Gnredwing 10 Report post Posted March 10, 2010 I am constantly reading bashing of Filpulla on the message board but no one ever says anything about Cleary. Is it just me or has Cleary been terrible this year? Filpulla seems to be able to make plays and skate with the puck unlike Cleary who seems like hes just lost. I think the Wings got f***ed with Clearys contract as he seems like hes only getting worse. Any opinions? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingsownnhl43 14 Report post Posted March 10, 2010 Is Cleary's contract that bad??? Jesus people. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Howard He Do It?! Report post Posted March 10, 2010 If you told me Cleary was playing tonight I would respond with "Really?" To be fair though, he wasn't the only ghost tonight. Is Cleary's contract that bad??? Jesus people. I don't like the NTC. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest mindfly Report post Posted March 10, 2010 I loved cleary's clutch-scoring last playoffs but he seem to have decided not to show up to play this (regular?) season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingsownnhl43 14 Report post Posted March 10, 2010 (edited) Honestly, the guy has played just as well this season as he has the past 3 seasons. You guys are just scapegoating now. Edited March 10, 2010 by wingsownnhl43 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoWings1905 2,694 Report post Posted March 10, 2010 Neither is anywhere near good enough right now. In fact, beyond the top line and Lidstrom I hardly noticed any other players tonight besides Eaves. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BuckeyeWingsfan80 209 Report post Posted March 10, 2010 Meech. /thread Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Z and D for the C 712 Report post Posted March 10, 2010 In fact, beyond the top line and Lidstrom I hardly noticed any other players tonight besides Eaves. I think this pretty much sums it up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingsownnhl43 14 Report post Posted March 10, 2010 Neither is anywhere near good enough right now. In fact, beyond the top line and Lidstrom I hardly noticed any other players tonight besides Eaves. So theyre not good enough because the team is struggling? Cleary and FIlppula are hardly the problem. If you want to blame Zetterberg or lack of depth, go ahead, but come on now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoWings1905 2,694 Report post Posted March 10, 2010 So theyre not good enough because the team is struggling? Cleary and FIlppula are hardly the problem. If you want to blame Zetterberg or lack of depth, go ahead, but come on now. I respectfully disagree. One has seven goals, the other has 13 and both make ~3 million on a team that clearly lacks goal scoring ability. That isn't good enough for either this season with no Hossa, Hudler, Samuelsson around for offense. Depth isn't the issue at all. Helm has ten goals, Eaves nine, Draper/Miller seven each. Those guys have played their roles beyond expectations. Our best players simply are not scoring enough, Filppula and Cleary included. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Z and D for the C 712 Report post Posted March 10, 2010 Cleary is a guy to whom you say "okay, he's not that skilled and he'll only get 40ish points, but he is a hard working who can score 20 goals". for him to be worth while, he needs to score 20 goals. Filppula on the other hand isn't like that. 20 goals for Filppula is great and he can do it, but it's not what you need from him. He's like a poor (very poor) man's Thornton. great set up guy, not a great goal scorer. If he is racking up the points (which he was on the second line) and being good defensively, you get what you need from him. He needs a goal scorer on his line. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingsownnhl43 14 Report post Posted March 10, 2010 (edited) I respectfully disagree. One has seven goals, the other has 13 and both make ~3 million on a team that clearly lacks goal scoring ability. That isn't good enough for either this season with no Hossa, Hudler, Samuelsson around for offense. Depth isn't the issue at all. Helm has ten goals, Eaves nine, Draper/Miller seven each. Those guys have played their roles beyond expectations. Our best players simply are not scoring enough, Filppula and Cleary included. Ok. Dan Cleary. He has tallied 40, 42, and 40 points in the past three seasons. Last season he had 40 points in 74 games. This season he has 29 points in 54 games. Ok, a little math. 40/74 =29/x Cross multiply and divide. If he plays 74 games this season, Cleary is on pace for 45 points. Higher than any of his past 3 seasons. Valterri Filppula has 25 points in 39 games, thats a 50 point pace which is 10 points higher than his career high. What exactly do you want from them? Edited March 10, 2010 by wingsownnhl43 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoWings1905 2,694 Report post Posted March 10, 2010 Ok. Dan Cleary. He has tallied 40, 42, and 40 points in the past three seasons. Last season he had 40 points in 74 games. This season he has 29 points in 54 games. Ok, a little math. 40/74 =29/x Cross multiply and divide. If he plays 74 games this season, Cleary is on pace for 45 points. Higher than any of his past 3 seasons. Valterri Filppula has 25 points in 39 games, thats a 50 point pace which is 10 points higher than his career high. What exactly do you want from them? I thought I made that rather obvious -- more goals. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingsownnhl43 14 Report post Posted March 10, 2010 I thought I made that rather obvious -- more goals. Well, doesnt this tell you enough? Statistically they are having career seasons? They are playing just as good as they ever have. You're just passing the blame because of where we are in the standings and you just arent exactly sure where to point the finger. Dan Cleary. He has tallied 40, 42, and 40 points in the past three seasons. Last season he had 40 points in 74 games. This season he has 29 points in 54 games. Ok, a little math. 40/74 =29/x Cross multiply and divide. If he plays 74 games this season, Cleary is on pace for 45 points. Higher than any of his past 3 seasons. Valterri Filppula has 25 points in 39 games, thats a 50 point pace which is 10 points higher than his career high. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DatsyukianDeke13 Report post Posted March 10, 2010 Filppula* is a more consistent player, better defensively, trusted in any situation, and in a full season will put up more points...However, Cleary will most likely score more goals. But, I would still give the edge to Fil. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brett 1,029 Report post Posted March 10, 2010 (edited) I loved cleary's clutch-scoring last playoffs but he seem to have decided not to show up to play this (regular?) season. honestly who has showed up this season? lids thats about it..dats and z should have atleast 15-20 more points. flip is fun to watch. i like his speed and he has some good moves. i think hes continuing to improve and can put up 60pts cleary has some good grit and wins alot of battles flip slighty over cleary in my book. both pretty equally defensively Edited March 10, 2010 by brett Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoWings1905 2,694 Report post Posted March 10, 2010 Well, doesnt this tell you enough? Statistically they are having career seasons? They are playing just as good as they ever have. You're just passing the blame because of where we are in the standings and you just arent exactly sure where to point the finger. Dan Cleary. He has tallied 40, 42, and 40 points in the past three seasons. Last season he had 40 points in 74 games. This season he has 29 points in 54 games. Ok, a little math. 40/74 =29/x Cross multiply and divide. If he plays 74 games this season, Cleary is on pace for 45 points. Higher than any of his past 3 seasons. Valterri Filppula has 25 points in 39 games, thats a 50 point pace which is 10 points higher than his career high. I know where to point the finger -- at the Red Wings biggest weakness, which clearly is scoring goals. You can include most of the forwards on the team if you like besides the ones I previously mentioned and Homer, but the thread is about Filppula and Cleary. I don't know what more I can say. I don't think either is scoring enough goals for the Red Wings. Cleary has one goal in the past ten games; Fil has five goals in 2010 playing big minutes at forward. There aren't the only ones to blame, but they most definitely can produce at a higher level. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ben_usmc 253 Report post Posted March 10, 2010 Is Cleary's contract that bad??? Jesus people. isn't it roughly the same as Flips except a NTC? If he is making the same amount as Flip then it is a very bad contract Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingsownnhl43 14 Report post Posted March 10, 2010 I know where to point the finger -- at the Red Wings biggest weakness, which clearly is scoring goals. You can include most of the forwards on the team if you like besides the ones I previously mentioned and Homer, but the thread is about Filppula and Cleary. I don't know what more I can say. I don't think either is scoring enough goals for the Red Wings. Cleary has one goal in the past ten games; Fil has five goals in 2010 playing big minutes at forward. There aren't the only ones to blame, but they most definitely can produce at a higher level. Well the way I look at it is that Cleary has 1 less goal than he had last season in 20 less games. And Filppula has 5 less goals in 41 less games. I think you wanting more goals out of them, is asking something that they are not. Trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. They are what they are, and I think they are filling their roles just fine. We would be fine in the goal scoring department if we had been healthy this season and had maybe one more 40-50 point scorer. We just dont have the personal that we had last season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DatsyukianDeke13 Report post Posted March 10, 2010 Part of the problem is simply there isn't any legit 40 plus goal guy on the team...We have a plethora of 10 to 15 goal guys, a few whom are capable of 20 to 30, and a few more guys (when healthy) are probably good for 30 to 35...That's about it. Flip is good for about 15, and Cleary roughly 20 to 25 when they're both healthy, and are on a roll. Ever hear of this guy named Johan Franzen? Also, Zetterberg scored 43 in the 07-08 season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
McAwesome 754 Report post Posted March 10, 2010 Right now, I'd have to give a slight edge to Filppula. I do not think either player is playing as well as they are capable of, but the same could be said for everyone on this team at some point this season. This whole team has just been underachieving as a whole, some due to injuries that kept them out of the lineup for stretches (Filppula, Kronwall, Franzen), some due to not as obvious injuries (you cannot tell me that Zetterberg has been 100% at any point this season), some due to overuse in the absence of regular players in the lineup (Stuart, Ericsson). If they had been healthy all season, we definitely would not be having this debate about Cleary vs. Filppula, they are both valuable role players on this team. Cleary's role is to get his nose dirty, kill penalties, and score garbage goals through hard work. Filppula's role is primarily to set up his linemates for scoring chances, be defensively responsible, and chip in goals when he gets the chance. All things being equal, Filppula should be the 2nd line/2nd PP center, and Cleary should be a 2nd/3rd line winger and a 1st unit PK forward. Neither has spent much time in the role they are best suited for and have earned through their effort, we simply haven't been healthy enough to play everyone in the role they should be in. In a more ideal setting, Cleary is good for around 20 goals/40 points a season, and Filppula is good for 15-20 goals and 30-40 assists. Of course, when the entire team is struggling offensively, these numbers seem to fall short of what we want out of them. For some reason, Filppula seems to be a polarizing figure on this board, and there are those who simply have nothing good to say about him and feel like it is their responsibility to rain on the parade of those who are fans of his, to quote Lee Corso "Not so fast my friend" whenever someone says anything positive about his play, to which his most ardent supporters reply with equal haste and usually result in hijacking whatever thread the conversation is occurring in. I don't get it, I don't understand how people who are fans of a team can show such blind hatred towards a member of the team they support, but that's just me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingsownnhl43 14 Report post Posted March 10, 2010 (edited) In a more ideal setting, Cleary is good for around 20 goals/40 points a season, and Filppula is good for 15-20 goals and 30-40 assists. Of course, when the entire team is struggling offensively, these numbers seem to fall short of what we want out of them. Did anybody read what I wrote earlier? Jesus guys, Cleary and Filppulas numbers arent falling short of normal!!!! This thread boggles my mind. Typical sky is falling, who can I blame thread. Here it is again... Dan Cleary. He has tallied 40, 42, and 40 points in the past three seasons. Last season he had 40 points in 74 games. This season he has 29 points in 54 games. Ok, a little math. 40/74 =29/x Cross multiply and divide. If he plays 74 games this season, Cleary is on pace for 45 points. Higher than any of his past 3 seasons. Valterri Filppula has 25 points in 39 games, thats a 50 point pace which is 10 points higher than his career high. Cleary has 1 less goal than he had last season in 20 less games. And Filppula has 5 less goals in 41 less games. Edited March 10, 2010 by wingsownnhl43 1 teebo reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites