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ebl96

Why is there so much love for Filppula on this board?

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Well Sammy is gone, and Ozzie has not been playing, so some people are looking for a new scapegoat I suppose.

I like Flip (saw him close up at the Pepsi Center last week :wub: ) - not sure what the complainers want out of a guy that is a solid role player. He's not Z or Dats but he's not expected to be. And he's young. I thought he played great in the POs in 08 and was pretty solid last year as well. And right now he's got one more Cup than Hossa.... :P

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Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA

Flip is this years Hudler.

Like Hudler - Flip is never gonna be a star caliber player; he'll be solid defensively, get the usual 50 points, but will always get pushed around, and knocked on his ass on a reg basis...He should work out with Sosa, and McGuire :rolleyes:

I really would not be so quick to count out Hudler from becoming a star player in the NHL, should he return. Jiri Hudler was considered a hockey prodigy in his teens, and before his growth stunted was widely considered one of the best players in the world for his age, ala Dan Cleary. For a period of 3-4 years from 14-17ish he was tagged with potential Phenom staus, and was considered one of the most talented Euro prospects.

There our numerous quotes about him during his draft year from other team's scouts saying they expected him to be a top 10 pick, including Holland who claimed he had top 5 vision and hands in his draft year.

Hudler, at age 24 with >14 minutes of ice time a night and 2nd powerplay units posted 23 goals-34 assists for 57 Points

When Datsyuk was 24 he was centering a Hall of Famer still easily capable of 40+ goals and was placed on a powerplay unit that consisted of the aforementioned HOFer along with normally Robaitalle or Larionov.

His points with 16 minutes of Ice time a game and superior linemates... 11 goals- 24 Assists for 35 points.

I have stated from day one that should he set sufficent minutes, Hudler will EASILY be a perennial 30 goal scorer, with the potential to be much, much more.

In my mind...

Hudler's probable output for his prime years: 25-40 goals 70+ points

Hudler's MAXIMUM (and unlikely to be reached) Potential: 90+ points

Filppula's probable output for his prime years: Second line Defensive Center 10-20 goals, 45-65 points

Filppula's MAXIMUM (And Unlikely to be reached)Potential: Almost Selke worthy 65-75 point player

uhhhhhhhhhhhh how do you figure that?

This topic has already been discussed to a saturation point in my poll thread. Please review this thread, and the points the quoted poster was referencing, in which no one provided a sufficent counter point to.

Edited by EZBAKETHAGANGSTA

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Just what we need. Another thread about Filppula.

Filppula is a common subject on these boards because those that like him love him and those that don't care for him hate him. Each side will defend their love/hatred for Filppula to the death. This leads to debates that solve nothing and usually devolves into the usual suspects calling each other names.

Filppula is the new Ozzie.

That's a relief because I was worried I would have to keep arguing with everyone about Osgood for the next year. :P

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I have always said that Flip is a poor man's Zetterberg. He does a lot of what Hank can do on a much lesser level. I am not saying he will or can be the next Zetterberg because that is not the case. For you to say that Flip's defense is "suspect" is unfair. The best part of Flip's game, to me, is his defense. There is still a bit of room for him to improve offensively but he is almost fully developed. He is a second line centreman and he gets paid like one, the problem is that he does not always play in the second line centre slot because those spots are occupied by Zetterberg and Datsyuk. There is only so much ice time to go around. I agree, his stats can be better than they are and I feel they will be in the future. Every year until this year, his point production has increased. If he had have been healthy all year he would have built upon the 40 he put up last season. A lot of players get inflated on these boards because of pure homerism which is bound to happen.

Flip in a line: A very solid two way player that is CAPABLE of putting up 60 points.

Zettie reminded me that Flip is a lot like Datsyuk was when he was younger, very reluctant to shoot the puck. Babs has encouraged him to shoot more and he started to this season and it was working out well. Moving forward, hopefully him shooting more has a positive impact like it did on Datsyuk.

Filppula should be the second line centre.

I would like to see these two lines given a chance

Z - Dats - Homer

Cleary - Filppula - Franzen

Franzen can dominate on the second line, and that would help Filppula's game.

We were able to win the cup with a second line of

Sammy - Filppula - Franzen

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I really think you'll understand why we did in about 5 years.

As one of the board's resident Filppula haters (I've accepted the brand), this is the kind of thing that drives me up a F***ing wall. So, after 9 NHL seasons, THEN we will understand why we are paying a 3rd line center the money we are and sacrificing the ability to get other guys to do it?

I could be, and would love to be, SOOOOOOOOOO wrong on Filppula. If I am, mark my words, I will start an "I was wrong on judging Filppula post" and will bring a sign to the Joe (or wherever the Wings are then) that says "Highlights, I apologize."

Unfortunately, the Filppula love on this board is measured at a completely different standard than any player I've ever seen. Ericsson has a horrid season? He's done. Filppula tops out at 40 points as a career high in 3 NHL seasons? Superstar. He gets knocked off the puck and makes silly defensive errors? Not noticed-- he's awesome defensively.

I'd love to be the agent for Justin Abdelkader or Darren Helm right now. "Well, if we are paying players on potential, Kenny, you owe my boy Darren a 5 year deal at $3.5 million. He may win the Selke someday."

/rant. We've had our discussions on him in the past, and I don't want to rehash those. I think that it will save myself, ZD+C, Datsyukiandeke, and FinnishWing the time instead of going back and forth. The above rant is just my opinion in response to your original post.

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Blame Franzen. I though we decided between him and Hossa, not between Flip and Hossa. Franzen has 5 goals this season, and as RedWingsAbner says: "Projections don't matter s***!". So blame Franzen.

Yes, I remember saying that--never.

I do remember Johan Franzen scoring 27 and 34 goals in consecutive seasons and putting up 13 in the 08 Cup run.

It not much of a financial jump from Flip ($3M cap hit) to Franzen ($3.9M cap hit). The difference between the two is Franzen isn't being paid on potential.

To pull up an injured player's goal total and twist my words to make it seem like Franzen is comparable to Filppula is stupid. Can we not go down this road again? Can we just settle on you love Filppula, I apparently hate him because I criticize keeping him, and everyone can focus on the actual subject of the thread?

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Yes, I remember saying that--never.

I do remember Johan Franzen scoring 27 and 34 goals in consecutive seasons and putting up 13 in the 08 Cup run.

It not much of a financial jump from Flip ($3M cap hit) to Franzen ($3.9M cap hit). The difference between the two is Franzen isn't being paid on potential.

To pull up an injured player's goal total and twist my words to make it seem like Franzen is comparable to Filppula is stupid. Can we not go down this road again? Can we just settle on you love Filppula, I apparently hate him because I criticize keeping him, and everyone can focus on the actual subject of the thread?

No it isn't. As I already proved to you STATISTICALLY, Filppula isn't overpaid when comparing him to other players in the NHL who have about the same ppg this season. Not to mention he's great defensively. And YES, we do have to look at ppg, not points. Otherwise Franzen would overpaid too. Because putting up X amount of points in earlier seasons doesn't really help if you put nothing this season. If you say that we should look points and not ppg, then Franzen is overpaid this season. If we look ppg - as we should - then Franzen and Filppula are both good deals. Period.

Oh, just remembered you were the guy who said something and whenever a counter-argument was presented you claimed it didn't matter anything. So this is probably just a waste of time trying to speak some sense to your head.

Edited by Finnish Wing

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20 points in the last 24 games is pretty solid for a 3rd liner. At least thats what Mickey said pregame tonight.

I don't know what Mickey said, but I counted 18 points in the last 24 games.

Blame Franzen. I though we decided between him and Hossa, not between Flip and Hossa. Franzen has 5 goals this season, and as RedWingsAbner says: "Projections don't matter s***!". So blame Franzen.

Hehe, good point.

Remember in the pre-season Filppula-Leino-Williams line was playing really well. It seems like three years ago.

It's been a strange season. Almost everyone's production has been down. 25 points in 39 games means 52 points in 82 games. Not too bad for a third line center.

Edited by P. Marlowe

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Guest lilja4mvp

How could you not understand? What are you, new? While it would have been great to have Hossa locked up for the future it is not realistic in the cap era. The Wings are not the Lightning of a few years ago and would not lock so much money up in Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen and Hossa (That is without factoring in Lids making over 7 mil and Rafalski at 6 mil). Five years from now, Hossa's production will have dropped and Filppula will be in the prime of his career and he will not even be 31 which Hossa is right now. In a non cap world, yes, Hossa over Flip but in the cap world, no. Personally I could careless about Hossa, he was unecessary last year and the team is well capable of winning without him (2008). Any Wings fan can tell you that Holland is not down with making rash decisions that will hinder the team in the future.

when filppula is in his "prime", he still won't be a 30 goal scorer. Hossa at age 35 will likely still be scoring more goals than filppula. "Hindering the team for the future" is a stretch considering that with hossa signed, fillpula could have been moved for prospects/picks.

btw, the phrase is "i couldn't care less".

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No it isn't. As I already proved to you STATISTICALLY, Filppula isn't overpaid when comparing him to other players in the NHL who have about the same ppg this season. Not to mention he's great defensively. And YES, we do have to look at ppg, not points. Otherwise Franzen would overpaid too. Because putting up X amount of points in earlier seasons doesn't really help if you put nothing this season. If you say that we should look points and not ppg, then Franzen is overpaid this season. If we look ppg - as we should - then Franzen and Filppula are both good deals. Period.

Oh, just remembered you were the guy who said something and whenever a counter-argument was presented you claimed it didn't matter anything. So this is probably just a waste of time trying to speak some sense to your head.

Rehashing the old argument. Fun.

You conviently ignore my post about Franzen's accomplishments in the recent past.

We could sign 20 goalies to agreeable contracts but it wouldn't do the team much good. Neither does Filppula even when using statistical analysis to say he is worth $3M. It's not what the team needs.

Continuing to ignore you.

Hehe, good point.

He attributes a quote to me I never said. And Franzen, in ten games, is nipping on Filppula's heels in terms of goals scored.

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HE DOES IT AGAIN! Bravo. Maybe I'm bringing those old arguments up because you keep ignoring them, because you can't admit being wrong. You say Filppula is overpaid right now, but you don't have anything to prove that argument.

I prove that he's not overpaid by comparing him to other players' cap hit of similiar ppg. The point remains the same. If you look only at the points, then Franzen with 7 points earning 4mill is overpaid. If you look at the PPG - AS YOU SHOULD - you'll see that both of them are good deals.

You don't really have anything to back up your own arguments. Yet you keep ignoring what other people say. What a joke.

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HE DOES IT AGAIN! Bravo. Maybe I'm bringing those old arguments up because you keep ignoring them, because you can't admit being wrong. You say Filppula is overpaid right now, but you don't have anything to prove that argument.

I prove that he's not overpaid by comparing him to other players' cap hit of similiar ppg. The point remains the same. If you look only at the points, then Franzen with 7 points earning 4mill is overpaid. If you look at the PPG - AS YOU SHOULD - you'll see that both of them are good deals.

You don't really have anything to back up your own arguments. Yet you keep ignoring what other people say. What a joke.

My point, again, is that Franzen put up 27, then 34 goals and is being paid $3.95 million.

Filppula, at his highest, has put up 40 POINTS. In a season. No projection involved there.

Your statistics argument was a good one. I said as much. There are quite a few players who earn a similar salary yet are 40 point players. Still, you also have guys like Franzen who are 30 goal scorers who make $3.95 M. In that context, if we could drop Flip and get a guy who CAN/HAS put up more than 19 goals in a season, I'd say do it.

You call me out for ignoring arguments and you do it yourself. In the hopes of civility, I asked that we get past this and simply stated my opinion. Your obsession with me is in some ways flattering, though.

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Guest Shoreline

I have been a Wings fan for as long as I can remember. However I have lived in San Diego my whole life so I rarely get to discuss the team with anyone who follows them like I do. Now don't get me wrong, I feel like Flip is an alright player, but can not understand why is has practically been crowned as the next Hank or Dats. Even though he has only played 38 games this year, his statistics are still nothing special especially considering he is supposed to be a skill/finesse player. His defense is suspect, he needs to play stronger, and his stick handling while exceptional, hardly merits the praise his overall game receives from the loyal wings fans on the site. Please inform me on something I may be missing. I don't get to watch every game but I watch an many as one can being from San Diego.

I've always loved it when people, especially newly registered users, start off with "I've been a Wings fan since 1679!", as if that's supposed to give their argument some sort of instant oatmeal of credibility merely because they state this. :lol:

Flip is played pretty often on the PK and Power Play for a specific reason, and that's because he's a decent two way forward, and deserves the positive attention he gets, as well as the pay. This season has been rather unremarkable for him (missed a bunch of games due to injury) and the rest of the team (similar reasons, injuries), but it doesn't merit this sort of overreaction and player bashing. Few sensible people compare him directly with Hank and Dats, as Flip has never had "impressive" stats (if you really do watch games I dunno why you would be stat-centric), but besides his lack of touch in finishing plays in the offensive end (that's one thing he sorely needs to work on), he's not done much wrong, which is greater than average for the team this season.

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when filppula is in his "prime", he still won't be a 30 goal scorer. Hossa at age 35 will likely still be scoring more goals than filppula. "Hindering the team for the future" is a stretch considering that with hossa signed, fillpula could have been moved for prospects/picks.

btw, the phrase is "i couldn't care less".

Lets implant Hossa's current contract and remove Flip. Think about that. Hinders the future. It was mentioned above that the choice was between Franzen and Hossa and come playoff time, we will be grateful that Holland chose Franzen. Sorry that I am not an expert on expressions. You don't see me asking you why you don't start all of your sentences with capitals.

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when filppula is in his "prime", he still won't be a 30 goal scorer. Hossa at age 35 will likely still be scoring more goals than filppula. "Hindering the team for the future" is a stretch considering that with hossa signed, fillpula could have been moved for prospects/picks.

btw, the phrase is "i couldn't care less".

When Hossa Is 36 he will still have six years left on his contract. Think about that. You can only sign so many players to long term deals.

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Guest lilja4mvp

When Hossa Is 36 he will still have six years left on his contract. Think about that. You can only sign so many players to long term deals.

the chances of hossa playing out the entire contract are about the same chances that filppula ever scores 30 goals.

i.e. - none.

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the chances of hossa playing out the entire contract are about the same chances that filppula ever scores 30 goals.

i.e. - none.

Exactly. Also, since Hossa was under 35 when he signed that deal, if he retired before its conclusion, the cap hit disappears. It'll be interesting to see what happens with it.

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the chances of hossa playing out the entire contract are about the same chances that filppula ever scores 30 goals.

i.e. - none.

Good Point. Its impossible to debate how long Hossa plays. What we do know is that it is evident Hossa has no loyalty. I could definitely see him sticking it out just to keep getting paid. That is purely speculation on my part though. Who knows, itll be interesting to see how everything plays out.

I do agree with you that we need another top 6 forward however.

Edited by wingsownnhl43

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Good Point. Its impossible to debate how long Hossa plays. What we do know is that it is evident Hossa has no loyalty. I could definitely see him sticking it out just to keep getting paid. That is purely speculation on my part though. Who knows, itll be interesting to see how everything plays out.

I do agree with you that we need another top 6 forward however.

Why do we know, definitively, the Hossa has no loyalty?

Does Kovalchuk have no loyalty because he wouldn't re-up with Atlanta?

What does he owe Pittsburgh? Detroit?

It's hard to say he's disloyal when put into situations where the writing was on the wall. Pittsburgh knew he was a UFA. Detroit knew he was probably a one-and-done.

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Hossa was never necessary in the first place. They won without him and lost with him. Is it his fault? Absolutely not. But I think that the loss of Samuelsson and Huds trumps the loss of Hossa. I understand this retirement argument but say Hossa retires at the age of 38/39, Flip would be 31/32 then and producing more than he is now. His numbers will never match Hossa's but he can produce on this team. When they won the cup it was ZDH and Franzen-Flip-Hudler/Cleary/Sammy. Flip is a second line centre and when he is able to play in that slot he is productive proof of that is the Cup run in 08.

There are far more Flip haters than lovers here.

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Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA

Lets implant Hossa's current contract and remove Flip. Think about that. Hinders the future. It was mentioned above that the choice was between Franzen and Hossa and come playoff time, we will be grateful that Holland chose Franzen. Sorry that I am not an expert on expressions. You don't see me asking you why you don't start all of your sentences with capitals.

If Hossa signed with the Wing's the exact same contract he did with the Hawks (which would most probably be slightly higher than what he would have with us), the Wing's would only be hindered to sign depth next year should Lidstrom's contract be around 5+.

Due to current inflation treands, and the bad NA economy, the cap by the time Hossa is 38 will almost assurdly be over 70 million, making his relative cap hit far less. In addition for all the "outrage" it caused with the NHL, they have still yet to do ANYTHING to the Hawks, and unlikely that they will. What are they supposed to say... allright Guy's you found a loophole that was technically legal, but we expect our GM's to operate on highstanards so you'll be docked some cash and some draft picks? um... no.

Hossa would most probably not play more past 38ish, and seeing as how by the time he is that age, his salary would fit a Dan Cleary like player, only slight overpayment would occur.

Hossa was never necessary in the first place. They won without him and lost with him. Is it his fault? Absolutely not. But I think that the loss of Samuelsson and Huds trumps the loss of Hossa. I understand this retirement argument but say Hossa retires at the age of 38/39, Flip would be 31/32 then and producing more than he is now. His numbers will never match Hossa's but he can produce on this team. When they won the cup it was ZDH and Franzen-Flip-Hudler/Cleary/Sammy. Flip is a second line centre and when he is able to play in that slot he is productive proof of that is the Cup run in 08.

There are far more Flip haters than lovers here.

Yes, but the way I see it keeping Hossa helps us a lot more in the short term than he would hurt in the long run. Player's like Val, especailly the way he is being underutilized, are far more replacable. Just my opinion though.

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