Red Wings GM Ken Holland hasn't given up on wandering Jiri Hudler

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

And if you did the same for the other players on the roster this year they would have the same point totals they had last year, barring games missed due to injury.

The Wings are scoring less this year, everyone's point totals are lower. That is what I meant by him probably not putting up as many points this year.

1) You miscomprehended my post... or maybe I just didn't make it clear, I meant to say that If last year if Hudler would have stayed scoring the same rate and had gotton the time Filppula had gotten Hudler would have a prorated Point total of 68.7, compared to Filppula's 40, and if he was given Z's icetime, he would have scored 78 points.

All this is subjective and assuming he would score at the same rate of toi, which he wouldn't but just saying he was more effective than them in terms of production

2)Filppula and Zetterberg are both scoring at better paces than they were last year.

[Z and D for the C 712]

If last year if Hudler would have stayed scoring the same rate and had gotton the time Filppula had gotten Hudler would have a prorated Point total of 68.7, compared to Filppula's 40, and if he was given Z's icetime, he would have scored 78 points.

Last year, if Hudler was given Filppula's even strength time on ice, he would have scored 36 even strength points, compared to Filppula's 36.

Given Zetterberg's ES TOI last year, Hudler would have scored 37 even strength points, compared to Zetterberg's 41.

Your stats are seriously skewed because you're not taking into account all the differences for even strength, short handed and power play.

Again, if Filppula (I'm not using Filppula here because I have a hard on for him, but because he's the closest comparison) was given Hudler's PP time, Filppula's point totals would have been very close to Hudler's actual total last year.

Edited March 17, 2010 by Z and D for the C

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Just sayin' he won't be a PPG player in the NHL is all.

Im not against it...I just would not expect anything more then what he was before he went to the KHL.

A man can hope! Maybe some day he'll get there I think he could be a 70+ pt guy some day if he can improve his skating.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

A part of me wouldn't mind Hudler back simply for entertainment purposes, the dude's pretty funny.

[Bannedforlife 403]

Off topic: anyone react to the "special friends" thing. Funny in a "I haven't slept for 36 hours" kind of way.

I was just going to say, didn't some of the players have not nice things to say about Hudler after he left? I seem to remember Chelios saying he was a "weird little dude" or something along those lines...

[The Secret 304]

I don't miss him personally, but his points would have been nice this year.

For what Huds is locked up on, I'd rather see that money spent on a Free Agent that actually wants to play for the Detroit Red Wings.

I'm with you on this one... I'd rather have a player that wants to be in Detroit. the way he left cost us signing a player we could have used this year (...even if that player was Samuelsson)

I was just going to say, didn't some of the players have not nice things to say about Hudler after he left? I seem to remember Chelios saying he was a "weird little dude" or something along those lines...

He was a veird little dude... his Clucking thing he did for Osgood was creepy

[Superman54 91]

Hudler would be a nice addition to have back, He can put the puck in the net, and thats something our replacements (Bertuzzi, Williams) aren't capable of doing as of now. Holland was really hand cuffed last june though so you can't falter him.

Edited March 17, 2010 by Superman54

[eva unit zero 271]

Last year Hudler and Filppula had the exact same "points per minute" at even strength. (ie if you gave Hudler Filppula's ES minutes last year, he would have scored a whopping .1 point more than Filppula). I think Filppula would have a higher points per minute at even strength if Filppula didn't play in all situations.

I'm sick of the "hudler did so well with so little minutes" gig. If you gave Filppula Hudler's PP time last year, Filppula scores over 50 points and Hudler doesn't even break 40. All his points came from the massive amount of PP time he got. Only Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Holmstrom got more.

I'll even go further. Last year, Hudler had .113 PPM on the PP. This year Filppula has .083. BUT, compare the linemates they had on the PP.

http://www.dobberhoc...nations&sent=go

http://www.dobberhoc...nations&sent=go

It's black and white.

Big difference? Hudler was playing with guys like Draper and Maltby. Give Filppula those linemates, and see what it does to his PPG. And btw, Hudler scored more at even strength than on the power play. He also scored more at even strength than Teemu Selanne, who had the same number of power play points. Hudler and Selanne played comparable total time on ice in each situation. Does this make Hudler a comparable player to Teemu Selanne in offensive capability? His offensive numbers in all situations were very similar in 2008-09.

The simple facts are, Hudler was always a threat to score, and produced a ton of offense for the Wings in 08-09. Filppula has been OK offensively, but has never been as much of an offensive powerhouse for the Wings, in terms of creating offense on his own out of nothing, playmaking ability, or simply finishing skills. Stats can be manipulated to show whatever you want, but Filppula is not as good offensively as Hudler, and has not been.

If Hudler were given the top-six scoring role he deserved, he'd be a 70 or 80 point player. Add 40% to his ES production in 08-09 to give him 1st/2nd line type ES time, and he gets another 11 points. That's a 68 point winger-assuming his point production isn't increased further by better players. Certainly worth $2.875m.

[Barrie 900]

I was just going to say, didn't some of the players have not nice things to say about Hudler after he left? I seem to remember Chelios saying he was a "weird little dude" or something along those lines...

A game in 08-09, I was standing at the glass during warmups in the corner. The "weird little dude", while I was watching Ozzie make a save, shot a puck right at my face. It would have hit me right in the nose, haha. About a minute later he hit the glass with his stick right in front of the face of a guy with a faux hawk.

I hope he's back with the Wings next year.

[AIK'91 22]

Hudler was playing with guys like Draper and Maltby. Give Filppula those linemates, and see what it does to his PPG. And btw, Hudler scored more at even strength than on the power play. He also scored more at even strength than Teemu Selanne, who had the same number of power play points. Hudler and Selanne played comparable total time on ice in each situation. Does this make Hudler a comparable player to Teemu Selanne in offensive capability? His offensive numbers in all situations were very similar in 2008-09.

[/font]

Hudler actually seemed to play with the likes of Filppula and Samuelsson for most of last season. He even got the occasional shift with Z and Mule.

The simple facts are, Hudler was always a threat to score, and produced a ton of offense for the Wings in 08-09. Filppula has been OK offensively, but has never been as much of an offensive powerhouse for the Wings, in terms of creating offense on his own out of nothing, playmaking ability, or simply finishing skills. Stats can be manipulated to show whatever you want, but Filppula is not as good offensively as Hudler, and has not been.

Well, not after the Anaheim series last year. He pretty much disappeared after that point. And unlike Filppula, if Hudler's not scoring, he's not doing much else to help the team. You could even call him a liability defensively.

If Hudler were given the top-six scoring role he deserved, he'd be a 70 or 80 point player. Add 40% to his ES production in 08-09 to give him 1st/2nd line type ES time, and he gets another 11 points. That's a 68 point winger-assuming his point production isn't increased further by better players. Certainly worth $2.875m.

That's too much extrapolation. Hudler had a few opportunities on the top two lines, but always seemed to produce more when on the lower lines. Even though I thought Babcock often didn't give Hudler much of a chance, I can't say I blame him. Playing on the third and fourth lines, Hudler didn't have to match up against the other team's top defensemen. Additionally, he wouldn't have to help contain the top opposing forwards. Despite Hudler's world-class stickhandling, shot and offensive instincts, his lack of size and decent skating ability were too great to be placed on the top two lines.

Really, Hudler is more or less a powerplay specialist and lower line point producer. He's not dynamic enough a player to carry a team on his back. From your post, I know you'll disagree, but even Filppula has a better chance of developing into a player that can, as Babcock is fond of saying, "drive the bus" here.

Edited March 17, 2010 by AIK'91

[russianswede919293 95]

If you take Williams' contract away, and add the money that will be saved by Holmstrom and Lidstrom pay cuts when they re-sign contracts, then Jiri Hudler fits back in perfectly.

If the opt-out clause does exist I would expect #26 to be back next season.

[kylee 727]

if the prodigal son does come back next year can the wings add a "no defector" clause to his contract?

[ManLuv4Clears 7]

You could even call him He is a liability defensively.

Fixed

The question is, would his potential points outweigh that?

Edited March 17, 2010 by ManLuv4Clears

[Original-Six 254]

Fixed

The question is, would his potential points outweigh that?

umm...yes

ill take that 57 points with limited ice time/line mates please.

[king_malice 17]

I don't understand why people don't what Huds back he could easily put up 70pts on either the 1st or 2nd line of this team. How can you complain about getting a guy back like this when this team has a overpayed underpreforming Dan Cleary on the 2nd line? He has been a ghost this season along with the on and off again play with Bertuzzi. Hudler is a great young player which will help this team and give us a much better 2nd unit PP.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

I don't understand why people don't what Huds back he could easily put up 70pts on either the 1st or 2nd line of this team. How can you complain about getting a guy back like this when this team has a overpayed underpreforming Dan Cleary on the 2nd line? He has been a ghost this season along with the on and off again play with Bertuzzi. Hudler is a great young player which will help this team and give us a much better 2nd unit PP.

I don't want him back in Detroit.He may be able to put up 40-50 points,but for the amount of ice time he got when he was here before,he should more like 65-80.He's not defensively responsible.He doesn't know what backcheck or forecheck means.I'd rather see Detroit go after a more well rounded player.

[king_malice 17]

I don't want him back in Detroit.He may be able to put up 40-50 points,but for the amount of ice time he got when he was here before,he should more like 65-80.He's not defensively responsible.He doesn't know what backcheck or forecheck means.I'd rather see Detroit go after a more well rounded player.

He put up 57 his last season with the wings...mostly on the 3rd line

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

He put up 57 his last season with the wings...mostly on the 3rd line

He got plenty of chances to play with Datsyuk and Zetterberg and Franzen on the top 2 last season...he should be able to put up more than 57.

[Echolalia 2,961]

50-60 points from a 3rd liner is plenty enough, especially considering what Hudler's salary will be. There's a definite possibility that if he returns he still won't be in the top six. One can't just assume that a 50 point scorer will be a lock-in for 70-80 points by playing more minutes on a higher line. Hudler excels against other third-liners, but hasn't been especially effective against other team's top six. So while some people like to look at Hudler as an under achieving top six player, I think a more realistic view is that he's one of the best bottom sixers league-wide. Of course if he wants to return and prove me wrong and score ten points less than Dats on the second line, I'll be totally fine with that.

[king_malice 17]

Don't forget he is still young and developing in 3 years he went from 25pts to 42pts to 57pts

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

50-60 points from a 3rd liner is plenty enough, especially considering what Hudler's salary will be. There's a definite possibility that if he returns he still won't be in the top six. One can't just assume that a 50 point scorer will be a lock-in for 70-80 points by playing more minutes on a higher line. Hudler excels against other third-liners, but hasn't been especially effective against other team's top six. So while some people like to look at Hudler as an under achieving top six player, I think a more realistic view is that he's one of the best bottom sixers league-wide. Of course if he wants to return and prove me wrong and score ten points less than Dats on the second line, I'll be totally fine with that.

Well part of the reason he left in the first place was becuase he wanted to be the star of the team and play big line minutes,which he proved he could not handle.I don't mind 60 points from a 3rd line but the bitching and controversy over why he isn't getting enough ice time and he doen't have the puck enough is ridiculous and i dont want that around here.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

Well part of the reason he left in the first place was becuase he wanted to be the star of the team and play big line minutes,which he proved he could not handle.I don't mind 60 points from a 3rd line but the bitching and controversy over why he isn't getting enough ice time and he doen't have the puck enough is ridiculous and i dont want that around here.

Prove it.

[king_malice 17]

Well part of the reason he left in the first place was becuase he wanted to be the star of the team and play big line minutes,which he proved he could not handle.I don't mind 60 points from a 3rd line but the bitching and controversy over why he isn't getting enough ice time and he doen't have the puck enough is ridiculous and i dont want that around here.

ok but how can you say that when guys like Bertuzzi have been playing top 2 lines all season and have like 37 points, ya we had injuries and i like Bertuzzi but he is more of a 3rd liner over Hudler or even Cleary 29 points ya he missed like 9-10 games but Hudler is also better then him for a 2nd liner. Why do people say he is bad at the D side of the game? the last time he was a minus was 03, and from 03 to his last season he was +33

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Fixed

The question is, would his potential points outweigh that?

57pts. Was he a minus? Nope.

How is that even a question for you?

I don't want him back in Detroit.He may be able to put up 40-50 points,but for the amount of ice time he got when he was here before,he should more like 65-80.He's not defensively responsible.He doesn't know what backcheck or forecheck means.I'd rather see Detroit go after a more well rounded player.

Yeah, Hudler's 12 mins a night of ice time was totally enough to put up 65-80.

And "may be able to put up 40-50 points"? He hasn't dipped below 40pts since his rookie season. His NHL numbers were 25/42/57 in his three years of play. Your description is as fitting as saying a new corvette may have 200 horsepower.

He got plenty of chances to play with Datsyuk and Zetterberg and Franzen on the top 2 last season...he should be able to put up more than 57.

Oh really? Which forwards topped that on the Wings last season? How much are they making this season? Seriously-- look it up.

[Z and D for the C 712]

Big difference? Hudler was playing with guys like Draper and Maltby. Give Filppula those linemates, and see what it does to his PPG. And btw, Hudler scored more at even strength than on the power play. He also scored more at even strength than Teemu Selanne, who had the same number of power play points. Hudler and Selanne played comparable total time on ice in each situation. Does this make Hudler a comparable player to Teemu Selanne in offensive capability? His offensive numbers in all situations were very similar in 2008-09.

The simple facts are, Hudler was always a threat to score, and produced a ton of offense for the Wings in 08-09. Filppula has been OK offensively, but has never been as much of an offensive powerhouse for the Wings, in terms of creating offense on his own out of nothing, playmaking ability, or simply finishing skills. Stats can be manipulated to show whatever you want, but Filppula is not as good offensively as Hudler, and has not been.

If Hudler were given the top-six scoring role he deserved, he'd be a 70 or 80 point player. Add 40% to his ES production in 08-09 to give him 1st/2nd line type ES time, and he gets another 11 points. That's a 68 point winger-assuming his point production isn't increased further by better players. Certainly worth $2.875m.

No, he did NOT play with the likes of Draper and Maltby.

http://www.dobberhockey.com/frozenpool_linecombo.php?selForward=DETHUDLER%2CJIRI&period=ALL&situation=EV&games=2008-2009%3AR%3A99&Submit=Show+Line+Combinations&sent=go (I'd also like to say that that site is THE BEST site on the internet)

Hudler had a whopping 1 more point at ES than on the PP.

I'm not manipulating the stats, I'm just telling you them. That stats show nothing BUT Filppula being as good as Hudler offensively, and better at everything else.

And I'm not saying that Hudler isn't well worth his 2.85m deal, it'd be great to have him back (though I'd rather spend 4-5m on a bonafide 2nd line scorer). But I think he is overrated on this board and and FATALLY sick of the "produce so much given his ice time" argument, it simply isn't true. He produced as much at ES as Filppula given his ice time and got a ton of PP time.