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Is Datsyuk a lock for the Selke?


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#21 j.hoop

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Posted 16 March 2010 - 03:50 PM

This is the hardest award to judge, because it's not something regular fans can see as well as coaches. It's not a statistical award per se.

Because of his and the team's underachieving season, plus the fact that he doesn't have many short-handed goals, plus the fact that he's won it twice in a row (meaning they'd rather give it to someone else), makes me say that he won't win it.


i think it unfortunately is a stat vote. if it came down to simply who was best datsyuk would in a landslide i say. no one can takeaway the puck, protect it, and turn it into a scoring chance like he can, and his backchecking is tremendous.

A couple of reasons

1. The Wings have always platooned PKers. I believe for a number of years our lineup has allowed us to rotate as many as 8 to 9 forwards for PK duty. And not slouches either. Flip, Clearly, etc... and now Miller and Eaves.

2. Datsyuk, IMO is the catalyst for the offense (forwards that is). It's my belief that as the most creative and most offensive guy we possess, his time is best served doing that, providing offense and offensive chances. Especially on a team that has lost as much production as it has this year.

The question isn't if Dats is the best defensive forward, why doesn't he have the most PK time? The question is, why would you burn up your top centerman with excess minutes on the PK night in and night out when you have 6+ fully capable, pking forwards? Lead by Z, the Wings have ample ability to send guys out who can do the job.

If the Wings didn't have the players who could kill, then Dats would be out there more. But since we have so many who are capable, best to let them eat up some of those minutes. You can't play Pav 30 minutes a night. And having him out there all night killing PK's might be a good thing but not at the expense of exhausting him on the offensive side of things when the Wings are probably 100 goals shorter in the production dept. this year.



my thoughts exactly.
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#22 dat's sick

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Posted 16 March 2010 - 03:50 PM

No other player in the league can accelerate trough the center of the neutral zone, back off 3 defenders, hold the puck to where two of them are within poke check range, decelerate and then pass the puck off to either the left or right side with just enough velocity that the recipient can take the pass in stride.

He does it effortlessly. He does it multiple times every game. Defenders know he's going to dish. Yet they still have to respect him and don't want to look like tards. What gets me is that they know he's coming right at them, right up the middle and yet they can't stand him up and when 9 out of 10 players would dish the puck, Pavel holds it another 1 or 2 seconds before dishing it off.

Seriously, defenders are well within poke check reach of Pav when he gains the zone yet they can't get that puck, and as soon as they do go for it, Pav is a split second faster in dishing it off. It's a thing of beauty and one of the many reasons why he supplanted Ciccarelli and Shanahan as the all time favorite player I ever got to watch.

He's amazing. And that little stickhandle he made right before blistering that top shelf, wrister last night. What a slick little move. Calgary forward went for the puck, pav with the quick stickhandle around him and BANG!

I could go on and on about Pav for hours.

Will he win Selke? Things like that go in stages. Somebody usually becomes the flavor of the year or years. That said, I think Pav, with his highlight reel takeaways (like the one he scored on Luongo I think) are keeping him in the forefront. That and everyone knows he backchecks like a demon and kills penalties.

Most complete player in the league. And still better than Zetterberg Eva. :)

Quality post. Watching Datsyuk play is the closest thing sports come to an artform in my eyes.
When he plays like he did last season and like has since the Olympic break, yeah I don't think there's any question he is the most complete player in the league.

That takeaway you're talking about, I think he scored on Pekka Rinne. It was beautiful and was heavily featured on NHL.com. That and the one he scored against Chicago when he stole the puck from Kane are the kind of plays that could very well lead to him winning the Selke again. Everyone knows he has a lot of takeaways, but when he manages to convert them into goals they get so much more attention and sort of make people realize what a special player he is.

#23 dicksmack

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Posted 16 March 2010 - 03:56 PM

Datsyuk is best two-way forward in the game and it's not even close. Nobody can do the things he does out there... Noooooobody.

He's won the Selke twice with less pk time than other notables... so why should it be the deciding factor now?


He's not a lock by any stretch and frankly I'd be surprised if he did given Detroit's questionable team defense and goaltending this year.
If he had Kesler's goalie, he might be a lock.
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#24 McAwesome

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Posted 16 March 2010 - 04:11 PM

The clear front runners for the Selke are Datsyuk and Kesler, without question. I can't even start to guess who would be the third nominee. Unfortunately the team performance will likely swing the voting in Kesler's favor, especially when factored in with Datsyuk's reduced PK time and the giveaway/takeaway difference. That being said, if Datsyuk continues to play like he has since the Olympic break, and more importantly if the Red Wings make the playoffs with Datsyuk leading the way, he has to be a lock, no one can deny that his skills are second to none and he has the highlights to prove it. Someone show me a highlight of Kesler picking someone pockets and scoring on the same play (I'm not saying he hasn't done it, I just want to see a highlight if anyone can find one)

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#25 titanium2

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Posted 16 March 2010 - 04:12 PM

I wasn't even aware he was up for a nomination because of all the press about how D & Z are no longer among the best two way players in the game. Plus, Datsyuk is on the 4th string of forwards for the PK.

#26 Yellowknife Redwing

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Posted 16 March 2010 - 05:01 PM

[quote name='rkade' date='16 March 2010 - 02:27 PM' timestamp='1268771221' post='1917302']
Can Kesler do this?

Or this?


Funny you should ask

Skip to 2:50

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bPCWWcuo8k

Such short memories we have

Datsyuk isn't a lock, but he should be considered among the front runners because he's still having an excellent season and is the defending champ. I honestly don't see him winning it, but I'm hoping.

#27 Wings Rule Crysby Drools

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Posted 16 March 2010 - 09:20 PM

I'd say Sidney Crosby.


I'd say you're trolling again.

#28 thedatsyukian

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Posted 16 March 2010 - 09:38 PM

Datsyuk won't win for the following reasons:

A.Lack of blocked shots
B.Lack of penalty kill time
C.Won the award twice in a row
D.He's having a down year offensively
E.Kesler has all the hype from the media and the Olympics only bolstered him.
F.Media isn't behind Datsyuk this time around.
G.Too many perceived struggles from Datsyuk and the Wings as a whole.

For all these reasons Kesler will win the award instead of Datsyuk whether I agree with the decision or not.

Edited by thedatsyukian, 16 March 2010 - 09:39 PM.

kay

#29 grsbmd

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Posted 16 March 2010 - 09:57 PM

I'd be willing to bet it will be Kesler. These awards usually end up going to the most popular candidate, and even though it wasn't the NHL, the olympic tournament got Kesler a lot of momentum in the media. Datsyuk's reduced offensive numbers will be enough an excuse for the voters to pick Kesler.
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#30 titanium2

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Posted 16 March 2010 - 10:05 PM

Will Zetterberg ever get a Selke? Me thinks no.

#31 BeeRYCE

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 01:19 AM

The Selke trophy in particular is a spectator trophy and that's all there is to it. Takeaways count sure, but those stats can be a bit inflated due to takeaways in the offensive zone. I mean guys can steal pucks in the offensive zone all they want, but does it mean they're remarkably responsible in their own end? Not always. The Selke trophy is a spectator trophy and that's all there is to it. Sure you can include +/- and PK efficiency, but there are still variables.

A player's name who hasn't come up (or at least I don't think) is Mike Richards... Ever watch this dude play? He gives it his all everywhere, every shift. Same goes with Alfredsson. If takeaways is such a factor, then why are guys like Maxim Afinogenov and Joe Thornton up there in that stat? They will never win a Selke in any lifetime. Why hasn't Mike Fisher's name come up either?

I'm not excusing Kesler and Datsyuk, because yes, they could be the front runners... But not on lock. They are top two in takeaways is that why?

Richards
Alfredsson
Fisher
Zetterberg
Burrows
Callahan
M. Koivu
J. Staal
Toews

... some guys to consider

And yes, I wouldn't have a hard time knowing Crosby would be getting votes. WATCH HIM PLAY, he is a workhorse in both ends.


When it's all said and done, I'd love to see Datsyuk get another one, he's one of my faves... But at the same time, Mike Richards deserves equal consideration, and it's unreal to see his name not mentioned.

#32 13dangledangle

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 01:22 AM

If Dats keeps putting up these numbers for the last 13(hehe)games, his point total would be like 84 points (assuming he gets 2 ponts per game) Hell if he averages 3 points per game for the final 13he'll hit 97 lol
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#33 Nev

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 01:55 AM

This is the hardest award to judge, because it's not something regular fans can see as well as coaches. It's not a statistical award per se.

Because of his and the team's underachieving season, plus the fact that he doesn't have many short-handed goals, plus the fact that he's won it twice in a row (meaning they'd rather give it to someone else), makes me say that he won't win it.



This. Like the Norris, its a trophy that's won in the media during the season, and no journalist has been saying much of a good thing about him this year.

That, plus whilst he leads all Wings forwards with a +13, that's only good for 27th in the NHL. The previous 3 years he's led all forwards in +/-. Face-off % is pretty impressive though.
"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#34 Yzerman19

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 02:43 AM

Detroit 9.2PM/game
Vancouver 15.somethingPM/game.

Here is why the PK time is that different.
SO yeah datsyuk is just Better. Kesler has more PK time because his team takes more penalties.

And as far as those takeaways videos, we have 2 of datsyuk for one of kesler. So short memories maybe, but still datsyuk is above.

#35 dragonballgtz

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 02:59 AM

Its sad to see that in order to get a Selke now a days you have to have some offensive output. What about the guys that can just plan out shut down a top line? I have always viewed the Selke as a role players trophy.

Edited by dragonballgtz, 17 March 2010 - 02:59 AM.


#36 titanium2

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 03:54 AM

Here is why the PK time is that different.
SO yeah datsyuk is just Better. Kesler has more PK time because his team takes more penalties.


It's not that simple when you examine more of the details of each of their respective SH TOI.

What about the fact that Kesler is 2nd among VAN forwards in SH TOI while Datsyuk is 8th (or for all intents and purposes 7th since Malts is out injured)?

Kesler is on the first string of forwards for the PK while Pav may or may not even get out there these days since Babs double shifts Helm and Eaves and still has to give time to Miller, Filppula, Cleary and Zetterberg. In fact, if you were to look up Pav on a situational ice time chart you would see that his PK time is virtually non-existent since Z and Cleary returned from injury.

#37 titanium2

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 04:07 AM

Its sad to see that in order to get a Selke now a days you have to have some offensive output. What about the guys that can just plan out shut down a top line? I have always viewed the Selke as a role players trophy.


It's a worthy observation. Before the lockout you had Madden, Peca (who has 2), Lehtinen (3) and Draper. After you had Brind'Amour with 2 and then Pav with 2 in which neither of them scored less than 80 points in a season. That's not just 'some' offensive output, that's scoring line output.

Just another thing you could perhaps chalk up to the league having to sell the game and promote their offensive stars as much as possible.

#38 Nev

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 06:09 AM

It's a worthy observation. Before the lockout you had Madden, Peca (who has 2), Lehtinen (3) and Draper. After you had Brind'Amour with 2 and then Pav with 2 in which neither of them scored less than 80 points in a season. That's not just 'some' offensive output, that's scoring line output.

Just another thing you could perhaps chalk up to the league having to sell the game and promote their offensive stars as much as possible.



Or you could look at it that the best defensive player those seasons also happened to be offensively talented. I believe they're called "2-way players"

You also forgot to mention that Francis, Yzerman and Federov (twice) won it pre-lockout. And that Lehtinen has five 20 goal and two 30 goal seasons.
"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#39 BeeRYCE

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 06:19 AM

Yeah, but I thought Selke was "two way forward", much like Norris and it's "two way defenseman" category.

But ya...

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#40 Finnish Wing

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 08:03 AM

Filppula is a lock. He's so good!
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