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CLutterbuck Destroys Richards


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#21 Doc Holliday

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 01:28 AM

QUOTE (micah @ February 2, 2010 - 11:04PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Now? You new the the NHL? It has always been a league that said "if you're gonna hit my guy, be ready for a fight." Scott Stevens did not have 100+ NHL fights because he went around looking to drop the gloves every chance he could get - he fought relatively often because people held him responsable for his hits. You wanna throw your body around? Awesome! Just be ready to back it up when you knock someone's buddy loopy. It's the way it is and it's the way it's always been in the NHL - and it's the way it should be.


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#22 Howard He Do It?!

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 06:27 AM

Fights after clean hits are stupid.

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#23 dat's sick

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 08:20 AM

QUOTE (titanium2 @ February 3, 2010 - 04:21AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah really. I guess Kronwall isn't the only one. Just someone who gets called on it.

That hit by Lucic that everyone loves, where the glass breaks, is an obvious example of a player jumping into a hit as well. But I've never seen anyone mention it.
It's just that Kronner has gotten a reputation for it, so people see him leaving his feet even when he's not.

#24 edicius

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 09:04 AM

QUOTE (micah @ February 2, 2010 - 11:04PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Now? You new the the NHL? It has always been a league that said "if you're gonna hit my guy, be ready for a fight." Scott Stevens did not have 100+ NHL fights because he went around looking to drop the gloves every chance he could get - he fought relatively often because people held him responsable for his hits. You wanna throw your body around? Awesome! Just be ready to back it up when you knock someone's buddy loopy. It's the way it is and it's the way it's always been in the NHL - and it's the way it should be.


Stevens also threw a lot of dirty hits, so those fights are understandable.

It's not the fighting after dirty hits that irks us, it's the fighting after perfectly clean hits - which is what Clutterbuck's hit was.

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#25 micah

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 09:37 AM

QUOTE (edicius @ February 3, 2010 - 10:04AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Stevens also threw a lot of dirty hits, so those fights are understandable.

It's not the fighting after dirty hits that irks us, it's the fighting after perfectly clean hits - which is what Clutterbuck's hit was.


I disagree. If you're reasonably tough, you don't let your teammate get lit up, legal or not, without a little punnishment in hopes that next time, the hitter hesitates. This is NOT new stuff. Semenko and McSorely used to fight people for breathing on Gretzky too hard. There has never been an understood requirement for a hit to be dirty in order for a fight to spring from it. If you're going to throw your body around, that's great, just be ready for the people who don't appreciate such.

And to whoever responded re stevens - very, VERY few of his fights were in response to dirty hits - they were in response to big, clean hits.
"It was pretty interesting," said Detroit coach Mike Babcock. "We had May in exhibition for a couple of games and no one gets hacked or whacked. When we don't have him, we get run. We don't have a team that twists off helmets at stoppages. You get tired of seeing it all the time. It's just nice when you get someone to look after that stuff."

#26 SweWings

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 09:42 AM

Now that's a HIT! Beautifully brutal!

#27 Doc Holliday

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 11:11 AM

QUOTE (micah @ February 3, 2010 - 09:37AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I disagree. If you're reasonably tough, you don't let your teammate get lit up, legal or not, without a little punnishment in hopes that next time, the hitter hesitates. This is NOT new stuff. Semenko and McSorely used to fight people for breathing on Gretzky too hard. There has never been an understood requirement for a hit to be dirty in order for a fight to spring from it. If you're going to throw your body around, that's great, just be ready for the people who don't appreciate such.

And to whoever responded re stevens - very, VERY few of his fights were in response to dirty hits - they were in response to big, clean hits.


Why not fight after goals and pokechecks too? I mean if you expect to do something bad to the other team you might as well fight for everything.

If it was Richards who wanted to fight I'm fine with that. That is his battle. Ott has his own battles to fight (which he doesn't do that often) and doesn't need to worry about defending the honor of a teammate who just got leveled because of his own actions.

It's hockey brah. Play the game like it.

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#28 jollymania

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 11:24 AM

QUOTE (micah @ February 3, 2010 - 08:37AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I disagree. If you're reasonably tough, you don't let your teammate get lit up, legal or not, without a little punnishment in hopes that next time, the hitter hesitates. This is NOT new stuff. Semenko and McSorely used to fight people for breathing on Gretzky too hard. There has never been an understood requirement for a hit to be dirty in order for a fight to spring from it. If you're going to throw your body around, that's great, just be ready for the people who don't appreciate such.

And to whoever responded re stevens - very, VERY few of his fights were in response to dirty hits - they were in response to big, clean hits.

ever heard of hitting someone back?, you have a greater possibility of sending someone to mars and making them timid with a hit than a fight. And another thing, clearly fighting won't deter guys like Kronwall or Clutterbuck. The fights after clean hits disrupt the flow of the game.
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#29 Opie

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 11:26 AM

QUOTE (jollymania @ February 3, 2010 - 04:24PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
ever heard of hitting someone back?, you have a greater possibility of sending someone to mars and making them timid with a hit than a fight. And another thing, clearly fighting won't deter guys like Kronwall or Clutterbuck. The fights after clean hits disrupt the flow of the game.


And in some instances has cost teams a breakaway and a clean scoring chance (See Vancouver earlier this year)!

BTW thanks for letting me piggy back!

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“Told him if he wasn't ultra-competitive he couldn't come here. If he didn't bring it every day he couldn't come here, because he was going to hate it if he didn't, dislike the coach and dislike playing here.
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#30 micah

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 11:59 AM

QUOTE (Doc Holliday @ February 3, 2010 - 12:11PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why not fight after goals and pokechecks too? I mean if you expect to do something bad to the other team you might as well fight for everything.


Would you say that pokechecks and goals are more, equally or less likely to cause a player to get hurt than a huge (legal or not) check? That's why.

QUOTE (Doc Holliday @ February 3, 2010 - 12:11PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's hockey brah. Play the game like it.


Excuse me?
"It was pretty interesting," said Detroit coach Mike Babcock. "We had May in exhibition for a couple of games and no one gets hacked or whacked. When we don't have him, we get run. We don't have a team that twists off helmets at stoppages. You get tired of seeing it all the time. It's just nice when you get someone to look after that stuff."

#31 micah

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 12:07 PM

QUOTE (jollymania @ February 3, 2010 - 12:24PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
ever heard of hitting someone back?, you have a greater possibility of sending someone to mars and making them timid with a hit than a fight.



I didn't realise it was an either/or. You never know if you'll have an opportunity for that big legal hit. I have no qualms with someone who fights or legally but explosively hits an opponent who ran their teammate. Ideally, they'd do both.


QUOTE (jollymania @ February 3, 2010 - 12:24PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The fights after clean hits disrupt the flow of the game.



Did you hear how pissed off the fans got when the flow of the game was disrupted? It was just awful. I bet they all quit liking hockey after those unfortunate disruptions.

"It was pretty interesting," said Detroit coach Mike Babcock. "We had May in exhibition for a couple of games and no one gets hacked or whacked. When we don't have him, we get run. We don't have a team that twists off helmets at stoppages. You get tired of seeing it all the time. It's just nice when you get someone to look after that stuff."

#32 Opie

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 12:11 PM

HAHAHA defend your player from potential injury by fighting on a clean hit.

I have a better idea, if you are Ott, next time you are on the bench next to Richards, tell him to look both ways before crossing the street.

Where does this logic end, well it is the second face off of the game and Kronwall is on the ice, he is known for hitting, as a coach do I send my fighter out to "prevent" an injury?

No, it is hockey, if you can not take a hit, this game is simply not for you (you meant in general). Richards, Umburger, and others have a habit for skating around looking at the puck, not a good habit to have.

Fighting over these hits is further proof the lack of respect players have for each other is growing.

And your posts about this being a part of the game since way back are off based. Guys would get up and get retaliation on their own, that is all that this is, your injury prevention theory is crap, it is retribution and retaliation.

Hitting is part of the game, if my linemate gets his teeth knocked out from a clean hit, I would give him a number to a good dentist and Dr. Rahmani to have his vision checked. Then after practices I would skate around, allow him to hold the puck and I will come out from behind huge cut outs to help him practice seeing hits coming.

How often does Dats get hit like this? Why? Because he alludes the hit, not only does he know where the puck is at all times he knows where the other 9 skaters are on the ice. He is even so good at it he hurts players that miss him, or leads them to collide with teammates. Checking and avoiding checks/ Ice vision are both skill sets needed to play the game!

"The more I know about people - the better I like my dog." - Mark Twain

"A wise man once told me, ‘Don’t argue with fools. Cause people from a distance can’t tell who is who'." Jay Z, Takeover

"When I was looking for a captain, I wanted a guy with the Red Wings crest tattooed on his chest," said former Detroit coach Jacques Demers, who named Yzerman captain in 1986. "Steve Yzerman was that guy."

“Told him if he wasn't ultra-competitive he couldn't come here. If he didn't bring it every day he couldn't come here, because he was going to hate it if he didn't, dislike the coach and dislike playing here.
“It's real straightforward. If you don't do it right, you're not happy here." Babcock

#33 F.Michael

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 12:15 PM

QUOTE (micah @ February 3, 2010 - 12:04AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Now? You new the the NHL? It has always been a league that said "if you're gonna hit my guy, be ready for a fight." Scott Stevens did not have 100+ NHL fights because he went around looking to drop the gloves every chance he could get - he fought relatively often because people held him responsable for his hits. You wanna throw your body around? Awesome! Just be ready to back it up when you knock someone's buddy loopy. It's the way it is and it's the way it's always been in the NHL - and it's the way it should be.

This.

QUOTE (GMRwings1983 @ February 3, 2010 - 12:33AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's a pity Clutterbuck didn't hit Ott with that bodycheck and then fight Richards.

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QUOTE (edicius @ February 3, 2010 - 10:04AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Stevens also threw a lot of dirty hits, so those fights are understandable.

It's not the fighting after dirty hits that irks us, it's the fighting after perfectly clean hits - which is what Clutterbuck's hit was.

Clutterbuck has developed a rep these past few seasons of borderline hits...Like Micah posted earlier - if you're gonna take a run at a star player - you better be prepared to stand up for yourself...This is certainly nothing new in this league.

QUOTE (Doc Holliday @ February 3, 2010 - 12:11PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why not fight after goals and pokechecks too? I mean if you expect to do something bad to the other team you might as well fight for everything.

Now don't start getting silly rolleyes.gif

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#34 Opie

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 12:16 PM

QUOTE (micah @ February 3, 2010 - 05:07PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Did you hear how pissed off the fans got when the flow of the game was disrupted? It was just awful. I bet they all quit liking hockey after those unfortunate disruptions.


They sounded just as pissed as they did right after the huge hit!

Point being what fans do and do not like has nothing to do with this argument the argument is not how to build a fan base, it is are these fights after a clean hit warranted.

Fans are going to cheer for a fight regardless of whether or not it was legit or a complete one sided sucker punch, do Nashville fans not cheer after Tootoo cheapshots someone while they are dropping there gloves?

You like fights, you want more of them, you don't care what they are for or why they started, we get that!

"The more I know about people - the better I like my dog." - Mark Twain

"A wise man once told me, ‘Don’t argue with fools. Cause people from a distance can’t tell who is who'." Jay Z, Takeover

"When I was looking for a captain, I wanted a guy with the Red Wings crest tattooed on his chest," said former Detroit coach Jacques Demers, who named Yzerman captain in 1986. "Steve Yzerman was that guy."

“Told him if he wasn't ultra-competitive he couldn't come here. If he didn't bring it every day he couldn't come here, because he was going to hate it if he didn't, dislike the coach and dislike playing here.
“It's real straightforward. If you don't do it right, you're not happy here." Babcock

#35 micah

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 12:26 PM

QUOTE (Opie @ February 3, 2010 - 01:11PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
HAHAHA defend your player from potential injury by fighting on a clean hit.

I have a better idea, if you are Ott, next time you are on the bench next to Richards, tell him to look both ways before crossing the street.



Why not fight AND tell your teammate to keep his head up? Again, it isn't an either/or.

Probert was not in the wrong for punching McGuire after Yzerman started a fight with him. He was in the right. sure, he should have (and liley did) tell stevie that he shouldn't be fighting tough guys, but that isn't where it ends. You don't let people hurt your teammates - even when they have it coming.

QUOTE (Opie @ February 3, 2010 - 01:11PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Where does this logic end, well it is the second face off of the game and Kronwall is on the ice, he is known for hitting, as a coach do I send my fighter out to "prevent" an injury?


Nope. You (if you're say, Derek Boogard) say "I saw that hit you put on so-and-so last week. What a beauty. Did you see that fight where I put my fist inside Todd Fedoruk's head? that's you if you try that against any of my guys."

QUOTE (Opie @ February 3, 2010 - 01:11PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And your posts about this being a part of the game since way back are off based. Guys would get up and get retaliation on their own, that is all that this is, your injury prevention theory is crap, it is retribution and retaliation.


Do you really believe that Mcsorely and Semenko had zero impact on the amount of rough stuff Gretzky absorbed? The guy was lit up a couple of times in his whole career - partly because he had great vision, and partly because people knew that if they hit Gretzky, they would get hit much harder by the fists of a stronger, tougher, meaner man.

QUOTE (Opie @ February 3, 2010 - 01:11PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hitting is part of the game, if my linemate gets his teeth knocked out from a clean hit, I would give him a number to a good dentist and Dr. Rahmani to have his vision checked. Then after practices I would skate around, allow him to hold the puck and I will come out from behind huge cut outs to help him practice seeing hits coming.

How often does Dats get hit like this? Why? Because he alludes the hit, not only does he know where the puck is at all times he knows where the other 9 skaters are on the ice. He is even so good at it he hurts players that miss him, or leads them to collide with teammates. Checking and avoiding checks/ Ice vision are both skill sets needed to play the game!


Dats eludes hits well. That's great for Dats. Not all players can or do. Again, it isn't clear to me why so many want to paint this as "Do this instead of this!" I say, "keep your head up, don't get hit, AND don't let people blow up your teammates".

Edited by micah, 03 February 2010 - 12:28 PM.

"It was pretty interesting," said Detroit coach Mike Babcock. "We had May in exhibition for a couple of games and no one gets hacked or whacked. When we don't have him, we get run. We don't have a team that twists off helmets at stoppages. You get tired of seeing it all the time. It's just nice when you get someone to look after that stuff."

#36 F.Michael

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 12:28 PM

QUOTE (Opie @ February 3, 2010 - 01:11PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
HAHAHA defend your player from potential injury by fighting on a clean hit.

I have a better idea, if you are Ott, next time you are on the bench next to Richards, tell him to look both ways before crossing the street.

Where does this logic end, well it is the second face off of the game and Kronwall is on the ice, he is known for hitting, as a coach do I send my fighter out to "prevent" an injury?

No, it is hockey, if you can not take a hit, this game is simply not for you (you meant in general). Richards, Umburger, and others have a habit for skating around looking at the puck, not a good habit to have.

Fighting over these hits is further proof the lack of respect players have for each other is growing.

And your posts about this being a part of the game since way back are off based. Guys would get up and get retaliation on their own, that is all that this is, your injury prevention theory is crap, it is retribution and retaliation.

Hitting is part of the game, if my linemate gets his teeth knocked out from a clean hit, I would give him a number to a good dentist and Dr. Rahmani to have his vision checked. Then after practices I would skate around, allow him to hold the puck and I will come out from behind huge cut outs to help him practice seeing hits coming.

How often does Dats get hit like this? Why? Because he alludes the hit, not only does he know where the puck is at all times he knows where the other 9 skaters are on the ice. He is even so good at it he hurts players that miss him, or leads them to collide with teammates. Checking and avoiding checks/ Ice vision are both skill sets needed to play the game!

My point of posting this video is to show that fighting after what could be deemed a clean hit is certainly not some new phenomenon




EDIT - man do I miss that passion/intensity in those days!

Edited by F.Michael, 03 February 2010 - 12:31 PM.


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#37 elriqo28

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 12:41 PM

QUOTE (Konnan511 @ February 2, 2010 - 10:10PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Brutal first hit and stupid fight after it for no reason.

stupid and Ott are interchangeable!

#38 Opie

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 12:51 PM

While it may not be new (I never argued it was new) but it has seen a drastic rise in occurrence. It used to be if you destroyed a guy, or went after the 'C'. Now it is any hit on anybody that looks big.

Now if a third of fourth line guy gets lit up, there is retaliation.

Regardless if your guy had his head down or not. Retaliation for big hits to cover Gretz, sure name me another player that had the impact that Gretz had and was protected like he was, was Messier or Kurri protected like that, nope. You know why, Gretz was a once in a lifetime player, and one of the first NHLers that could not defend himself in any way shape or form. Players before him, like Howe, and the like defended themselves and didn't need anybody's help. They played in an era with basically socks and foam for padding, yet they didn't have to come to the rescue of their star players.

Gretz changed more than just how the game is played, he changed the way the players acted in the game. Of course he never did anything dirty, he couldn't protect himself from Me if he had too.

Again I ask who protected Messier? Would he not be the equivalent to Richards on the stars, or would he be Kurri? So then who protected Kurri?

Nobody, so because in 198whatever McSorely defended one player it now means that any one can start a fight over a clean hit.

This is the equivalent to your girlfriend dumping you and hitting on me, sure you want to kick my ass, but what did I do to deserve the ass kicking? I was just hanging out drinking at the bar.

Clutterbuck was hanging out at the bar, Richards play screamed "Hey, I am a newly single girl, want to stick it in my ass". Clutterbuck being the guy he is felt obligated to take advantage of the situation put in front of him. But he did nothing illegal, committed no foul on an unwritten rule, he just played the game the way it was intended, and that merits a fight?

It has gone overboard and now it is for any and almost every big hit.

You honestly don't think the frequency in these actions has gone up drastically in the last I don't know say 5-7 years?

This is no longer about defending your 'C' or best player, it is about revenge for big hit.

"The more I know about people - the better I like my dog." - Mark Twain

"A wise man once told me, ‘Don’t argue with fools. Cause people from a distance can’t tell who is who'." Jay Z, Takeover

"When I was looking for a captain, I wanted a guy with the Red Wings crest tattooed on his chest," said former Detroit coach Jacques Demers, who named Yzerman captain in 1986. "Steve Yzerman was that guy."

“Told him if he wasn't ultra-competitive he couldn't come here. If he didn't bring it every day he couldn't come here, because he was going to hate it if he didn't, dislike the coach and dislike playing here.
“It's real straightforward. If you don't do it right, you're not happy here." Babcock

#39 micah

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 01:02 PM

QUOTE (Opie @ February 3, 2010 - 01:51PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Retaliation for big hits to cover Gretz, sure name me another player that had the impact that Gretz had and was protected like he was...



Mario. Yzerman (though he didn't have that impact, he was as well protected)


QUOTE (Opie @ February 3, 2010 - 01:51PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
...was Messier or Kurri protected like that, nope.


Sure they were. Kurri in particular.

QUOTE (Opie @ February 3, 2010 - 01:51PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Players before him, like Howe, and the like defended themselves and didn't need anybody's help. They played in an era with basically socks and foam for padding, yet they didn't have to come to the rescue of their star players.



In his book, Howe talked about cheapshotting opponents behind the play in retaliation for hitting Howe, embarassing Howe, or hurting his teammates.

QUOTE (Opie @ February 3, 2010 - 01:51PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Again I ask who protected Messier? Would he not be the equivalent to Richards on the stars, or would he be Kurri? So then who protected Kurri?


Semenko and McSorely.

QUOTE (Opie @ February 3, 2010 - 01:51PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You honestly don't think the frequency in these actions has gone up drastically in the last I don't know say 5-7 years?


I haven't noticed it, no.
"It was pretty interesting," said Detroit coach Mike Babcock. "We had May in exhibition for a couple of games and no one gets hacked or whacked. When we don't have him, we get run. We don't have a team that twists off helmets at stoppages. You get tired of seeing it all the time. It's just nice when you get someone to look after that stuff."

#40 micah

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 01:02 PM

QUOTE (Opie @ February 3, 2010 - 01:51PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Retaliation for big hits to cover Gretz, sure name me another player that had the impact that Gretz had and was protected like he was...



Mario. Yzerman (though he didn't have that impact, he was as well protected)


QUOTE (Opie @ February 3, 2010 - 01:51PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
...was Messier or Kurri protected like that, nope.


Sure they were. Kurri in particular.

QUOTE (Opie @ February 3, 2010 - 01:51PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Players before him, like Howe, and the like defended themselves and didn't need anybody's help. They played in an era with basically socks and foam for padding, yet they didn't have to come to the rescue of their star players.



In his book, Howe talked about cheapshotting opponents behind the play in retaliation for hitting Howe, embarassing Howe, or hurting his teammates.

QUOTE (Opie @ February 3, 2010 - 01:51PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Again I ask who protected Messier? Would he not be the equivalent to Richards on the stars, or would he be Kurri? So then who protected Kurri?


Semenko and McSorely.

QUOTE (Opie @ February 3, 2010 - 01:51PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You honestly don't think the frequency in these actions has gone up drastically in the last I don't know say 5-7 years?


I haven't noticed it, no.
"It was pretty interesting," said Detroit coach Mike Babcock. "We had May in exhibition for a couple of games and no one gets hacked or whacked. When we don't have him, we get run. We don't have a team that twists off helmets at stoppages. You get tired of seeing it all the time. It's just nice when you get someone to look after that stuff."





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