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Kicking to score a goal


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#1 Echolalia

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Posted 11 March 2010 - 09:21 PM

I've never understood why goals are not allowed to be scored with a kicking motion. A player is allowed to kick the puck to a teammate as a pass, or to receive a pass if the puck ends up between the skates. Kicking the puck along is also a frequent occurrence along the boards when players are pinned together and their sticks aren't immediately available. But this allowance suddenly breaks down when we're talking about the puck going into the net. I always thought of intentional puck-kicking as one of the many facets of the game that complement a player's skill in close-range battles. If a player is tied up with a d-man at the top of the crease and scores by kicking, shouldn't he be rewarded with a goal if he has the ability to keep the defenseman occupied and beat the goalie simultaneously? Maybe there's some glaring problem with allowing players to score by kicking the puck in that I'm not seeing, but regardless I'd like your opinion.

#2 Dano33

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Posted 11 March 2010 - 09:31 PM

Allowing players to kick makes for more razor sharp blades swinging around the net. If i were a goalie I wouldn't want to have to deal with that.
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#3 Howard He Do It?!

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Posted 11 March 2010 - 09:33 PM

Allowing players to kick makes for more razor sharp blades swinging around the net. If i were a goalie I wouldn't want to have to deal with that.

Exactly. It is a question of safety. 2 or 3 guys wildly kicking away is very dangerous.

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#4 KrazyGangsta

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Posted 11 March 2010 - 10:07 PM

If we kicked the puck in then what would be the point of having sticks. NHL would equal to MLS :).

#5 dirtydangles

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Posted 11 March 2010 - 10:14 PM

Allowing players to kick makes for more razor sharp blades swinging around the net. If i were a goalie I wouldn't want to have to deal with that.


THIS.

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#6 Echolalia

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Posted 11 March 2010 - 10:14 PM

I honestly can't see the dangers of kicking as a means of banning it as a possible way to score. Like I said, it occurs everywhere else on the ice. Heck, even now it occurs in front of the net. The defensman is not inhibited at all from kicking the puck away from the forward if the puck is at their feet. The forward is also free to kick the puck, so long as it doesn't go into the net. This includes kicking it to a teammate who could be nearby, or to his own stick to pop the puck into the net. He could also kick it to the goalie/net in hopes that he gets a lucky bounce.

#7 Marty Barry

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Posted 11 March 2010 - 10:19 PM

I honestly can't see the dangers of kicking as a means of banning it as a possible way to score. Like I said, it occurs everywhere else on the ice. Heck, even now it occurs in front of the net. The defensman is not inhibited at all from kicking the puck away from the forward if the puck is at their feet. The forward is also free to kick the puck, so long as it doesn't go into the net. This includes kicking it to a teammate who could be nearby, or to his own stick to pop the puck into the net. He could also kick it to the goalie/net in hopes that he gets a lucky bounce.

The goalie is on his knees, butt, back, stomach while facing the puck while all this kicking would be going on. Not too hard to figure out the safety aspect of the rule.

#8 Shoreline

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Posted 11 March 2010 - 10:31 PM

I honestly can't see the dangers of kicking as a means of banning it as a possible way to score. Like I said, it occurs everywhere else on the ice. Heck, even now it occurs in front of the net. The defensman is not inhibited at all from kicking the puck away from the forward if the puck is at their feet. The forward is also free to kick the puck, so long as it doesn't go into the net. This includes kicking it to a teammate who could be nearby, or to his own stick to pop the puck into the net. He could also kick it to the goalie/net in hopes that he gets a lucky bounce.

You seriously cannot see why kicking with a sharp skate blade would be dangerous? How?!

When people are kicking the puck into the net, just about every single time it's within vicinity of the net. In all likelihood, there isn't just player feet around, there is a pretty decent chance there might be some other player right there knocked onto (or fallen onto) the ice during a scramble for the puck and someone kicking at the puck is highly dangerous, then the goalie as mentioned already numerous times. When people kick pass a puck to a teammate there is no threat at all, which is why it's legal, as it is never around the net where players are more likely to be in a vulnerable position. There is a very big "situational" context you're overlooking.

#9 Yzerfan1999

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Posted 11 March 2010 - 10:37 PM

I think safety is a huge part of it, but its also part of the integrity of the game. The goal is to propel the puck into the net using your hockey stick. Sure deflections and weird bounces off part of the body count (see Miller's goal tonight), but propelling the puck into the net with your foot defeats that purpose. Its the same reason why you can't throw the puck in the net. Its hockey, not soccer or baseball.
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#10 Johnny Diamonds

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Posted 11 March 2010 - 11:01 PM

Only Canadian playoff teams like the OILERS!!!! are allowed to kick goals in the net. Toronto then turns a blind eye to it.

#11 Doc Holliday

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Posted 11 March 2010 - 11:09 PM

I honestly can't see the dangers of kicking as a means of banning it as a possible way to score. Like I said, it occurs everywhere else on the ice. Heck, even now it occurs in front of the net. The defensman is not inhibited at all from kicking the puck away from the forward if the puck is at their feet. The forward is also free to kick the puck, so long as it doesn't go into the net. This includes kicking it to a teammate who could be nearby, or to his own stick to pop the puck into the net. He could also kick it to the goalie/net in hopes that he gets a lucky bounce.


Because the point is to score with the stick. End of story. Why do you think players aren't allowed to bat the puck in with their arms or legs?

Edited by Doc Holliday, 11 March 2010 - 11:10 PM.

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#12 Echolalia

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 12:47 AM

ok I don't think that I'm going to get anywhere with this. I admit that the safety of the goalie is a concern but I don't see how some small rule could be placed to protect him, such as no kicking within the crease or something. I just get pissed off when a goal is waived off because it was kicked in.

#13 cprice12

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 01:09 AM

ok I don't think that I'm going to get anywhere with this.

Probably because you aren't willing to listen to reason/logic?

I admit that the safety of the goalie is a concern but I don't see how some small rule could be placed to protect him, such as no kicking within the crease or something. I just get pissed off when a goal is waived off because it was kicked in.

Why do you say that you understand the safety concerns, but then you come back and say that you don't understand why a kicked in goal doesn't count?
I don't think you understand it at all.

You can't allow guys to be kicking away at loose pucks with razor sharp blades when a goalie is down on the ice trying to cover the puck. The only thing you are doing is increasing the chances of another Malarchuk incident if you allow kicked in goals. More guys would be kicked & stepped on with those sharp skates.

It's common sense and quite easy to understand.

#14 Heroes of Hockeytown

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 01:28 AM

I don't like the idea, it's fundamentally not hockey. And for as much as the NHL likes to change the rules to increase scoring, that would probably increase it by the most. It can be hard and awkward to maneuver a big, unwieldy stick around your own and other players' feet in a way that kicking would not; you can tie up a player's stick, you can't tie up his feet.
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#15 FunkedUp

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 01:59 AM

I like the idea, but it will never happen. People wouldn't be kicking their skates wildly. It doesn't make any sense. If you were trying to kick a puck in, then you have to turn your ankle sideways and slide it. Your foot would barely come off the ground. There's no way or reason people would be kicking like soccer players. Furthermore, players wouldn't be trying to kick the puck in. They would only do this if their stick was tied up. This slight kicking motion is no more dangerous to players than when they take strides.

#16 Doc Holliday

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 02:03 AM

I like the idea, but it will never happen. People wouldn't be kicking their skates wildly. It doesn't make any sense. If you were trying to kick a puck in, then you have to turn your ankle sideways and slide it. Your foot would barely come off the ground. There's no way or reason people would be kicking like soccer players. Furthermore, players wouldn't be trying to kick the puck in. They would only do this if their stick was tied up. This slight kicking motion is no more dangerous to players than when they take strides.


And like I said, the safety is secondary to the fact that KICKING THE PUCK IN THE NET IS NOT THE GOAL OF HOCKEY.

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#17 stormboy

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 07:49 AM

personally i think the scales tip slightly in the favor of safety, but i think game integrity is a piece of it as well. i guess it's hard for me to see how OP cannot understand what a safety risk allowing kicking in goals would cause. sure, the vast majority of the time, nothing would happen. but the last thing this sport needs is some goalie bleeding to death on the ice.

OP made the point that blades would be sideways and that players would not be kicking straight forward. this is true. from that he draws the assumption that blades would rarely come off the ice. i disagree. i also argue that blades on the ice can still be dangerous to a goalie who is laying on the ice trying to make the save / find the puck.

think about this, too. if a forward gets knocked down in a scrum, he's going to be laying on the ice. if everyone's batting away at the puck, he might as well kick at it, since he likely can't use his stick (if, say, he's laying feet-first towards the goal). there is no way that *that* is not a safety risk. again, not going to happen a TON, but even one goalie getting cut severely every few years is too much, and that's why the rule is there.

i understand being frustrated when a goal is called off in a situation where the "kicking motion" was marginal and no one was at risk. but it's sort of like the clearing-the-puck-over-the-glass rule: if you make it a rule, no one is going to do it on PURPOSE, so you're penalizing accidents. but, like in the delay-of-game situation, if it's NOT a rule, people will do it all the time, so you have to, in effect, punish the innocent (e.g. people who are not TRYING to delay the game or kick the puck) to prevent people form intentionally doing just that all the more.

lastly, OP seems frustrated that no one is on his side. if i were OP, i'd think about why that was. LGW is notoriously divided. and we all seem to agree that it's a good rule...except you.
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#18 55fan

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 09:04 AM

i understand being frustrated when a goal is called off in a situation where the "kicking motion" was marginal and no one was at risk. but it's sort of like the clearing-the-puck-over-the-glass rule: if you make it a rule, no one is going to do it on PURPOSE, so you're penalizing accidents. but, like in the delay-of-game situation, if it's NOT a rule, people will do it all the time, so you have to, in effect, punish the innocent (e.g. people who are not TRYING to delay the game or kick the puck) to prevent people form intentionally doing just that all the more.


I snipped out the rest in the interest of space, but I think this part bears attention.

If an accidental kick is counted, then all kicks have to be counted. It stinks, but there is no way an official can tell for sure if the player meant to kick it. If there was a way to do that, I'd have no problem with the "incidental kicking" goals standing. They would be no different than goals that bounce off a leg that happens to be moving as one is skating.

#19 Frozen-Man

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 09:27 AM

I honestly can't see the dangers of kicking as a means of banning it as a possible way to score. Like I said, it occurs everywhere else on the ice. Heck, even now it occurs in front of the net. The defensman is not inhibited at all from kicking the puck away from the forward if the puck is at their feet. The forward is also free to kick the puck, so long as it doesn't go into the net. This includes kicking it to a teammate who could be nearby, or to his own stick to pop the puck into the net. He could also kick it to the goalie/net in hopes that he gets a lucky bounce.


I think that the concern is that no where else on the ice is a player regularly down and in such a close proximity to the blades. Having his face and upper body so close to the skate makes it much more likely for there to be an injury. As for most of the other kicking that goes on I agree that it is kind of a contradiction (although what isn't in the NHL lately i.e. Cooke) all I can think of is that when you are kicking to put the puck in the net your blade will be swinging toward the net and thus usually toward the goalie as well. This would not usually be the case when kicking to keep it out or (to a lesser degree) when kicking to pass it to a teammate.

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#20 kook_10

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 11:28 AM

What would be the appropriate way to defend a player kicking the puck? The safety concern would also extend to stick on skate and skate on skate contact as well as slew footing. I could see how this would result in plenty of broken feet, nevermind any blade issues.

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