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Should Valtteri Filppula be traded?


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#421 eva unit zero

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 01:41 AM

So you would trade one weakness (goaltending) for another (2nd line center)?


Detroit has eight forwards among the top 180 forwards in scoring who are natural centers:

Beyond that, there are two more who are right on the cusp.

Of those ten forwards, six are natural centers. Only one is not considered a very good defensive forward.

And that doesn't even factor in Modano, whose production rate isn't quite at that level but was improving.

I know you love your Flip, but the Wings would hardly have a weakness at center on the second line if Filppula were traded for a goaltender. If anything, the Wings are super-deep at center. The Wings have played 25 skaters this season, 12 of which played through amateur hockey and began pro careers as centers. This is compared to seven defensemen and six wingers.

There's the obvious choice to split Dats and Z. But let's say they stay together. So who centers the second line? Franzen? Hudler? Helm? Maybe it doesn't provide the general all-around player Flip is, but all of them are valid choices. If Flip were dealt, with no other roster players, for a goaltender to take the reins from Howard, I would like one of these:

Z/Dats/Homer
Franzen/Hudler/Bertuzzi
Cleary/Helm/Eaves
Draper/Abdelkader/Miller

Franzen/Z/Cleary
Holmstrom/Datsyuk/Hudler
Eaves/Helm/Bertuzzi
Draper/Abdelkader/Miller

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#422 Nevermind

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 02:31 AM

There's the obvious choice to split Dats and Z. But let's say they stay together. So who centers the second line? Franzen? Hudler? Helm? Maybe it doesn't provide the general all-around player Flip is, but all of them are valid choices. If Flip were dealt, with no other roster players, for a goaltender to take the reins from Howard, I would like one of these:

Z/Dats/Homer
Franzen/Hudler/Bertuzzi
Cleary/Helm/Eaves
Draper/Abdelkader/Miller

Franzen/Z/Cleary
Holmstrom/Datsyuk/Hudler
Eaves/Helm/Bertuzzi
Draper/Abdelkader/Miller


Hudler is not a center in the NHL. It doesn't matter if he played center in Europe for his junior team or whatever. He lacks the speed, defensive conscious and more than likely the faceoff ability to ever play center in the show. And since Franzen started scoring goals, he's far better at wing.

Losing Filppula for a goalie forces us to keep Pavel and Z on separate lines. Though Fil's offensive consistency is frustrating, he's extremely solid defensively and has a lot of speed through the middle. We simply don't have another player who can adequately pivot the second line. In a cap world, Filppula's a very good second line center. Hopefully he hasn't reach his offensive ceiling quite yet.
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#423 eva unit zero

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 02:55 AM

Hudler is not a center in the NHL. It doesn't matter if he played center in Europe for his junior team or whatever. He lacks the speed, defensive conscious and more than likely the faceoff ability to ever play center in the show. And since Franzen started scoring goals, he's far better at wing.

Losing Filppula for a goalie forces us to keep Pavel and Z on separate lines. Though Fil's offensive consistency is frustrating, he's extremely solid defensively and has a lot of speed through the middle. We simply don't have another player who can adequately pivot the second line. In a cap world, Filppula's a very good second line center. Hopefully he hasn't reach his offensive ceiling quite yet.


Hudler has improved considerably at the dot since his rookie year and is probably average to above average for a center on faceoffs, although his stat line says he's DOMINANT!!!!!!! He's not a lockdown center defensively but when compared to the league and not to the Wings, he's not a liability. He's a skilled playmaker with a very good shot. Yet you're telling me that putting him in a playmaker-first role with Bertuzzi and Franzen (two big, defensively responsible wingers capable of scoring goals) Maybe Hudler centering Holmstrom and Miller wouldn't be a great choice, but I think Huds between Franzen and Bert would make for as good a second line as any in the league. The opposition wouldn't be able to focus on any one player because Bert and Hudler are both dual threats as playmakers and goal-scorers, and Franzen is arguably the team's top sniper. Teams like Los Angeles, San Jose, or Tampa Bay have that one key player who drives the second line and can be taken out. would be a bad idea.
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#424 Wingzman91

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 05:02 AM

The question is and still should be, why trade flip?
because he has value vs hudler?
Those are poor reasons.
Everyone is looking to make the trade that makes immediate impact.
Because saying that you would solidify the forwards and maybe make a minor d move or get a backup goalie doesnt sound flashy enough to post.
I like the team, and this year is a great year for the standard, "Getting our players back from ir is our deadline move".
No center we get would have nearly the same chemistry as flip does with this team.

So, no, he shouldn't be traded.




#425 Broken 16

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 08:31 AM

Hudler has improved considerably at the dot since his rookie year and is probably average to above average for a center on faceoffs, although his stat line says he's DOMINANT!!!!!!! He's not a lockdown center defensively but when compared to the league and not to the Wings, he's not a liability. He's a skilled playmaker with a very good shot. Yet you're telling me that putting him in a playmaker-first role with Bertuzzi and Franzen (two big, defensively responsible wingers capable of scoring goals) Maybe Hudler centering Holmstrom and Miller wouldn't be a great choice, but I think Huds between Franzen and Bert would make for as good a second line as any in the league. The opposition wouldn't be able to focus on any one player because Bert and Hudler are both dual threats as playmakers and goal-scorers, and Franzen is arguably the team's top sniper. Teams like Los Angeles, San Jose, or Tampa Bay have that one key player who drives the second line and can be taken out. would be a bad idea.




Are you really trying to sell Hudler as second line center? Really?

Holy crap. Franzen/Hudler/Bert? You're mad. First off, Bert has improved his defensive game, but he's still a retro-fit. No offense Bert. Franzen is NOT a 'defense first' forward. Yes, he's defensively capable when he wants to be, but not enough to carry a line. That leaves Hudler with the most defensive responsibility on the second line and center to boot. God help us.

Unless you figure that they are gonna score so many goals that it won't matter, in which case I would like to point out that you've put arguably the three most streaky Wings on the same line. Lol.

Edited by Broken 16, 07 February 2011 - 08:33 AM.


#426 SouthernWingsFan

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 08:40 AM

Are you really trying to sell Hudler as second line center? Really?

Holy crap. Franzen/Hudler/Bert? You're mad. First off, Bert has improved his defensive game, but he's still a retro-fit. No offense Bert. Franzen is NOT a 'defense first' forward. Yes, he's defensively capable when he wants to be, but not enough to carry a line. That leaves Hudler with the most defensive responsibility on the second line and center to boot. God help us.

Unless you figure that they are gonna score so many goals that it won't matter, in which case I would like to point out that you've put arguably the three most streaky Wings on the same line. Lol.

It's eva unit zero and Jiri Hudler. Don't get him revved up anymore than he already is...

Edited by SouthernWingsFan, 07 February 2011 - 08:40 AM.


#427 Broken 16

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 08:58 AM

It's eva unit zero and Jiri Hudler. Don't get him revved up anymore than he already is...



I try to avoid stirring him up too much most times... but c'mon...

#428 titanium2

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 09:10 AM

I try to avoid stirring him up too much most times... but c'mon...


Did you know that Zetterberg is a power forward?

#429 Finnish Wing

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 09:20 AM

Did you know that Zetterberg is a power forward?

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#430 Nevermind

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 11:17 AM

Did you know that Zetterberg is a power forward?


Did you know that Datsyuk is an enforcer?

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#431 F.Michael

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 11:40 AM

Hudler is not a center in the NHL. It doesn't matter if he played center in Europe for his junior team or whatever. He lacks the speed, defensive conscious and more than likely the faceoff ability to ever play center in the show. And since Franzen started scoring goals, he's far better at wing.

Losing Filppula for a goalie forces us to keep Pavel and Z on separate lines. Though Fil's offensive consistency is frustrating, he's extremely solid defensively and has a lot of speed through the middle. We simply don't have another player who can adequately pivot the second line. In a cap world, Filppula's a very good second line center. Hopefully he hasn't reach his offensive ceiling quite yet.

Agreed - however I believe Filppula has peaked offensively...That said I appreciate his solid/consistent play throughout the playoffs.

It's eva unit zero and Jiri Hudler. Don't get him revved up anymore than he already is...

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#432 Z and D for the C

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 11:41 AM

Detroit has eight forwards among the top 180 forwards in scoring who are natural centers:

Beyond that, there are two more who are right on the cusp.

Of those ten forwards, six are natural centers. Only one is not considered a very good defensive forward.

And that doesn't even factor in Modano, whose production rate isn't quite at that level but was improving.

I know you love your Flip, but the Wings would hardly have a weakness at center on the second line if Filppula were traded for a goaltender. If anything, the Wings are super-deep at center. The Wings have played 25 skaters this season, 12 of which played through amateur hockey and began pro careers as centers. This is compared to seven defensemen and six wingers.

There's the obvious choice to split Dats and Z. But let's say they stay together. So who centers the second line? Franzen? Hudler? Helm? Maybe it doesn't provide the general all-around player Flip is, but all of them are valid choices. If Flip were dealt, with no other roster players, for a goaltender to take the reins from Howard, I would like one of these:

Z/Dats/Homer
Franzen/Hudler/Bertuzzi
Cleary/Helm/Eaves
Draper/Abdelkader/Miller

Franzen/Z/Cleary
Holmstrom/Datsyuk/Hudler
Eaves/Helm/Bertuzzi
Draper/Abdelkader/Miller


Eva, Hudler will NEVER EVER EVER EVER play center on this wings team. Get that through your skull. It will NEVER happen. Give it up. Holmstrom would play center before Hudler. Franzen might get moved to center when we're injured (like when Flip was out), but that's only temporary.

I know we are deep at center, but that's mostly in the bottom 6. We have 3 forwards who are good enough to play top 6 center. 2 of those forwards should be together on the top line.

Just cause you look like the gimp don't mean you play like the gimp!


#433 Konnan511

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 01:52 PM


Z/Dats/Homer
Franzen/Hudler/Bertuzzi
Cleary/Helm/Eaves
Draper/Abdelkader/Miller


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#434 eva unit zero

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Posted 08 February 2011 - 02:43 AM

Eva, Hudler will NEVER EVER EVER EVER play center on this wings team. Get that through your skull. It will NEVER happen. Give it up. Holmstrom would play center before Hudler. Franzen might get moved to center when we're injured (like when Flip was out), but that's only temporary.

I know we are deep at center, but that's mostly in the bottom 6. We have 3 forwards who are good enough to play top 6 center. 2 of those forwards should be together on the top line.


Hudler plays center before Filppula scores 60 points...

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#435 Crymson

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Posted 08 February 2011 - 02:49 AM


Hudler plays center before Filppula scores 60 points...


Well, right now Hudler has 20 points.

#436 Nev

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Posted 08 February 2011 - 03:51 AM

Hudler is not a center in the NHL. It doesn't matter if he played center in Europe for his junior team or whatever. He lacks the speed, defensive conscious and more than likely the faceoff ability to ever play center in the show. And since Franzen started scoring goals, he's far better at wing.

Losing Filppula for a goalie forces us to keep Pavel and Z on separate lines. Though Fil's offensive consistency is frustrating, he's extremely solid defensively and has a lot of speed through the middle. We simply don't have another player who can adequately pivot the second line. In a cap world, Filppula's a very good second line center. Hopefully he hasn't reach his offensive ceiling quite yet.


This. This, this, this, this this. A thousand milllion zillion times this.

And as for Hudler playing center......as I've pointed out before the things Babcock looks for in his centers are skating, backchecking and "compete level", which just happen to be the threee weakest parts of of Hudlers game.
"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#437 titanium2

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Posted 08 February 2011 - 07:42 AM

And as for Hudler playing center......as I've pointed out before the things Babcock looks for in his centers are skating, backchecking and "compete level", which just happen to be the threee weakest parts of of Hudlers game.


Currently the main centers for the Red Wings are:

Datsyuk
Zetterberg
Filppula
Modano
Helm
Abdelkader

And we've seen these guys play stopgap center in the past:

Franzen
Cleary
Miller

So... In reality, with the way that trends are right now with Babs and the coaches, if Hudler were to play center then that would mean the Wings would have an amount of injuries we can't even possibly imagine because it's way too painful. Therefore, I don't think that's something we want to see.

...

In regards to the bolded part... Are you trying to say that being a center on the Red Wings involves playing solid defense too? Noo... You're crazy. Hudler as a center is a good idea because he's an excellent playmaker with good hockey sense in the offensive zone. On offense, it really is a decent idea. But I mean, skating ability to not only backcheck but also have the ability to adjust and rotate position wise along with defensive awareness of the opposing players around you as well as the ability to make smart defensive decisions is NOT really all that important... What the hell are you smoking over there? Let's just focus way more on offense. It's okay if a center is below average defensively on the Red Wings. It's not like they believe in having solid two way centers on scoring lines... Right? Come on...

But hey... Did you guys know that Gretzky played center? And he was small and slow just like Hudler? If Gretzky can do it then Hudler can, for sure. You guys don't know what you're missing.

And did you guys know that Hudler has played center in his career, especially when he was with the Grand Rapids Griffins? What sucks is that some crazy lunatics out there argue that the NHL is different than the AHL. I mean, what the hell are they thinking? So the NHL is a more difficult league than the AHL??? Says who??? Jeez... Crazy people, you know? The AHL and the NHL are the same, end of story.

In conclusion, Hudler should be a center. And trust me... We won't be ripping on him here endlessly on LGW for either having to play too defensively because he needs to overcompensate for being "too slow" or having to sacrifice a lot of defense in order to have points to justify his salary. It just won't happen.

I'm right and you all know it and I'm not a stubborn moron at all.

#438 Z and D for the C

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Posted 08 February 2011 - 08:34 AM


Hudler plays center before Filppula scores 60 points...


Feeling a little more confident to say that now that Filppula might have a relatively serious leg injury?

Just cause you look like the gimp don't mean you play like the gimp!


#439 Jesusberg

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Posted 08 February 2011 - 08:53 AM

I'm right and you all know it and I'm not a stubborn moron at all.


You're not a stubborn moron, but sometimes I think you might eat paint chips. I guess I eat paint chips too, because I often agree with you. However, delving through your thinly veiled sarcasm, with Flip out (worried about Babs' comment about "we've lost Flip") I wouldn't be completely opposed to seeing Rex play center. Even with his defensive shortcomings, who knows... maybe it'd push him a little. I know he looked good with Datsyuk last night, but who doesn't?

In the offseason I suggested we sign Boogaard (not for his NYR salary, mind you) and just tie him to the back of Datsyuk. With Pasha's bowed legs, he could support Boogaard easily and whenever anyone got near Dats, Boogaard could just go "RAAA!" and scare the crap out of them.

Call me crazy, but I think that would be just as effective. So who's the scariest guy in our system?

PS: Oh and uh... don't trade Filppula. He's injured

#440 Finnish Wing

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Posted 08 February 2011 - 08:58 AM

Feeling a little more confident to say that now that Filppula might have a relatively serious leg injury?

Getting injured is a weakness.
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