135 replies to this topic

[ShanahanMan]

My friend, the problem is, people don't realize there are many pieces involved in a championship team. The Wings success=Ken Holland to many people. The reality is, he's a mediocre GM who has benefitted from an amazing scouting department.

Does that mean he's bad? Nah. But how many times has he actually been creative in getting things done? Hossa? Sure, that was nice, but he can't (typically) pull off much more than a scrub or prospect for 3rd liner/7th defenseman. He's too afraid.

I give him credit for perhaps having an out of body experience in 2008 with the Stuart addition. You know what was strange about that? The Wings had a need (defense) and he went out and got what we needed. How often do the Wings need a defensman and we end up with Cory Cross, or Todd Gill (part 2), or Jiri Slegr etc? How often to we address the need for a forward by adding Kyle Calder?

He's just not that into this...lol

Agreed. And whats even more funny about the Hossa signing was that Holland didn't even make a big push for him. In fact, Holland even admitted that he believed there was absolutely no chance of landing him, so didn't even try. He was actually at a gas station when he got a call from Hossa's agent saying Hossa wanted to play for the Wings. Caught by surprise, Holland then said he can be the 2nd highest paid player behind Lids and Hossa accepted. Wasn't really that amazing of a pull off.

[hokike]

My friend, the problem is, people don't realize there are many pieces involved in a championship team. The Wings success=Ken Holland to many people. The reality is, he's a mediocre GM who has benefitted from an amazing scouting department.

Does that mean he's bad? Nah. But how many times has he actually been creative in getting things done? Hossa? Sure, that was nice, but he can't (typically) pull off much more than a scrub or prospect for 3rd liner/7th defenseman. He's too afraid.

I give him credit for perhaps having an out of body experience in 2008 with the Stuart addition. You know what was strange about that? The Wings had a need (defense) and he went out and got what we needed. How often do the Wings need a defensman and we end up with Cory Cross, or Todd Gill (part 2), or Jiri Slegr etc? How often to we address the need for a forward by adding Kyle Calder?

He's just not that into this...lol

1. trade is not "throw away scrubs", somebody must want them...dont treat other GMs like fools, fans
2. Red Wings is not the center of the universe, for good players there is tough competition.
3. when something did not happen it does not mean that GM did not try.


It irritates me that somebody must remind here very basic stuff.


Also, keep that in mind that next season deals depend on decision by Lidström. Practically Holland can't make any moves before Lidström has made up his mind.

Edited by hokike, 03 March 2010 - 10:18 AM.

[RedWingAbner]

salary cap, salary cap, salary cap....

salary cap, salary cap....got it?

in case you did not:

1. trade is not "throw away scrubs", somebody must want them...dont treat other GMs like fools, fans
2. Red Wings is not the center of the universe, for good players there is tough competition .
3. when something did not happen it does not mean that GM did not try.

Oh, ok then. Salary cap means that teams can't improve.

1. Ken Holland put this team up against the cap.
2. There are players on this team that can be/should be moved.
3. Do or do not, there is no try.

[king_malice]

Ken Holland just did a interview on TSN and said he has gotten some calls but doesn't expect to make any moves today. Unless its a salary in salary out deal because "we only have a few hundred thousand dollars space" said maybe in the off-season the situation could be different. He also says he wants to hang on to picks and prospects and get the system "replenished" again.

[ben_usmc]

I dont get how teams like Chi and Pitt manage to make so many trades, yet we stay put

[ShanahanMan]

I dont get how teams like Chi and Pitt manage to make so many trades, yet we stay put

Another boring trade deadline for us.....whoopie. Whats that, three years in a row now? Anyway, night fellas.

[hokike]

[quote name='RedWingAbner' date='March 3, 2010 - 10:16AM' post='1908245']
Oh, ok then. Salary cap means that teams can't improve.

CODE

1.  Ken Holland put this team up against the cap.

gimme cheap top6 forwards, right?

CODE

2.  There are players on this team that can be/should be moved.

to where????? kill them?? Who wants your "overpaid-underperforming" players???

CODE

3.  Do or do not, there is no try.

do you know what is happening behind the scenes???


sigh.

[RedWingAbner]

CODE

1.  Ken Holland put this team up against the cap.

gimme cheap top6 forwards, right?

CODE

2.  There are players on this team that can be/should be moved.

to where????? kill them?? Who wants your "overpaid-underperforming" players???

CODE

3.  Do or do not, there is no try.

do you know what is happening behind the scenes???


sigh.

So, even though you don't know what is going on behind the scenes, I'm wrong for saying there's nothing? Sigh yourself. That logic doesn't work. I "almost" took chemistry in college, I don't get credit for thinking about it, and neither does our GM.

Regarding cheap forwards--um, maybe they wouldn't be necessary if we didn't throw $1.5 million at guys like Jason Williams? Maybe we could add a guy with a higher salary? Ahh.

Players that could be moved? I think we have some pieces that we could move, for sure. Lebda, Filppula, Williams, Meech, Ericsson (in the right move). Not saying "MOVE THEM NOW" but players that could be moved for moderate other pieces.

[Rice]

Another boring trade deadline for us.....whoopie. Whats that, three years in a row now? Anyway, night fellas.

Last three years... hmm... Conference Finals, Finals, and a Cup.

So boring!

[Crymson]

I would like to thank Ken Holland for signing Jason Williams to a $1.5 million deal.

That $1.5 million under the cap would be about $5 million annual salary today that we could take on.

But thanks for Jason Williams, Kenny. Hopefully Hakan Andersson can bail you out again with a European find.

Quick! Go back in time and tell Holland you're from the future and that he needs to not sign Williams, so that he'll have money with which to trade players at the deadline!

I mean, seriously... are you being on the level here?

Edited by Crymson, 03 March 2010 - 12:18 PM.

[ben_usmc]

CODE

1.  Ken Holland put this team up against the cap.

gimme cheap top6 forwards, right?

CODE

2.  There are players on this team that can be/should be moved.

to where????? kill them?? Who wants your "overpaid-underperforming" players???

CODE

3.  Do or do not, there is no try.

do you know what is happening behind the scenes???


sigh.

So, even though you don't know what is going on behind the scenes, I'm wrong for saying there's nothing? Sigh yourself. That logic doesn't work. I "almost" took chemistry in college, I don't get credit for thinking about it, and neither does our GM.

Regarding cheap forwards--um, maybe they wouldn't be necessary if we didn't throw $1.5 million at guys like Jason Williams? Maybe we could add a guy with a higher salary? Ahh.

Players that could be moved? I think we have some pieces that we could move, for sure. Lebda, Filppula, Williams, Meech, Ericsson (in the right move). Not saying "MOVE THEM NOW" but players that could be moved for moderate other pieces.

I'd rather keep Flip then Ericsson. Flip has shown plenty of signs of improvement. I understand Ericsson is a rookie, but aside from 1 playoff series and a fight with Perry, he has slowly regressed. I believe to many hope for another Fisher, but unless he plays like he has a pair of balls I would keep Flip at his price rather then Ericsson at his.

[Rice]

I would like to thank Ken Holland for signing Jason Williams to a $1.5 million deal.

That $1.5 million under the cap would be about $5 million annual salary today that we could take on.

But thanks for Jason Williams, Kenny. Hopefully Hakan Andersson can bail you out again with a European find.

Right, because who needs a player that can help all season when you can overpay for someone at the deadline!

Look, I'm no Jason Williams fan. In fact, I threw up in my mouth when I heard the Wings signed him. However, the Wings needed scoring badly. Williams is capable of putting up decent numbers. Holland wasn't going to not sign him based solely on the chance that he might be able to get someone better at the deadline eight months later.

[ShanahanMan]

Quick! Go back in time and tell Holland you're from the future and that he needs to not sign Williams, so that he'll have money with which to trade players at the deadline! Of course, the players you want moved are players that nobody wants, but whatever.

I want an Oompa-Loompa NOW, daddy!

Oh yea I know, it's totally not Holland's fault for signing Williams again. Cause its not like it wasn't obvious in 2006, WHEN WE TRADED AWAY WILLIAMS, that he's as useless as rubber lips on a woodpecker.

[Jesusberg]

I've been a big believer in Holland for a long time, and I agree that right now there's not much he can do because of the current cap situation. BUT that's just it. I think a big mistake was spending 1.5 million on Jason Williams. Has he been terrible? No, but he hasn't been that great. Guys like Afinogenov and Prospal went for less than him and have produced more.

Williams even said that no one else was calling him... so we got a guy who no one wanted, basically. Holland couldn't push for anything better?. Now I'll admit that maybe Afinogenov liked the Russian contingent in Atlanta, and maybe Prospal liked the idea of his fellow Czech player Gaborik.

It seems to me that Holland has learned to "play it safe" to the point of mediocrity. This is finally a time where there's no excuse for Detroit not to shake things up, and yet we're not because he's got too close of ties to certain players. The Red Wings organization is a family, but I think Ken Holland forgets that it's also a business.

[Crymson]

Oh yea I know, it's totally not Holland's fault for signing Williams again. Cause its not like it wasn't obvious in 2006, WHEN WE TRADED AWAY WILLIAMS, that he's as useless as rubber lips on a woodpecker.

Ya, and he has also continued to score ~40 points per year on mediocre teams, and he is useful in the shootout.

We can't always have exclusively awesome players. You are spoiled and you don't even know it.

[ben_usmc]

Right, because who needs a player that can help all season when you can overpay for someone at the deadline!

Look, I'm no Jason Williams fan. In fact, I threw up in my mouth when I heard the Wings signed him. However, the Wings needed scoring badly. Williams is capable of putting up decent numbers. Holland wasn't going to not sign him based solely on the chance that he might be able to get someone better at the deadline eight months later.

Williams has been very helpful in that dept.

[alienanxiety]

I was just about to suggest Filpulla and Meech for Walker and Corvo, but I see Walker is off to Washington now.

[ShanahanMan]

Ya, and he has also continued to score ~40 points per year on mediocre teams, and he is useful in the shootout.

We can't always have exclusively awesome players. You are spoiled and you don't even know it.

He didn't fit here, he NEVER fit here, he never WILL fit here. He's a damn pin cushion to the opposition. Doesn't being traded 4 times in 4 years tell you something? Theres a reason no one wants this guy.

You are blind if you haven't seen this. Holland saw it in 06, though I guess he forgot quickly.

[Rice]

Williams even said that no one else was calling him... so we got a guy who no one wanted, basically. Holland couldn't push for anything better?. Now I'll admit that maybe Afinogenov liked the Russian contingent in Atlanta, and maybe Prospal liked the idea of his fellow Czech player Gaborik.

Prospal would only play in the East. Everyone thought Afinogenov was done coming into this season... I don't blame Holland for not signing him. Who knows if he even wanted to play here.

[Rice]

He didn't fit here, he NEVER fit here, he never WILL fit here. He's a damn pin cushion to the opposition. Doesn't being traded 4 times in 4 years tell you something? Theres a reason no one wants this guy.

You are blind if you haven't seen this. Holland saw it in 06, though I guess he forgot quickly.

Williams sucks, I agree. But Holland needed offense. Williams can produce offense decently.