Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Don't expect much from the Wings during Trade Deadline


  • Please log in to reply
135 replies to this topic

#101 ShanahanMan

ShanahanMan

    DUUUUUUUUH

  • Silver Booster
  • 5,652 posts
  • Location:Michigan, then Los Angeles, now Tokyo, Japan

Posted 03 March 2010 - 09:59 AM

QUOTE (RedWingAbner @ March 3, 2010 - 06:51AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My friend, the problem is, people don't realize there are many pieces involved in a championship team. The Wings success=Ken Holland to many people. The reality is, he's a mediocre GM who has benefitted from an amazing scouting department.

Does that mean he's bad? Nah. But how many times has he actually been creative in getting things done? Hossa? Sure, that was nice, but he can't (typically) pull off much more than a scrub or prospect for 3rd liner/7th defenseman. He's too afraid.

I give him credit for perhaps having an out of body experience in 2008 with the Stuart addition. You know what was strange about that? The Wings had a need (defense) and he went out and got what we needed. How often do the Wings need a defensman and we end up with Cory Cross, or Todd Gill (part 2), or Jiri Slegr etc? How often to we address the need for a forward by adding Kyle Calder?

He's just not that into this...lol


Agreed. And whats even more funny about the Hossa signing was that Holland didn't even make a big push for him. In fact, Holland even admitted that he believed there was absolutely no chance of landing him, so didn't even try. He was actually at a gas station when he got a call from Hossa's agent saying Hossa wanted to play for the Wings. Caught by surprise, Holland then said he can be the 2nd highest paid player behind Lids and Hossa accepted. Wasn't really that amazing of a pull off.


I HATE JASON WILLIAMS

#102 hokike

hokike

    Rookie

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 195 posts

Posted 03 March 2010 - 10:04 AM

QUOTE (RedWingAbner @ March 3, 2010 - 09:51AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My friend, the problem is, people don't realize there are many pieces involved in a championship team. The Wings success=Ken Holland to many people. The reality is, he's a mediocre GM who has benefitted from an amazing scouting department.

Does that mean he's bad? Nah. But how many times has he actually been creative in getting things done? Hossa? Sure, that was nice, but he can't (typically) pull off much more than a scrub or prospect for 3rd liner/7th defenseman. He's too afraid.

I give him credit for perhaps having an out of body experience in 2008 with the Stuart addition. You know what was strange about that? The Wings had a need (defense) and he went out and got what we needed. How often do the Wings need a defensman and we end up with Cory Cross, or Todd Gill (part 2), or Jiri Slegr etc? How often to we address the need for a forward by adding Kyle Calder?

He's just not that into this...lol



1. trade is not "throw away scrubs", somebody must want them...dont treat other GMs like fools, fans
2. Red Wings is not the center of the universe, for good players there is tough competition.
3. when something did not happen it does not mean that GM did not try.


It irritates me that somebody must remind here very basic stuff.


Also, keep that in mind that next season deals depend on decision by Lidström. Practically Holland can't make any moves before Lidström has made up his mind.



Edited by hokike, 03 March 2010 - 10:18 AM.

Crosby’s frustration level seemed to reach a boiling point in the final seconds, leading to him cross-checking Zetterberg in the back in front of Detroit goaltender Jimmy Howard(notes).

“I knew it was him without turning around,” Zetterberg said.

#103 RedWingAbner

RedWingAbner

    My Loony Bun Is Fine, Benny Lava

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,319 posts

Posted 03 March 2010 - 10:16 AM

QUOTE (hokike @ March 3, 2010 - 10:04AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
salary cap, salary cap, salary cap....

salary cap, salary cap....got it?

in case you did not:

1. trade is not "throw away scrubs", somebody must want them...dont treat other GMs like fools, fans
2. Red Wings is not the center of the universe, for good players there is tough competition .
3. when something did not happen it does not mean that GM did not try.


Oh, ok then. Salary cap means that teams can't improve.

1. Ken Holland put this team up against the cap.
2. There are players on this team that can be/should be moved.
3. Do or do not, there is no try.


#104 king_malice

king_malice

    Sniper

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 755 posts
  • Location:ontario

Posted 03 March 2010 - 11:37 AM

Ken Holland just did a interview on TSN and said he has gotten some calls but doesn't expect to make any moves today. Unless its a salary in salary out deal because "we only have a few hundred thousand dollars space" said maybe in the off-season the situation could be different. He also says he wants to hang on to picks and prospects and get the system "replenished" again.

#105 ben_usmc

ben_usmc

    Kenny Powers Fan

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,818 posts
  • Location:ypsilanti

Posted 03 March 2010 - 11:43 AM

I dont get how teams like Chi and Pitt manage to make so many trades, yet we stay put
There's no I in team, but there's a U in c***, so don't be little jealous c***s

#106 ShanahanMan

ShanahanMan

    DUUUUUUUUH

  • Silver Booster
  • 5,652 posts
  • Location:Michigan, then Los Angeles, now Tokyo, Japan

Posted 03 March 2010 - 11:50 AM

QUOTE (ben_usmc @ March 3, 2010 - 08:43AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I dont get how teams like Chi and Pitt manage to make so many trades, yet we stay put



Another boring trade deadline for us.....whoopie. Whats that, three years in a row now? Anyway, night fellas.



I HATE JASON WILLIAMS

#107 hokike

hokike

    Rookie

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 195 posts

Posted 03 March 2010 - 11:57 AM

[quote name='RedWingAbner' date='March 3, 2010 - 10:16AM' post='1908245']
Oh, ok then. Salary cap means that teams can't improve.

CODE
1.  Ken Holland put this team up against the cap.
gimme cheap top6 forwards, right?
CODE
2.  There are players on this team that can be/should be moved.
to where????? kill them?? Who wants your "overpaid-underperforming" players???
CODE
3.  Do or do not, there is no try.
do you know what is happening behind the scenes???


sigh.



Crosby’s frustration level seemed to reach a boiling point in the final seconds, leading to him cross-checking Zetterberg in the back in front of Detroit goaltender Jimmy Howard(notes).

“I knew it was him without turning around,” Zetterberg said.

#108 RedWingAbner

RedWingAbner

    My Loony Bun Is Fine, Benny Lava

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,319 posts

Posted 03 March 2010 - 12:06 PM



CODE
1.  Ken Holland put this team up against the cap.
gimme cheap top6 forwards, right?
CODE
2.  There are players on this team that can be/should be moved.
to where????? kill them?? Who wants your "overpaid-underperforming" players???
CODE
3.  Do or do not, there is no try.
do you know what is happening behind the scenes???


sigh.

So, even though you don't know what is going on behind the scenes, I'm wrong for saying there's nothing? Sigh yourself. That logic doesn't work. I "almost" took chemistry in college, I don't get credit for thinking about it, and neither does our GM.

Regarding cheap forwards--um, maybe they wouldn't be necessary if we didn't throw $1.5 million at guys like Jason Williams? Maybe we could add a guy with a higher salary? Ahh.

Players that could be moved? I think we have some pieces that we could move, for sure. Lebda, Filppula, Williams, Meech, Ericsson (in the right move). Not saying "MOVE THEM NOW" but players that could be moved for moderate other pieces.


#109 Rice

Rice

    Hank.

  • Gold Booster Mod
  • 5,957 posts
  • Location:Detroit, MI

Posted 03 March 2010 - 12:10 PM

QUOTE (ShanahanMan @ March 3, 2010 - 11:50AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Another boring trade deadline for us.....whoopie. Whats that, three years in a row now? Anyway, night fellas.

Last three years... hmm... Conference Finals, Finals, and a Cup.

So boring!
In a 2005 study published by the journal Nature, researchers at Durham University in England concluded that, across a range of sports, we found that wearing red is consistently associated with a higher probability of winning. The researchers also suggested that red's effect may subconsciously intimidate opponents in athletic contests, especially when the athletes are equal in skill and strength.

#110 Crymson

Crymson

    Ninjelephant

  • Gold Booster
  • 11,032 posts
  • Location:Denver, CO, USA

Posted 03 March 2010 - 12:12 PM

QUOTE (RedWingAbner @ March 3, 2010 - 07:21AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I would like to thank Ken Holland for signing Jason Williams to a $1.5 million deal.

That $1.5 million under the cap would be about $5 million annual salary today that we could take on.

But thanks for Jason Williams, Kenny. Hopefully Hakan Andersson can bail you out again with a European find.


Quick! Go back in time and tell Holland you're from the future and that he needs to not sign Williams, so that he'll have money with which to trade players at the deadline!

I mean, seriously... are you being on the level here?

Edited by Crymson, 03 March 2010 - 12:18 PM.


#111 ben_usmc

ben_usmc

    Kenny Powers Fan

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,818 posts
  • Location:ypsilanti

Posted 03 March 2010 - 12:13 PM

QUOTE (RedWingAbner @ March 3, 2010 - 12:06PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
CODE
1.  Ken Holland put this team up against the cap.
gimme cheap top6 forwards, right?
CODE
2.  There are players on this team that can be/should be moved.
to where????? kill them?? Who wants your "overpaid-underperforming" players???
CODE
3.  Do or do not, there is no try.
do you know what is happening behind the scenes???


sigh.

So, even though you don't know what is going on behind the scenes, I'm wrong for saying there's nothing? Sigh yourself. That logic doesn't work. I "almost" took chemistry in college, I don't get credit for thinking about it, and neither does our GM.

Regarding cheap forwards--um, maybe they wouldn't be necessary if we didn't throw $1.5 million at guys like Jason Williams? Maybe we could add a guy with a higher salary? Ahh.

Players that could be moved? I think we have some pieces that we could move, for sure. Lebda, Filppula, Williams, Meech, Ericsson (in the right move). Not saying "MOVE THEM NOW" but players that could be moved for moderate other pieces.

I'd rather keep Flip then Ericsson. Flip has shown plenty of signs of improvement. I understand Ericsson is a rookie, but aside from 1 playoff series and a fight with Perry, he has slowly regressed. I believe to many hope for another Fisher, but unless he plays like he has a pair of balls I would keep Flip at his price rather then Ericsson at his.
There's no I in team, but there's a U in c***, so don't be little jealous c***s

#112 Rice

Rice

    Hank.

  • Gold Booster Mod
  • 5,957 posts
  • Location:Detroit, MI

Posted 03 March 2010 - 12:16 PM

QUOTE (RedWingAbner @ March 3, 2010 - 09:21AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I would like to thank Ken Holland for signing Jason Williams to a $1.5 million deal.

That $1.5 million under the cap would be about $5 million annual salary today that we could take on.

But thanks for Jason Williams, Kenny. Hopefully Hakan Andersson can bail you out again with a European find.

Right, because who needs a player that can help all season when you can overpay for someone at the deadline!

Look, I'm no Jason Williams fan. In fact, I threw up in my mouth when I heard the Wings signed him. However, the Wings needed scoring badly. Williams is capable of putting up decent numbers. Holland wasn't going to not sign him based solely on the chance that he might be able to get someone better at the deadline eight months later.
In a 2005 study published by the journal Nature, researchers at Durham University in England concluded that, across a range of sports, we found that wearing red is consistently associated with a higher probability of winning. The researchers also suggested that red's effect may subconsciously intimidate opponents in athletic contests, especially when the athletes are equal in skill and strength.

#113 ShanahanMan

ShanahanMan

    DUUUUUUUUH

  • Silver Booster
  • 5,652 posts
  • Location:Michigan, then Los Angeles, now Tokyo, Japan

Posted 03 March 2010 - 12:18 PM

QUOTE (Crymson @ March 3, 2010 - 09:12AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Quick! Go back in time and tell Holland you're from the future and that he needs to not sign Williams, so that he'll have money with which to trade players at the deadline! Of course, the players you want moved are players that nobody wants, but whatever.

I want an Oompa-Loompa NOW, daddy!


Oh yea I know, it's totally not Holland's fault for signing Williams again. Cause its not like it wasn't obvious in 2006, WHEN WE TRADED AWAY WILLIAMS, that he's as useless as rubber lips on a woodpecker.


I HATE JASON WILLIAMS

#114 Jesusberg

Jesusberg

    1st Line All-Star

  • Gold Booster
  • 1,621 posts
  • Location:Windsor, Ontario

Posted 03 March 2010 - 12:21 PM

I've been a big believer in Holland for a long time, and I agree that right now there's not much he can do because of the current cap situation. BUT that's just it. I think a big mistake was spending 1.5 million on Jason Williams. Has he been terrible? No, but he hasn't been that great. Guys like Afinogenov and Prospal went for less than him and have produced more.

Williams even said that no one else was calling him... so we got a guy who no one wanted, basically. Holland couldn't push for anything better?. Now I'll admit that maybe Afinogenov liked the Russian contingent in Atlanta, and maybe Prospal liked the idea of his fellow Czech player Gaborik.

It seems to me that Holland has learned to "play it safe" to the point of mediocrity. This is finally a time where there's no excuse for Detroit not to shake things up, and yet we're not because he's got too close of ties to certain players. The Red Wings organization is a family, but I think Ken Holland forgets that it's also a business.

#115 Crymson

Crymson

    Ninjelephant

  • Gold Booster
  • 11,032 posts
  • Location:Denver, CO, USA

Posted 03 March 2010 - 12:21 PM

QUOTE (ShanahanMan @ March 3, 2010 - 10:18AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oh yea I know, it's totally not Holland's fault for signing Williams again. Cause its not like it wasn't obvious in 2006, WHEN WE TRADED AWAY WILLIAMS, that he's as useless as rubber lips on a woodpecker.


Ya, and he has also continued to score ~40 points per year on mediocre teams, and he is useful in the shootout.

We can't always have exclusively awesome players. You are spoiled and you don't even know it.

#116 ben_usmc

ben_usmc

    Kenny Powers Fan

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,818 posts
  • Location:ypsilanti

Posted 03 March 2010 - 12:24 PM

QUOTE (ARice89 @ March 3, 2010 - 12:16PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Right, because who needs a player that can help all season when you can overpay for someone at the deadline!

Look, I'm no Jason Williams fan. In fact, I threw up in my mouth when I heard the Wings signed him. However, the Wings needed scoring badly. Williams is capable of putting up decent numbers. Holland wasn't going to not sign him based solely on the chance that he might be able to get someone better at the deadline eight months later.


Williams has been very helpful in that dept. thumbdown.gif
There's no I in team, but there's a U in c***, so don't be little jealous c***s

#117 alienanxiety

alienanxiety

    Medical

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 306 posts
  • Location:Windsor ON Canada

Posted 03 March 2010 - 12:28 PM

I was just about to suggest Filpulla and Meech for Walker and Corvo, but I see Walker is off to Washington now. sad.gif

#118 ShanahanMan

ShanahanMan

    DUUUUUUUUH

  • Silver Booster
  • 5,652 posts
  • Location:Michigan, then Los Angeles, now Tokyo, Japan

Posted 03 March 2010 - 12:29 PM

QUOTE (Crymson @ March 3, 2010 - 09:21AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ya, and he has also continued to score ~40 points per year on mediocre teams, and he is useful in the shootout.

We can't always have exclusively awesome players. You are spoiled and you don't even know it.


He didn't fit here, he NEVER fit here, he never WILL fit here. He's a damn pin cushion to the opposition. Doesn't being traded 4 times in 4 years tell you something? Theres a reason no one wants this guy.

You are blind if you haven't seen this. Holland saw it in 06, though I guess he forgot quickly.


I HATE JASON WILLIAMS

#119 Rice

Rice

    Hank.

  • Gold Booster Mod
  • 5,957 posts
  • Location:Detroit, MI

Posted 03 March 2010 - 12:32 PM

QUOTE (Jesusberg @ March 3, 2010 - 12:21PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Williams even said that no one else was calling him... so we got a guy who no one wanted, basically. Holland couldn't push for anything better?. Now I'll admit that maybe Afinogenov liked the Russian contingent in Atlanta, and maybe Prospal liked the idea of his fellow Czech player Gaborik.

Prospal would only play in the East. Everyone thought Afinogenov was done coming into this season... I don't blame Holland for not signing him. Who knows if he even wanted to play here.
In a 2005 study published by the journal Nature, researchers at Durham University in England concluded that, across a range of sports, we found that wearing red is consistently associated with a higher probability of winning. The researchers also suggested that red's effect may subconsciously intimidate opponents in athletic contests, especially when the athletes are equal in skill and strength.

#120 Rice

Rice

    Hank.

  • Gold Booster Mod
  • 5,957 posts
  • Location:Detroit, MI

Posted 03 March 2010 - 12:33 PM

QUOTE (ShanahanMan @ March 3, 2010 - 12:29PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
He didn't fit here, he NEVER fit here, he never WILL fit here. He's a damn pin cushion to the opposition. Doesn't being traded 4 times in 4 years tell you something? Theres a reason no one wants this guy.

You are blind if you haven't seen this. Holland saw it in 06, though I guess he forgot quickly.

Williams sucks, I agree. But Holland needed offense. Williams can produce offense decently.
In a 2005 study published by the journal Nature, researchers at Durham University in England concluded that, across a range of sports, we found that wearing red is consistently associated with a higher probability of winning. The researchers also suggested that red's effect may subconsciously intimidate opponents in athletic contests, especially when the athletes are equal in skill and strength.





Similar Topics Collapse

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users