Wings_Dynasty 267 Report post Posted February 2, 2010 Think about it. Not fast, not big, doesn't hit often, doesn't score, and doesn't have a big shot. What exactly does he do that a player making half his salary can't do? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yellowknife Redwing 57 Report post Posted February 2, 2010 (edited) You ought to be ashamed of yourself for being so ungrateful. Rafalski's decline in production has mirrored every single other member of this team. Not even one year ago Rafalski's stats were 78gp 10g 49a 59pts (that was 5th in the LEAGUE, in case you weren't keeping track) +17 and he added 18gp 3g 9a 12pts +11 in a playoff run that got us to game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals. Brian Rafalski is a premiere offensive defenseman who, despite the way this season has gone, has still managed to be top 40 in defenseman scoring in the league with 23 points and have an excellent +/- rating of +14 while on one of the lowest scoring teams in the league that has been crippled by injuries. This is just more "what have you done for me lately" crap that devalues a player that has actually been playing pretty damn well as far as I'm concerned. I bet 90% of the teams in the league wouldn't have a moment's hesitation making room for Rafi's 6 million dollar cap hit if he became available. Edited February 2, 2010 by Yellowknife Redwing Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jamaica Jon 1 Report post Posted February 2, 2010 You ought to be ashamed of yourself for being so ungrateful. Rafalski's decline in production has mirrored every single other member of this team. Not even one year ago Rafalski's stats were 78gp 10g 49a 59pts (that was 5th in the LEAGUE, in case you weren't keeping track) +17 and he added 18gp 3g 9a 12pts +11 in a playoff run that got us to game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals. Brian Rafalski is a premiere offensive defenseman who, despite the way this season has gone, has still managed to be top 40 in defenseman scoring in the league with 23 points and have an excellent +/- rating of +14 while on one of the lowest scoring teams in the league that has been crippled by injuries. This is just more "what have you done for me lately" crap that devalues a player that has actually been playing pretty damn well as far as I'm concerned. I bet 90% of the teams in the league wouldn't have a moment's hesitation making room for Rafi's 6 million dollar cap hit if he became available. Could not have said it any better Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vOrophin 5 Report post Posted February 2, 2010 A little bit. He is still a good defenseman, but he seems to make way too many mistakes (although that may be somewhat skewed by playing next to Lids, who makes so few it is a bit obscene, making it seem like Rafalski makes more). This is a tough season to be asking who is overpaid, since the team as a whole has not done very well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest zackmorris Report post Posted February 2, 2010 (edited) I think he's overpaid in a way that is ok. This is the sacrifice we had to make to get him here. Holland probably knew at one point we'd be overpaying him when his play dips, that was just part of getting him to ink that initial contract to bring him here. He was a huge factor in us winning a Cup and I wouldn't trade that for much, so I'm ok with this. Edited February 2, 2010 by zackmorris Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wings_Dynasty 267 Report post Posted February 2, 2010 You ought to be ashamed of yourself for being so ungrateful. Rafalski's decline in production has mirrored every single other member of this team. Not even one year ago Rafalski's stats were 78gp 10g 49a 59pts (that was 5th in the LEAGUE, in case you weren't keeping track) +17 and he added 18gp 3g 9a 12pts +11 in a playoff run that got us to game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals. Brian Rafalski is a premiere offensive defenseman who, despite the way this season has gone, has still managed to be top 40 in defenseman scoring in the league with 23 points and have an excellent +/- rating of +14 while on one of the lowest scoring teams in the league that has been crippled by injuries. This is just more "what have you done for me lately" crap that devalues a player that has actually been playing pretty damn well as far as I'm concerned. I bet 90% of the teams in the league wouldn't have a moment's hesitation making room for Rafi's 6 million dollar cap hit if he became available. Nope, not ashamed at all. I was pissed the day I heard that his salary was $6 million dollars and I am still pissed. He does nothing for this team except pass on while on the PP and get assists from a used to be dominant 1st squad PP unit. He has not suffered from injuries this season and has had the same role as ever before, partnered with Lidstrom and 1st line PP unit. While I expect the forwards' on the PP unit points to drop off, I DO NOT expect ALL of the defense stats to fall off. Lidstrom is expected to be on the 1st line PP, 1st line PK, and the shut down pairing (along with Rafalski), all Rafalski is supposed to do is play with Lidstrom, make good passes on the PP while staying out of Lidstrom's way, and occasionally pinch in while in the offensive zone. Now, a player making 3 million can do all of that. And be a faster skater, throw hits, and have a slapshot. AND, most importantly, not be a defensive liability when they don't have the puck. He is constantly getting caught out of position while in the offensive zone and losing the puck at the opposing blueline and giving up odd man rushes. And all of this with a no-trade clause. Excellent.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stu in Israel 0 Report post Posted February 2, 2010 I think he's overpaid in a way that is ok. This is the sacrifice we had to make to get him here. Holland probably knew at one point we'd be overpaying him when his play dips, that was just part of getting him to ink that initial contract to bring him here. He was a huge factor in us winning a Cup and I wouldn't trade that for much, so I'm ok with this. Rafalski was signed to replace Mathieu Schneider when Schneider "went West." At that time, one sports pundit wrote: "Red Wings get an 'A' for Plan B." It's almost a surety that for his next contract renewal he won't be getting $6 million. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
russianswede919293 95 Report post Posted February 2, 2010 Rafalski is IMO no better than Brad Stuart overall and should be paid at most 4 million. That said he was worth 6 million 5 years ago when they signed the contract. So it is what it is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
55fan 5,133 Report post Posted February 2, 2010 He took 6 to play at home. He could have gotten more elsewhere. Still, I think he's overpaid in comparison to what the others on our team are making for what he does in comparison to them. I like Raffy, but if he had been a FA last summer, no way would he have gotten 6. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hockeytown0001 7,652 Report post Posted February 2, 2010 Right now, I think he should be making between $3.5-5 million. $6 million is a bit too much. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GSBrooks13 204 Report post Posted February 2, 2010 If you look at it as it stands right now.. than its pretty obvious that this year Rafalski is overpaid.. I dont think anyone can really argue that anything he has done this year warrants 6 million dollars. But there is more than just this year on his contract and considering how well he played for us prior to this I'd say 6 million is pretty fair for a guy who probably could have gotten 6.5 or more somewhere else. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Datsyuk2Zetterberg 1 Report post Posted February 2, 2010 (edited) he is today. And will be tomorrow. But the first few years he wasn't. He took a discount and we benefited the first few years, so in the end it will even out. He is still a top Offensive D man, and I love having him on the team, regardless of the some of the defensive lapses. I'm sure Washington fans don't mind having Green screw up once in a while. Edited February 2, 2010 by Datsyuk2Zetterberg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevkrause 1,247 Report post Posted February 2, 2010 If you look at it as it stands right now.. than its pretty obvious that this year Rafalski is overpaid.. I dont think anyone can really argue that anything he has done this year warrants 6 million dollars. But there is more than just this year on his contract and considering how well he played for us prior to this I'd say 6 million is pretty fair for a guy who probably could have gotten 6.5 or more somewhere else. Just to put things in perspective, he is making more Franzen, Filppula, Stuart and Kronwall and almost the same as Zetterberg... all who have proven more valuable this season.... with that said, he's still a very good offensive d-man and he's not on the US Olympic team for no reason... he took a discount to come here and without him we don't win the cup in '08... take the good with the bad... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingsfan75 2 Report post Posted February 2, 2010 Raffi was brought in to do one thing. Keep us a contender for the Stanley Cup by shoring up the defense. He did that in the first year he played with us. Arguably, without him in 2008 we don't make it all the way. Do you want to trade in that Stanley Cup for a couple more less competitve years? I don't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FinWing 26 Report post Posted February 2, 2010 I think it depends on how you look at it. Right now he is overpaid but over the course of the whole contract the price rounds out to be quite decent. I voted "yes" because right now he's overpaid for what he brings. I hope Raf, Z and Dats step up like Lids has and show why they get the big bucks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brett 1,029 Report post Posted February 2, 2010 hes second in plus/minus and points on a team whose been struggling only behind lids. top 40 in scoring on defense. hes has been turning the puck over alot but who isnt on this team this year. his salary is fine. f*** the haters Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egroen 384 Report post Posted February 2, 2010 (edited) Probably underpaid -- A defenseman who can put up 50+ pts a year is a worth a ton in today's NHL. And Rafalski is decent defensively to boot (better than a lot on this list, for example): Ryan Whitney - $4m Kubina - $5m Wideman - $4m Campbell - $7m Hannan - $4.5m Liles - $4.2m Visnovski - $5.6m Souray - $5.4m Gilbert - $4m McCabe - $5.8m Ballard - $4.2m Johnsson - $4.8m Hamrlik - $5.5m Streit - $4.1m Redden - $6.5m Rozsival - $5m Timonen - $6.3m Jovanovski - $6.5m Blake - $4m Brewer - $4.3m Maszaros - $4m Phaneuf - $6.5m Komisarek - $4.5m Kaberle - $4.3m Green - $5.3m Rafalski is arguably equal to or better than all the earlier listed top-paid defenseman in the NHL. His $6m compares favorably and is still less than many of the following defenseman who are all better than him. Boyle - $6.6m Pronger - $6.3m Weber - $4.5m Markov - $5.8m Lidstrom - $7.4m Bouwmeester - $6.6m Niedermayer - $6.75 Chara - $7.5m Keith - $5.5m Gonchar - $5m Consider the top-scoring defenseman since the lockout are: 1) Lidstrom 303 2) Kaberle 252 3) Niedermayer 247 4) Pronger 244 5) Gonchar 242 6) Rafalski 241 6) Boyle 241 8) Campbell 240 9) Markov 234 10) Phaneuf 228 I'd say Detroit has gotten a fair return (though 1 year was with NJ). You have to pay a premium for high-scoring defenseman like Rafalski. Edited February 2, 2010 by egroen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ZetterbergFourty Report post Posted February 2, 2010 4G 19A 23pts in 51GP for 6 million, he's over paid. Let's get rid of his candyass. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Konnan511 1,736 Report post Posted February 2, 2010 Pre-Cap, that was the going rate for a solid number 2 D-Man. Post-Cap, his cap hit is too much for this team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krayzie_Bone 58 Report post Posted February 2, 2010 Yes he is over paid but it is better than the alternative of not having him. He was an upgrade over Schneider I guess. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightfall 871 Report post Posted February 2, 2010 It amazes me when I look back on all the people who said this was a great signing when it happened. He took a discount to play here in Detroit. The fanbase here all cheered the decision. Now, he is still a top line defenseman and 2nd on the team in +/-. Yet, there are still haters. The more I visit these boards, the less I see of real Red Wings fans. No respect or appreciation is given to those who have played hard every shift. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Lidstromboli Report post Posted February 2, 2010 playing on the top line and having a nice shiny +/- means he's playing well Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SweWings 45 Report post Posted February 2, 2010 In this thread it really comes down to past vs present/future. With a guy like Rafalski you have to look at the entire length of the contract and make a judgement on that and not just the last 2 seasons. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StormJH1 231 Report post Posted February 2, 2010 In this thread it really comes down to past vs present/future. With a guy like Rafalski you have to look at the entire length of the contract and make a judgement on that and not just the last 2 seasons. Exactly. You could take that question and apply it to 90% of the players in the league at some point in their deal and it would be true. But when people view the Rafalski addition in retrospect, he was added at a time we hadn't won a cup since '02, and the guy was critical defensive component for two Finals teams, and scored a huge goal in the cliniching Game 6 of 2008. If we're playing that game, Chris Osgood seems about $3 to $4 million underpaid when he's in the Playoffs, but probably $750,000 overpaid relative to his regular season numbers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Travis 576 Report post Posted February 2, 2010 (edited) Most every hockey player is overpaid. Sure the cap hit hurts, but I'm in the minority here that hasn't bailed on Rafalski. As has been stated by others in this thread - he's been largely solid and it's not like he's the only star whose numbers have declined this year. Besides, most of his shots from the point are head hunters - which are always fun to watch. Edited February 2, 2010 by Travis Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
