Retired Jerseys?

[BamaWing 37]

I think we can all agree that Lidstrom will be the next in the rafters of the Joe. My question is who do you think will be after that? Datsyuk or Zetterberg perhaps? Maybe Osgood? Or even someone that's still very young or in Grand Rapids, you just think they'll go onto a great career that will end with their sweater in the rafters. Just interested in what you guys think

[dat's sick 1,002]

Darren Helm.

[wingsownnhl43 14]

To be honest - after Lidstrom there isn't anyone in a Red Wings sweater that I'd consider worthy of hanging it into the rafters.

This.

Datsyuk and Zetterberg obviously still have the potential to get their numbers retired, but they still have a lot left to accomplish.

[Konnan511 1,736]

Clearly Lidstrom. i think Datsyuk will have a very decent chance with the Stanley cups and major awards he has won. Zetterberg won't stay healthy enough to put up the number to get in and either will Kronwall. Lebda might be able to, though.

[zettie85 106]

Lidstrom and that's where it stops.

[egroen 384]

See my signature....

[egroen 384]

No doubt...If Vladdy wasn't injured he most likely would've won a few Norris Trophies.

Man I miss him

Good point - though I did mean Red Kelly and Larry Aurie

Konstantinov was definitely on track for that honor.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

Lidstrom and nobody else.

The rafters are for the legendary players. Nobody else other than Lidstrom (currently) is at that level.

[wingsownnhl43 14]

Lidstrom and nobody else.

The rafters are for the legendary players. Nobody else other than Lidstrom (currently) is at that level.

Agreed. After players retire they should have a certain window to have their number retired. Example. 5-10 years. After that their chances should be done just because historically a players reputation tends to get better as they get older or as time passes. This should prevent Larry Aurie or Red Kellys number from being retired. I just dont think its right for the fans or management from this generation to retire a jersey based on what theyve heard or read, because they certainly havent seen more than highlights of that player or maybe a few games.

Edited March 11, 2010 by wingsownnhl43

[stevkrause 1,247]

As others have said, the only current Wing that deserves it is Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Zetterberg and maybe to some extent, Franzen, have a chance, but they need to have an EPIC next decade for there to even be any discussion...

[egroen 384]

Agreed. After players retire they should have a certain window to have their number retired. Example. 5-10 years. After that their chances should be done just because historically a players reputation tends to get better as they get older or as time passes. This should prevent Larry Aurie or Red Kellys number from being retired. I just dont think its right for the fans or management from this generation to retire a jersey based on what theyve heard or read, because they certainly havent seen more than highlights of that player or maybe a few games.

How about un-retiring jerseys of players you've never seen?

As was the case with Larry Aurie.

And Red Kelly was better for Detroit than any player currently hanging up there, outside of Howe.

Edited March 11, 2010 by egroen

[wingsownnhl43 14]

How about un-retiring jerseys of players you've never seen?

As was the case with Larry Aurie.

And Red Kelly was better for Detroit than any player currently hanging up there, outside of Howe.

I really dont know why Mike Illitch doesnt hang #6 back up, but I support his decision. I respectfully disagree with you. The way I see it, if those numbers arent retired now, they shouldnt be.

[stevkrause 1,247]

How about un-retiring jerseys of players you've never seen?

As was the case with Larry Aurie.

And Red Kelly was better for Detroit than any player currently hanging up there, outside of Howe.

Agreed about Aurie, that one is odd to me... with Kelly though, he left for Toronto and spent just as much time there... that'd be like retiring Fedorov's number... I think it really should almost reserved for players that were almost Wings for life... I know terrible Ted left for Chicago, but that was short stint and he came back... and Sawchuck was a goalie... they're always quirky and not held to the same standard, haha

Edited March 11, 2010 by stevkrause

[wingsownnhl43 14]

Agreed about Aurie, that one is odd to me... with Kelly though, he left for Toronto and spent just as much time there... that'd be like retiring Fedorov's number... I think it really should almost reserved for players that were almost Wings for life... I know terrible Ted left for Chicago, but that was short stint and he came back... and Sawchuck was a goalie... they're always quirky and not held to the same standard, haha

+ 1 on Red Kelly. Having your jersey retired should pretty much be for lifers with some exceptions.

And great example of Fedorov. He was well on track to have his # retired. He was an important part of 3 Stanley Cup runs, phenomenal player. But hey, he left and lost out on that honor.

Edited March 11, 2010 by wingsownnhl43

[egroen 384]

Agreed about Laurie, that one is odd to me... with Kelly though, he left for Toronto and spent just as much time there... that'd be like retiring Fedorov's number... I think it really should almost reserved for players that were almost Wings for life... I know terrible Ted left for Chicago, but that was short stint and he came back... and Sawchuck was a goalie... they're always quirky and not held to the same standard, haha

Like Lindsay, Kelly ran afoul with Jack Adams -

Adams literally made Kelly play with a broken ankle, and when Red was questioned by a reporter about his poor play, his response was "I dunno, maybe it was the ankle". Off to Siberia (Rangers at the time) with him, which prompted Kelly to retire. It was not his choice to leave Detroit (unlike Fedorov).

Jack Adams was a brilliant coach, but he also prematurely broke up the Detroit Dynasty of the 50s (and was a complete and utter *******), IMO.

It does bother me that Kelly has his number hanging in Toronto, when he was twice the player for Detroit.

Edited March 11, 2010 by egroen

[mmamolo 287]

Lidstrom is obvious and his number will get retired instantly.

Both Datsyuk and Zetterberg do have a shot at getting their numbers retired but both do have a lot of work to do still. What each has working in their favours so far are:

Datsyuk: 2 Cup Rings, 3 First All Star, 1 Second All Star Team, 4 straight Bings, and 2 straight Selkes

Zetterberg: 1 Cup Ring, Red Wing Record 27 pts in one playoff year, 1 Second All Star Team, 1 Conn Smyth.

Also, if Zetterberg is named captain after Lidstrom retires that will go a long way in terms of getting his number raised.

I'm not arguing for or against either of them getting their numbers up there but I'm saying that if you look at their accolades they are both on they're ways to having the type of recognition that it takes to get a number retired. Plus, they have both bought in so heavily into the culture and family of the Detroit Red Wings and ultimately it is the Wings brass who decides so that will also help.

Also, no way Osgood. As much as he has done for me, I just don't see it.

Edited March 11, 2010 by mmamolo

[egroen 384]

And outside of Howe, Aurie and Yzerman, all of the numbers hanging up there were retired decades after they stopped playing for Detroit:

Abel's was retired in 1995

Delvecchio's in 1991

Lindsay's in 1991

Sawchuk's in 1994

[wingsownnhl43 14]

Like Lindsay, Kelly ran afoul with Jack Adams -

Adams literally made Kelly play with a broken ankle, and when Red was questioned by a reporter about his poor play, his response was "I dunno, maybe it was the ankle". Off to Siberia (Rangers at the time) with him, which prompted Kelly to retire. It was not his choice to leave Detroit (unlike Fedorov).

Jack Adams was a brilliant coach, but he also prematurely broke up the Detroit Dynasty of the 50s (and was a complete and utter *******), IMO.

It does bother me that Kelly has his number hanging in Toronto, when he was twice the player for Detroit.

I get where your coming from on Kelly, but if you notice, all Detroits retired players were primarily Red Wings and I think it should remain that way. I think we hold that honor to higher standards than other organizations.

[Electrophile 3,554]

In the forty besquillion threads we've had on this subject, someone always says this and it makes sense so I'll say it this time: If you have to debate it, the answer is no.

The only Red Wing currently playing that will have their number retired is Nick. Period. Maybe Pavs and Hank one day, but that depends on what they do for the rest of their career. Nick's achievements are already carved in stone.

[wingsownnhl43 14]

And outside of Howe, Aurie and Yzerman, all of the numbers hanging up there were retired decades after they stopped playing for Detroit:

Abel's was retired in 1995

Delvecchio's in 1991

Lindsay's in 1991

Sawchuk's in 1994

Good point and nice find. Ill stick with my 5-10 year window suggestion though. Retiring a jersey should be a sure thing. In my mind, if its debatable the number shouldnt go up.

[Guest Lidstromboli]

And outside of Howe, Aurie and Yzerman, all of the numbers hanging up there were retired decades after they stopped playing for Detroit:

Abel's was retired in 1995

Delvecchio's in 1991

Lindsay's in 1991

Sawchuk's in 1994

and there were only around 20 retired numbers total in the years prior to 1985

Edited March 11, 2010 by Lidstromboli

[egroen 384]

I get where your coming from on Kelly, but if you notice, all Detroits retired players were primarily Red Wings and I think it should remain that way. I think we hold that honor to higher standards than other organizations.

Just to list them:

Years with Detroit - Player - Years Outside of Detroit

25 Howe 7

24 Delvecchio 0

22 Yzerman 0

14 Lindsay 3

14 Sawchuk 7

13 Kelly 7

12 Abel 2

Especially given the context in which Kelly left Detroit, I fail to see that as an adequate reason to not honor and claim one of the greatest defenseman of all-time as one of our own. If Kelly had simply retired after being traded from the Red Wings, like he had originally planned on, obviously that would not be a reason.

I fail to see how having success after Detroit should be held against him.

Edited March 11, 2010 by egroen

[egroen 384]

and there were only around 20 retired numbers total in the years prior to 1985

There were also a lot less teams.

Though I count about 30 retired by the end of 1985.

[mjlegend 155]

There should be a minimum standard stated before consideration even begins:

- At least one Hart Trophy or at least five combined Norris/Vezina/Selke/Conn Smythe Trophy wins as a Red Wing

- Multiple first-team NHL player as Red Wing, or top ten in a major career scoring/goaltending statistical category while spending at least 75 per cent of prime career as Red Wing.

- Captaining multiple Red Wings teams to Stanley Cups

- overwhelming fan/community support for the player on and off the ice.

- namechecked in a Kid Rock album cut.

IMO at least four of these criterion must be met.

[McAwesome 754]

As to the OP, definitely Lidstrom has earned that honor, anyone else on the current roster has a long way to go before they deserve to have their number retired, but as others have also pointed out, Datsyuk and Zetterberg are off to a good start.

As for the debate about historic players who have not been retired, I have never fully understood why Mr. Ilitch took #6 down from the rafters, and while I can see why they initially decided not to retire #4 for Kelly (original 6 mindset, Toronto was a very heated rivalry at the time, etc), but with the passage of time, why would you not consider it?

Having your number retired is about as great of an honor a player can have, right up there with being inducted into the HHOF and having your name engraved on the Stanley Cup, it is a form of hockey immortality, and those players whose sweaters hang from the rafters now are all undoubtedly worthy of that honor, by virtue of not only their numbers and awards but also their service to the team, all of the players whose numbers are retired played most if not all of their career in Detroit, unlike some numbers retired for other clubs (#77 in Colorado comes to mind). The Detroit Red Wings hold themselves to a higher standard, and that is why they are the model franchise in all of North American pro sports.