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Hockeytown0001

1/31 GDT: Red Wings 1 at Penguins 2 (SO)

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Guest mindfly
2009-2010 Red Wings: "At least we got the loser point."

Discuss.

Mind Boggling....

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Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA

What makes these game's frustrating for me is just the lack of enthuiasm and desire. The Wing's have the talent, but it honestly looks like most of them are disinterested, and I honestly feel that is a much bigger problem rather than not having talent from all the injuries.

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Idiots, blaming the goalie when you have 18 skaters out there with the top line making over 16 million and what the f*** do they do? 11 SOG through 40 minutes, how pathetic. Zetterberg and Rafalski both need to watch a few games from the pressbox because they both stink....

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What makes these game's frustrating for me is just the lack of enthuiasm and desire. The Wing's have the talent, but it honestly looks like most of them are disinterested, and I honestly feel that is a much bigger problem rather than not having talent from all the injuries.

You are spot on with this. Yes they have had injuries but they look like they are very disinterested this whole season long. This team needs a big wake up now whether it is a big trade a coaching change or just benching some players. They need to start playing playoff hockey Feb.1 or there may not be this year.

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Consistently, yes. wings7 and lilja4mvp fall in the category I described to you. :)

And obviously missing that shot makes everyone hate him, so a bad game to be taking any conclusions from.

Wait, what category am I in? Does this have to do with the fact that I think Filp is overrated and therefore I don't know anything (even if he is overrated)?

Seriously, I've asked before and I'll ask again - Are you Filippula? Is that why you defend him so much?

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So I'm really the only one who questions Flips offensive abilities???

[/quote

Umm, no. I was screaming at him in the first period. Just can't remember why, but like usual it probably had to do with him not shooting at the goal. Again. And losing the puck. Again. And I'm still hoarse from the missed goal.

My take on him is that he is quite good, but you cannot rely on him to be consistent. He simply is not living up to the hype and press expressed not only in the media but on this board. I feel the same way about Rafalski and he's also quite good (mostly) at what he does.

All the other team members take their turns screwing up but in time they seem to correct those consistent errors they make. Neither Flip or Rafalski have done that. They make the same mistakes over and over and there's simply no excuse for that kind of play.

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This isn't really true. He coughs it up with his dumb moves and falls a lot against the boards. He's decent but could have better balance.

If you think he needs better balance go look at how he played 1 or 2 years ago. He has bulked up a lot. Balance is not the issue anymore.

Edited by cjm502

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This isn't really true. He coughs it up with his dumb moves and falls a lot against the boards. He's decent but could have better balance.

You know what, it's obvious there is no arguing with you. You'll probably never stop thinking up reasons why you don't like him, but the fact is he's creating chances, putting up the points and is good defensively. What else is there?

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It was a disappointing effort. The Wings were getting in their own way on the ice. Pittsburgh isn't exactly an elite defensive team but Detroit wasn't getting much in the way of chances.

I tend to agree with Babcock's assessment at the start of the 2nd period to Pierre: The team is out of sorts now that the regulars have returned. They look like they haven't adjusted to one another yet and the skating and timing look off. I expect that to improve in the next few games. Right now, they look like they've taken a step backwards.

As bad as this team is playing right now, they're still hanging around. They do need to start putting together a winning streak, though. This fighting for 8th crap needs to stop.

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There's definitely still more than that...

If it makes you feel any better, I don't hold that shot against him or anything else. Sometimes you just miss s***. It happens. I don't think it was a hard shot to make though as you suggested, though I don't think it's demonstrative of "Flip's terrible shot" that people were blaming it on. I do think he has a bad shot, but it had nothing to do with missing that goal. It was just a fluke thing that happens to lots of guys now and again.

And seeing as I'm not really surprised nor one who expects Flip to be a solid finisher, I wasn't heartbroken or shocked when he whiffed on the the breakaway, and I don't think the hook had anything to do with it.

I don't get down on him in games like this because I don't have elevated expectations of his offensive skills. The reason he's subject to a good deal of bashing from more than just a handful of people as you suggest is because people expect too much out of him based on previous experience with other guys, his contract and the amount of minutes he gets in a scoring role.

To me, it always boils down to my fundamental analysis of the guy: average at best offensive skill set, exceptionally strong defensive abilities.

He's got descent hands at times but has never been able to find it in him to really finish plays consistently. How many times has he made a descent move only to cough up the puck before even getting to the net, failing to get a descent shot off or just plain failing to even get a shot off? His shot is pretty rough for that matter as noted. He's an average passer; not especially good or bad. He oftentimes gets out-muscled and coughs up the puck in the offensive zone along the boards. If the D plays him to the outside, he's not going to get very far. And he does fall, and he falls a lot especially along the boards as previously mentioned.

That doesn't make him a bad player, but if you accept those things, it's not so frustrating when you see him in games like today. No one gets too pissed when other guys botch opportunities because people have more grounded expectations. Being a stronger defensive player isn't a bad thing at all either. Like I've said many times, his defensive skills are great and I think he could be a huge asset to a team that struggled more on defense.

Again, my only beef with him as a Wing is his contract and lack of goals. It's not a personal thing. He's in a tough spot trying to fill a role that I don't think he's suited for in a pressure-filled environment like Detroit. I don't blame him for that.

I mostly agree with you - he is overpaid for his current abilities, however I believe he can still improve in this league. Will he ever be a pure goal scorer? Probably not. I prefer not to label players offensive or defensive, but try to pay attention to all 3 zones. He skates well in the neutral zone particularly, and protects the puck very well. I think he is a slightly above average passer/playmaker. He does get pushed around a bit, but on the plus side he battles in the corners better than many of the wings. My only real complaint is that he's in the same mold as Dats and doesn't want to shoot as much as he should. There is no doubt the loss of 3 trigger men over the offseason hurt and has messed with the balance of this team. Even the shin-pad assassin would be useful right about now.

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Wow... so Howard had a great game.

The boys were good defensively but once again this team is anemic offensively. :(

Really, you thought they were good defensively? The pens - especially in the first half of the game - should have walked away with it if not for JH.

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You know what, it's obvious there is no arguing with you. You'll probably never stop thinking up reasons why you don't like him, but the fact is he's creating chances, putting up the points and is good defensively. What else is there?

It's not about arguing. I didn't ever once say I don't like him, either. I said he is overrated. I will stand by that. I like his defense. I loathe that he gets offensive praise and doesn't really impress out there. Even Babcock said, when asked how excited he was to get Filp back, something to the extent of, "He really won't make that much of a difference scoring wise, so he probably won't be changing too many outcomes."

I didn't even say he is playing bad. But is he overrated? Yes. I don't get why everything he does wrong is excused too. Or why you compared him to Dats at one point. Dats has also been struggling this year, don't get me wrong. But that's not what we are discussing. Filp is overrated. Bottomline.

He's not a goal scorer and we need goals. He also has a tendency to turn the puck over and fall over a lot. Are we watching the same game? He had a few today in the third. He'd be a great third line center for the Red Wings. That's all. He doesn't produce enough to be a #2 Go To Guy.

When totally healthy I'd like to see ---

Bertuzzi - Datsyuk - Holmstrom

Franzen - Zetterburg - Cleary

Williams - Filp - Miller

Eaves - Helm - Draper

Lids - Big E

Rafi - Kron

Stuie - Lilja

Edited by wings7

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If you think he needs better balance go look at how he played 1 or 2 years ago. He has bulked up a lot. Balance is not the issue anymore.

Two things...

Just cause someone has improved from where they were, doesn't mean they don't need MORE improvement.

Bulkiness doesn't equal more balance.

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Really, you thought they were good defensively? The pens - especially in the first half of the game - should have walked away with it if not for JH.

The defense was still helping Jimmy with the rebounds and second chances.

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Really, you thought they were good defensively? The pens - especially in the first half of the game - should have walked away with it if not for JH.

Jimmy did a great job but I think the shot totals were a bit misleading. No doubt the Pens carried the play and had the better of the scoring chances (partly as a function of the Wings being unable to do f***all on offense), but it never struck me as anything particularly out of the ordinary. The shots against were similar to the Preds game, but is there any doubt the Wings had a much better game defensively than they did Friday?

If they had been able to do anything besides pass pucks into each others' skates or dump it in and lose it immediately there wouldn't have seemed to be such a disparity.

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With all the bitching and moaning on this thread, and taking everything and every player into consideration, I would LOVE to see a real show of hands of those who thought the Wings would do as well as they did in this game. Ain't gonna happen, but I can guess.

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