Should Valtteri Filppula be traded?

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Well technically, he is on pace for 28.94 goals/year which is close enough to 30. If he only picks up the pace a little he gets 30 which is about what was expected. 1 goal on Sunday puts him on pace for 30.

Every offseason, someone starts a thread about him getting 50 goals.

It looked possible a few years ago, but he's definitely not the goal scorer he used to be.

30 goals is too low for someone with that talent playing on the top line of a very skilled team.

[Shaman 713]

Every offseason, someone starts a thread about him getting 50 goals.

It looked possible a few years ago, but he's definitely not the goal scorer he used to be.

30 goals is too low for someone with that talent playing on the top line of a very skilled team.

Hate to EVER say anything you'll probably agree with, but Zetterberg and Dats need a power forward on the line with them to create time and space so Z can get more quality chances.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Hate to EVER say anything you'll probably agree with, but Zetterberg and Dats need a power forward on the line with them to create time and space so Z can get more quality chances.

Franzen?

[Guest Stolberg]

Shows up in the playoffs? He doesn't do poorly, but, I would say based on the sample size he doesn't take it up to the next level like Zetterberg and Franzen do, and like Fedorov did...

well no s***

how many players do?

[Shaman 713]

well no s***

how many players do?

Just off the top of my head...

Malkin, Crosby, Getzlaf, Ward, M. Richards, (small sample size) Leino, Kane, Pronger... I am sure there are more, but these are the players I think of when I think of 'really step it up come playoff time'.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

No.

Ok, since other topics always seem to be hijacked over this question, I will make a thread for all the discussion.

I keep saying the only reason I'd think about moving Flip is because he is the most movable of all the players on Detroit, he would get the best return, and since Detroit is deep on center, he realistically is our 3rd line center which would be a waste of his offensive abilities since he wouldn't have any talent with him to finish, and if he plays 1st/2nd line on the wing some of his defensive ability would be lost (which is arguably his greatest asset) because wings arent supposed to be as defensively responsible as the center.

Personally there is one trade id make

Flip and Lebda and a 2nd for Olesz in Florida. Other than this one trade i really don't see many deals that would give the wings a good enough return to move him.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Talent report on Olesz:

A player without any glaring weakness, Olesz is a character guy who gives everything to the team's success. He is offensively talented, well-balanced and always showing a nasty edge in his play. Olesz plays a combative style and is a good hitter. He is a valuable asset to both powerplay and penalty killing units. A solid skater with a decent agility, Olesz impresses with his excellent lower-body strength. He has a sharp hockey sense and vision. Also very good in the faceoff circle, Olesz emerges as both a smart passer and a strong finisher. He possesses a good variety of shots, he could only fire the puck more often. Olesz impresses with his strong defensive awareness, he limits the opposing players' options effectively. A mature player, he doesn't tend to take shifts off.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

So, I am sure everyone has their opinion/expectations/etc

And why do you dislike Filppula so much? I'm very curious to know. If it is because you think if it is annoying that people think highly of him in here, then your annoyance should be with people in here, not Filppula.

[Buppy 1,720]

Just off the top of my head...

Malkin, Crosby, Getzlaf, Ward, M. Richards, (small sample size) Leino, Kane, Pronger... I am sure there are more, but these are the players I think of when I think of 'really step it up come playoff time'.

Are you really comparing a bunch of superstars to Filppula? Aside from Leino, who had one great year, none of those players should be compared to Flip.

Flip has a higher PPG in the playoffs than he does in the regular season. You know who can't say the same? Zetterberg. And Crosby. And Malkin. And Getzlaf. Richards just barely, primarily due to his abnormally low regular season total last year. Leino has had one playoff. Ward and Kane have two, one really good one that skews the stats a little. Pronger is a beast, but he's also probably the 2nd best defenseman this generation and a sure fire first ballot hall of famer.

Flip's not a superstar, but he most certainly does step up his play in the playoffs. Of course the players you listed (except Leino) are better. If Flip was on their level, he'd be on another team because we couldn't afford him.

[lookalive07 251]

Flip has a higher PPG in the playoffs than he does in the regular season. You know who can't say the same? Zetterberg. And Crosby. And Malkin. And Getzlaf. Richards just barely, primarily due to his abnormally low regular season total last year. Leino has had one playoff. Ward and Kane have two, one really good one that skews the stats a little. Pronger is a beast, but he's also probably the 2nd best defenseman this generation and a sure fire first ballot hall of famer.

False.

Valtteri Filppula

2007-08 playoffs:

GP: 22

G: 5

A: 6

PTS: 11

2008-09 playoffs:

GP: 23

G: 3

A: 13

PTS: 16

2009-10 playoffs:

GP: 12

G: 4

A: 5

PTS: 9

Henrik Zetterberg

2007-08 playoffs:

GP: 22

G: 13

A: 14

PTS: 27

2008-09 playoffs:

GP: 23

G: 11

A: 13

PTS: 24

2009-10 playoffs:

GP: 12

G: 7

A: 8

PTS: 15

I don't see what you mean I guess.

Edited December 25, 2010 by lookalive07

[Guest Stolberg]

way to cherrypick stats

[Shaman 713]

No.

And why do you dislike Filppula so much? I'm very curious to know. If it is because you think if it is annoying that people think highly of him in here, then your annoyance should be with people in here, not Filppula.

I don't hate Filppula is that he has a lot of potential but he never quite lives up to it... he always seems to be on the cusp of breaking out to be a 60 point player but then he cools down and plays mediocre for a few games. If he were a 3rd line guy that would be just fine, a 3rd line center putting up 40+ points is a wonderful thing to have, but as a second line center its just puts that much more pressure on the first line to produce. If you follow other teams, you'll see teams without balanced scoring don't do too well in the playoffs. Then on top of it would be the Flip slappies on here, like Konnan and Z and D for C who always swear up and down in the off season the next season will be his break out season, but then go apes*** whenever anyone calls out flip for not playing like we all know he can. I hate to say this but I am really playing foil to those two people on here, because the way they talk it should seem that Flip is a beast and that its the rest of the team thats letting him down. As I said I don't hate him, I do believe there are better options for second line center, and if you hate me for that, so be it.

Are you really comparing a bunch of superstars to Filppula? Aside from Leino, who had one great year, none of those players should be compared to Flip.

Flip has a higher PPG in the playoffs than he does in the regular season. You know who can't say the same? Zetterberg. And Crosby. And Malkin. And Getzlaf. Richards just barely, primarily due to his abnormally low regular season total last year. Leino has had one playoff. Ward and Kane have two, one really good one that skews the stats a little. Pronger is a beast, but he's also probably the 2nd best defenseman this generation and a sure fire first ballot hall of famer.

Flip's not a superstar, but he most certainly does step up his play in the playoffs. Of course the players you listed (except Leino) are better. If Flip was on their level, he'd be on another team because we couldn't afford him.

Flip is a good player in the playoffs, but, again its very very streaky, its not like Zetterberg or other players who really turn it on for the playoffs, and with less than 90+ games played in the post season its hard to tell if its really a trend or just anomalies. The rest of this season will be a great benchmark for what Flip's true potential is, whether he is a legit second line center or a very good 3rd line center.

Edited December 25, 2010 by Shaman464

[lookalive07 251]

way to cherrypick stats

If I wasn't going to do it, someone else would have.

[Buppy 1,720]

False.

...I don't see what you mean I guess.

I don't hate Filppula is that he has a lot of potential but he never quite lives up to it... he always seems to be on the cusp of breaking out to be a 60 point player but then he cools down and plays mediocre for a few games. If he were a 3rd line guy that would be just fine, a 3rd line center putting up 40+ points is a wonderful thing to have, but as a second line center its just puts that much more pressure on the first line to produce. ....

You two seem a little confused about what I was saying.

Zetterberg

PPG Regular season: 0.95

PPG Playoffs: 0.94

Crosby

PPG Regular: 1.39

PPG playoffs: 1.32

Malkin

PPG regular: 1.21

PPG playoffs: 1.18

Getzlaf

PPG regular: 0.94

PPG playoffs: 0.84

Filppula

PPG regular: 0.45

PPG playoffs: 0.55

You'll notice that Flip is the only one of those five whose playoff PPG is higher than their regular season PPG. While the other four are certainly much better players, they are also paid much more. Flip also has the best point/cap hit in the playoffs of all those players.

You also seem to have a very misguided notion of what a second line center is supposed to be. Last year, there were 57 centers who scored 40 or more points. There were 25 who scored 60 or more. Only 53 forwards who scored 60 or more.

40+ points IS a decent second line NHL center. Malkin is not the standard for a good second line center. 60+ points pretty much means first line talent.

On a Cup caliber team, the standards are higher of course, but that is less an indictment of Flip than it is praise of the Wings. He is certainly no worse than the 5th best forward on the team, and I think it's pretty close between him and Cleary for that spot. Flip's detractors seem to think he either needs to be a consistent scorer or relegated to the third line. The truth is if he could consistently produce points the way he does when he's 'on', that would pretty much make him Datsyuk/Zetterberg, and he'd be commanding twice the salary, and thus playing for another team. You can't compare him to Zetterberg and other superstar players. But some people seem to be under the impression that Flip has to be at that level to be considered valuable.

Another thing people complain about how long we've been waiting for Flip to break out, as if certain fans' unrealistic expections determine how successful a player is. A couple years ago, people expected a lot from Flip. People also expected him to center a second line with Franzen and Hossa. Considering he spent the majority of the year centering the third line with Hudler and Sammy, with minimal PP time, 40 points in 80 games WAS a lot. Put him in the top 200 in PPG, top 160 in points, among forwards...fringe 2nd line territory. People expected a lot last year. But who expected him to spend a third of the season out with injury and another third playing with the likes of Leino (Detroit version), Williams, Miller, Abby, etc. Despite that, he was still top 170 in points, and top 120 in PPG. Solidly 2nd line production. In one 31 game stretch after he came back from his injury, he scored 27 points. 31 games is pretty long to be considered an aberrant streak. That's a protracted run of top-line caliber production. The only way you can complain about anything prior to this season is if you ignore circumstance or have insanely unrealistic standards.

The guy has real talent offensively. Easily a 2nd-liner by league-wide standards. While his point totals are a bit disappointing thus far this season, people really need to stop judging him by an all-star standard. Need to realize that players like him are going to be streaky and inconsistent scorers, thus why he makes $3M instead of $6M. Realize that a few good games, like the 8 points in 3 games he had last year, would bump him right up close to the 60 point pace people think he should be at.

I would trade him for a ~35+ goal scorer in a heartbeat, because the team needs someone like that a lot more than we need someone like Flip. But I'm not going to rag on the kid for not being something he's neither expected to be, nor is paid to be.

[Shaman 713]

You two seem a little confused about what I was saying.

Zetterberg

PPG Regular season: 0.95

PPG Playoffs: 0.94

Crosby

PPG Regular: 1.39

PPG playoffs: 1.32

Malkin

PPG regular: 1.21

PPG playoffs: 1.18

Getzlaf

PPG regular: 0.94

PPG playoffs: 0.84

Filppula

PPG regular: 0.45

PPG playoffs: 0.55

You'll notice that Flip is the only one of those five whose playoff PPG is higher than their regular season PPG. While the other four are certainly much better players, they are also paid much more. Flip also has the best point/cap hit in the playoffs of all those players.

You also seem to have a very misguided notion of what a second line center is supposed to be. Last year, there were 57 centers who scored 40 or more points. There were 25 who scored 60 or more. Only 53 forwards who scored 60 or more.

40+ points IS a decent second line NHL center. Malkin is not the standard for a good second line center. 60+ points pretty much means first line talent.

On a Cup caliber team, the standards are higher of course, but that is less an indictment of Flip than it is praise of the Wings. He is certainly no worse than the 5th best forward on the team, and I think it's pretty close between him and Cleary for that spot. Flip's detractors seem to think he either needs to be a consistent scorer or relegated to the third line. The truth is if he could consistently produce points the way he does when he's 'on', that would pretty much make him Datsyuk/Zetterberg, and he'd be commanding twice the salary, and thus playing for another team. You can't compare him to Zetterberg and other superstar players. But some people seem to be under the impression that Flip has to be at that level to be considered valuable.

Another thing people complain about how long we've been waiting for Flip to break out, as if certain fans' unrealistic expections determine how successful a player is. A couple years ago, people expected a lot from Flip. People also expected him to center a second line with Franzen and Hossa. Considering he spent the majority of the year centering the third line with Hudler and Sammy, with minimal PP time, 40 points in 80 games WAS a lot. Put him in the top 200 in PPG, top 160 in points, among forwards...fringe 2nd line territory. People expected a lot last year. But who expected him to spend a third of the season out with injury and another third playing with the likes of Leino (Detroit version), Williams, Miller, Abby, etc. Despite that, he was still top 170 in points, and top 120 in PPG. Solidly 2nd line production. In one 31 game stretch after he came back from his injury, he scored 27 points. 31 games is pretty long to be considered an aberrant streak. That's a protracted run of top-line caliber production. The only way you can complain about anything prior to this season is if you ignore circumstance or have insanely unrealistic standards.

The guy has real talent offensively. Easily a 2nd-liner by league-wide standards. While his point totals are a bit disappointing thus far this season, people really need to stop judging him by an all-star standard. Need to realize that players like him are going to be streaky and inconsistent scorers, thus why he makes $3M instead of $6M. Realize that a few good games, like the 8 points in 3 games he had last year, would bump him right up close to the 60 point pace people think he should be at.

I would trade him for a ~35+ goal scorer in a heartbeat, because the team needs someone like that a lot more than we need someone like Flip. But I'm not going to rag on the kid for not being something he's neither expected to be, nor is paid to be.

Had to give you a plus, not for the stats, but the honesty in your explanation, you said a lot of what I have tried to say over the course of this thread, but not nearly as well.

[Datsyerberger 279]

No, not unless it's for an obvious overpayment.

He's good enough to center a second line, allowing us to pair up Dats and Z at a whim, but likewise defensive enough he can be moved down a line if Babs wants to split them. He skates well and can put in a reasonable effort in all situations. And though his goalscoring isn't prolific (I'd give him 20 goals on a healthy prime year), the goals he does score tend to be very timely. He's rarely adding in a goal on an already established lead; his goals always seem to come when the Wings are down and need some, or to open the Wings scoring.

You simply don't trade a player like Flip (especially at his price tag) unless something better comes along for a similar price, and that quite frankly doesn't happen very often.

Edited December 25, 2010 by Datsyerberger

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

No, not unless it's for an obvious overpayment.

He's good enough to center a second line, allowing us to pair up Dats and Z at a whim, but likewise defensive enough he can be moved down a line if Babs wants to split them. He skates well and can put in a reasonable effort in all situations. And though his goalscoring isn't prolific (I'd give him 20 goals on a healthy prime year), the goals he does score tend to be very timely. He's rarely adding in a goal on an already established lead; his goals always seem to come when the Wings are down and need some, or to open the Wings scoring.

You simply don't trade a player like Flip (especially at his price tag) unless something better comes along for a similar price, and that quite frankly doesn't happen very often.

You mean a player who's barely on pace for 40 points?

Seems hardly irreplaceable. His price tag isn't high because he's not really all that special.

[Motown4013 350]

I also think that while we are concentrating on the offense, it would be a mistake not to mention how valuable his defensive game is. Val is an extremely hard worker in every area but because he isnt on a big point streak right now, this Trade him thread continues to roll.

It is very possible for Flip to get 60 pts this year. We all know that he is streaky offensively, but he NEVER disappoints in his own end. For what we pay him, he adds a ton on depth to this team and his upside drastcially outweighs the parts of his game that need work.

[Motown4013 350]

You mean a player who's barely on pace for 40 points?

Seems hardly irreplaceable. His price tag isn't high because he's not really all that special.

You are wrong. Name a player in his price range that plays a better full rink game.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

You are wrong. Name a player in his price range that plays a better full rink game.

I don't know who is or isn't in his price range.

I just know there's 2nd line centers around the NHL putting up better numbers. If that means we have to pay those guys more money, then so be it.

Sometimes you have to pay up to get something good in return. There's obviously a reason why Flip isn't getting paid more, namely that he doesn't deserve it.

You can compare him salary wise to some 3rd line scrubs around the league who make as much as he does, however, those guys don't play as big a role as he's being asked to play here.

Edited December 25, 2010 by GMRwings1983

[ltgator333 3]

Wow what a thread resurrection!

Seems to me there's something physically wrong with Flip? Could be wrong but he hasn't seemed to skate the same for a few weeks.

[Shaman 713]

I really expect him to be a 20-25 goals 30-35 assist guy...

[Guest Crymson]

You are wrong. Name a player in his price range that plays a better full rink game.

If GMR were the general manager of the team, then the organization would be attempting knee-jerk trades at least once a month. He has absolutely no conception of such intangibles as stability, loyalty, and whatever we don't see that goes on behind the scenes; rather, he only sees something along the lines of, "Player A bad. Player B from other team slightly better. Trade player A immediately."

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

If GMR were the general manager of the team, then the organization would be attempting knee-jerk trades at least once a month. He has absolutely no conception of such intangibles as stability, loyalty, and whatever we don't see that goes on behind the scenes; rather, he only sees something along the lines of, "Player A bad. Player B from other team slightly better. Trade player A immediately."

I love Hudler.

As does my boy Crymson.

Edited December 26, 2010 by GMRwings1983

[eva unit zero 271]

You are wrong. Name a player in his price range that plays a better full rink game.

Well, how would you define price range?

I can mention Dave Bolland, Dan Cleary, Zach Parise, Jamie Langenbrunner as a few.

[Guest Stolberg]

parise is making 1.5 million more than filppula right now

langenbrunner and full rink game together... not this year

[eva unit zero 271]

parise is making 1.5 million more than filppula right now

langenbrunner and full rink game together... not this year

Parise has a cap hit of $3.125m.

I would say that's pretty close to Filppula's $3m cap hit.