years 1,6M).

He was a decent backchecker when he decided to do it, which wasn't often. He was pretty good at faking it, but unless you make an attempt to lift the stick and dig in, you may as well just get off the ice. It appeared to me that he was simply faking it most of the time, hoping that a HOF defensemen would pop it free and hit him on transition. In other words... lazy. That's how I saw it anyway.

And that raises the question: Is at about being lazy or not being good at back-checking (skating, stamina, strength etc.)?

Because basically you are saying that he could do it, but didn't want to because he was lazy. Why didn't he just go to the KHL then if he was only after money. You really think that he didn't want to do well and succeed?

Edited by Finnish Wing, 07 April 2010 - 06:58 PM.

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#84 Broken 16

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 07:15 PM

It doesn't go like that. You earn a better contract while playing well (also some of it is usually paying for potential). Let's say you play well and earn a three year contract 3M a year and play badly that whole time. So after the three years many teams offer you only under 1M a year because they thing you haven't EARNED a better salary.

And I think we can all agree that Leino isn't here for the money, but to actually play hockey on a high level. As said number of times already KHL teams would've paid him much more for the three years than he'll be getting now here in NA (AHL year + 2 years 1,6M).


He was offered a contract based on the fact he had offensive tools. That's a no brainer. We didn't sign Hossa. He looked good in spurts and his goal in his first game was amazing. There is obviously potential there. As long as he has the tools, there will always be potential. It's a matter of not putting in the extra effort to use them. If a carpenter shows up at your house to do some work with all the tools he needs and accomplishes nothing... he's lazy.

And that raises the question: Is at about being lazy or not being good at back-checking (skating, stamina, strength etc.)?


My definition of lazy is not making the little extra efforts needed in order to get an advantage. I've watched Leino closely, he doesn't really bother with those little efforts.

Because basically you are saying that he could do it, but didn't want to because he was lazy. Why didn't he just go to the KHL then if he was only after money. You really think that he didn't want to do well and succeed?



No... I think he thought he was the s*** and wasn't going to have to work hard in order to produce. I don't know if he could do it or not. I just know that he didn't appear to try very hard. When the Wings needed him most, he chose not to grind for a win.

#85 Finnish Wing

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 07:26 PM

No... I think he thought he was the s*** and wasn't going to have to work hard in order to produce. I don't know if he could do it or not. I just know that he didn't appear to try very hard. When the Wings needed him most, he chose not to grind for a win.

That's again only a assumption of yours and some other people.

The game looks the same whether you have zero confidence or whether "you're too lazy to do something". That's why you can't know if it's being lazy or not. And as said, the lazy way nowadays is to go the KHL. Not many guys who are the MVP's in top European league at the age of 25 tend to TRY to get in to the NHL by first having to PLAY A YEAR IN AHL. Finnish league MVP at the age of 25 (not that young anymore) going to AHL for a year for a chance to play in the NHL. Do you get it? Salary in the AHL was lower than Jokerit was paying him in the earlier year in FNL.

You don't understand what being a lazy is. Why on earth had he come here while every other player goes to KHL after the money and pretty high level of play as well.

Was he lazy last year when he put up 9 points in 13 games? Why had he suddenly come lazy after working on his skating with an olympic skater in the off-season? Lazy people don't do things like that. He obviously worked to be better.

He's a moody player. It's not about not wanting to do it. It's about when nthing's going well when you have zero confidence. Especially if you're a player whose game that confidence affects so greatly.

It really seems that you obviously don't know what you're talking about while you're calling him a lazy player who is only after money.

Edited by Finnish Wing, 07 April 2010 - 07:29 PM.

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#86 Broken 16

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 07:43 PM

That's again only a assumption of yours and some other people.

The game looks the same whether you have zero confidence or whether "you're too lazy to do something". That's why you can't know if it's being lazy or not. And as said, the lazy way nowadays is to go the KHL. Not many guys who are the MVP's in top European league at the age of 25 tend to TRY to get in to the NHL by first having to PLAY A YEAR IN AHL. Finnish league MVP at the age of 25 (not that young anymore) going to AHL for a year for a chance to play in the NHL. Do you get it? Salary in the AHL was lower than Jokerit was paying him in the earlier year in FNL.

You don't understand what being a lazy is.
Why on earth had he come here while every other player goes to KHL after the money and pretty high level of play as well.

Was he lazy last year when he put up 9 points in 13 games? Why had he suddenly come lazy after working on his skating with an olympic skater in the off-season? Lazy people don't do things like that. He obviously worked to be better.

He's a moody player. It's not about not wanting to do it. It's about when nthing's going well when you have zero confidence. Especially if you're a player whose game that confidence affects so greatly.

It really seems that you obviously don't know what you're talking about while you're calling him a lazy player who is only after money.



Actually, I only insinuated that he was here for the money in response to your direct question. In fact, you were the one that insinuated it in the first place.


If you got offered a 800k a year to play for the Red Wings, would you not do it?



Long story short... he was lazy for an entire season, he had no confidence for an entire season, little of both, whatever. He's gone and good riddance. And I wish him no luck.

Edited by Broken 16, 07 April 2010 - 07:44 PM.


#87 Finnish Wing

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 07:56 PM

Long story short... he was lazy for an entire season, he had no confidence for an entire season, little of both, whatever. He's gone and good riddance. And I wish him no luck.

That's your opinion and you can have it.

I'm still a supporter of his. I wish he does well and it's interesting to watch his games and see if he can improve himself. I think thatt's what makes it so fun is because I'm not a fan of Crosby like Carman for example, it would be so boring. I like that Leino isn't so good player, but I wish he does well. I don't expect him to put up 50 points next season or anything like that. And I don't expect him to do anything if he stops trying.

I just still don't understand why people are basically hating some player like that. But I guess this is a pointless discussion then...

Edited by Finnish Wing, 07 April 2010 - 08:39 PM.

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#88 Carman

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 08:02 PM

People are disappointed more than anything.

He had high, and probably unfair expectations and he completely bombed.

Fans want their teams players to do well, and when they don't they bash them.

That's sports, for better or for worse.

#89 kook_10

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 08:04 PM

My ears must be deceiving me. I just came home from dinner and I thought for a second the guys on Versus described Leino as being "the best player on the ice tonight for either team" after the *second period.

Edited by kook_10, 10 May 2010 - 08:05 PM.


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#90 Lidstromboli

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 08:07 PM

that's because Leino is a physically dominating offensive monster

it was just the old wings holding him back

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#91 titanium2

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 08:07 PM

My ears must be deceiving me. I just came home from dinner and I thought for a second the guys on Versus described Leino as being "the best player on the ice tonight for either team" after the *second period.


Wish they would've traded away Williams instead of Leino but I guess nobody wanted Williams.

#92 Heroes of Hockeytown

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 08:12 PM

Wish they would've traded away Williams instead of Leino but I guess nobody wanted Williams.

I'm all aboard the Holland train but Willy was a terrible signing, I don't think anybody liked it from the get-go. All our expectations of him were sadly fulfilled during the season and playoffs.
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#93 Yak19

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 08:14 PM

inb4 Leino is Pierre's "Monster of the game" :huh:

Edited by Yak19, 10 May 2010 - 08:17 PM.


#94 Lidstromboli

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 08:15 PM

i remember someone made a thread where they claimed to have talked to Holland and that Williams was going to be signed

and everyone was like, "haha nof****** way will that happen"

then BOOM

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#95 titanium2

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 08:28 PM

i remember someone made a thread where they claimed to have talked to Holland and that Williams was going to be signed

and everyone was like, "haha nof****** way will that happen"

then BOOM


Season was already over at that point, haha.

#96 Lidstromboli

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 08:30 PM

from that point on my hate boner just grew and grew

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#97 Crymson

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 08:56 PM

Who would want Williams? I imagine Holland tried, but Williams was terrible and was only signed for this season. Leino has one more year left on his contract.

As for the signing, it gave the team a right-handed shot for the power play---and don't forget that Williams scored 20 goals last season. This was his first especially terrible season.

Edited by Crymson, 10 May 2010 - 08:57 PM.


#98 GMRwings1983

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 09:27 PM

Leino is playing well because he's surrounded by tough guys. Like newfy suggested in another thread, players play with more balls when they are in a tough lineup. I remember the HBO Flyers documentary this past weekend, where the players said the same thing.

Leino is just feeding off the Flyers aggressive style of play by actually playing with grit and going to scoring areas. If anyone messes with him, he knows his players have his back.
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#99 Finnish Wing

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 09:33 PM

Leino is playing well because he's surrounded by tough guys. Like newfy suggested in another thread, players play with more balls when they are in a tough lineup. I remember the HBO Flyers documentary this past weekend, where the players said the same thing.

Leino is just feeding off the Flyers aggressive style of play by actually playing with grit and going to scoring areas. If anyone messes with him, he knows his players have his back.

He isn't exactly playing with tough guys on his line (Hartnell, Briere) but there's some truth in that. But oo say it's just because of the players around him is stupid. He has stepped up and does all the little things right too. These points are just awards of the hard work he's been doing in every game of these playoffs. He seems somehow WAY more faster than before (kinda like at the first games of the seasons) and he back-checks decently as well.

I'm not bitter, because it was obvious it's not gonna work here. He's a better player for real, that he was here - not because the Flyers.
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#100 GMRwings1983

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 09:37 PM

He isn't exactly playing with tough guys on his line (Hartnell, Briere) but there's some truth in that. But oo say it's just because of the players around him is stupid. He has stepped up and does all the little things right too. These points are just awards of the hard work he's been doing in every game of these playoffs. He seems somehow WAY more faster than before (kinda like at the first games of the seasons) and he back-checks decently as well.

I'm not bitter, because it was obvious it's not gonna work here. He's a better player for real, that he was here - not because the Flyers.


Hartnell is tougher that what Leino had to play with here in Detroit. Even Briere has acted like a wannabee tough guy since joining the Flyers, where in Buffalo he was as quiet as it gets.

In any case, I was talking about the whole team philosophy and not just his linemates. If Leino didn't buy into their style of play, he wouldn't be playing for them.

Edited by GMRwings1983, 10 May 2010 - 09:38 PM.

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