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Shoot Out Is Lame


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#1 russianswede919293

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 08:46 AM

Now I know it is too speculative to say just take away the extra point for winning in a shootout and call them all ties (since some of them wouldn't have been) because the shootout changes the way teams play in OT.

But I wanted to see what the standings would look like without it. Where if after OT its tied, both teams get 1 point, its a tie.

Posted Image

This is what the standings look like
http://www.nhl.com/ice/standings.htm

Atlanta would be in the playoffs, and everything would be different with seeding.

Also there would be less teams that were still in contention for the playoffs as well (especially in the west).

Detroit would be in 7th seed, not 8th, but would only be 1 point ahead of Calgary instead of 2.

I for one really hate the shootout, and this was something I did, just to see how it has changed things.

EDIT: Image wasn't showing.

Edited by russianswede919293, 21 March 2010 - 08:51 AM.


#2 SouthernWingsFan

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 08:52 AM

Even though the Wings have stunk at them overall this year, in general I still like shootouts and I think they have their place in the regular season.

Get rid of the dinky automatic point you get for going into overtime even if you lose.

3 points for a win in regulation
2 points for a win in overtime
1 point for a win in a shootout
0 points for a loss at any point in a game, no questions asked, no ifs/ands/buts

That solves your parity problem and truly rewards good teams for taking care of business as much and as early as possible, and also teams who do decent in overtime and the like.

#3 russianswede919293

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 08:54 AM

Even though the Wings have stunk at them overall this year, in general I still like shootouts and I think they have their place in the regular season.

Get rid of the dinky automatic point you get for going into overtime even if you lose.

3 points for a win in regulation
2 points for a win in overtime
1 point for a win in a shootout
0 points for a loss at any point in a game, no questions asked, no ifs/ands/buts

That solves your parity problem and truly rewards good teams for taking care of business as much and as early as possible, and also teams who do decent in overtime and the like.

Personally my problem is that I think you should have the same amount of points in every game, not some with 2 and some with 3.

If there was to be a new adjustment i would want to either get rid of the shootout, or go to 3 point regulation win, 2 point OT or shootout win and 1 point for OT or shootout loss 0 point for regulation loss

#4 Finnish Wing

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 09:04 AM

The best point system is 3 for win, 2 for OT win, 1 for OT loss and 0 for loss. Shootout ain't the problem.

And I know why some of you North Americans don't like when a loser gets points. That wouldn't be a problem either. The problem is that you've had that s***ty system where winner always gets the same amount of points and there is this "extra point" thing, which just doesn't work. That is why you probably hate when points are given for losing. I know I would too.

But trust me, it isn't a problem if you go with the 3 win, 2 OT win, 1 OT loss, 0 loss system. Everyone gets what they deserve. There is also the same amount of points on the line. No extra points.

Of course the problem is that NHL can't use that point system because the Europeans did it first. Kinda like with the SI system.

Even though the Wings have stunk at them overall this year, in general I still like shootouts and I think they have their place in the regular season.

Get rid of the dinky automatic point you get for going into overtime even if you lose.

3 points for a win in regulation
2 points for a win in overtime
1 point for a win in a shootout
0 points for a loss at any point in a game, no questions asked, no ifs/ands/buts

That solves your parity problem and truly rewards good teams for taking care of business as much and as early as possible, and also teams who do decent in overtime and the like.

The problem with this system is the same as with the current system. And trust me, it's a big problem that there aren't always the same amount of points on the line.
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#5 mindfly

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 09:28 AM

The best point system is 3 for win, 2 for OT win, 1 for OT loss and 0 for loss. Shootout ain't the problem.

And I know why some of you North Americans don't like when a loser gets points. That wouldn't be a problem either. The problem is that you've had that s***ty system where winner always gets the same amount of points and there is this "extra point" thing, which just doesn't work. That is why you probably hate when points are given for losing. I know I would too.

But trust me, it isn't a problem if you go with the 3 win, 2 OT win, 1 OT loss, 0 loss system. Everyone gets what they deserve. There is also the same amount of points on the line. No extra points.

Of course the problem is that NHL can't use that point system because the Europeans did it first. Kinda like with the SI system.

The problem with this system is the same as with the current system. And trust me, it's a big problem that there aren't always the same amount of points on the line.

Yes the euro leagues are much better with the point-system

#6 Cheveldae32

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 09:30 AM

Games that go in to OT and/or shootout are usually good, hard fought team games that should not be ended by individual skills. Are shootouts entertaining: yes, is the point system jacked up: yes. I wouldn't say that shootouts are the problem but I really hate seeing games ended that way.

#7 GMRwings1983

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 10:48 AM

Get rid of the shootout and bring back the tie.

If you can't win in regulation or OT, you don't deserve 2 points. Nothing wrong with ties.
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#8 Finnish Wing

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 10:57 AM

Get rid of the shootout and bring back the tie.

If you can't win in regulation or OT, you don't deserve 2 points. Nothing wrong with ties.

Yeah, some people dislike ties very much, but then it would also be possible to create a working point system.

I'd go with 2 for win and 1 for tie. Of course the soccer system (3 for win, 1 for tie) maybe rewards the win better and some people may like that, but then again there comes this inbalance. There wouldn't be always the same amount of points on the line, which is the main problem in the current system.

2 for win, 1 for tie, 0 loss is good. But I still think the 3 win, 2 OT win, 1 OT loss, 0 loss is the best.

Of course you could always remove the shootouts and play endless overtime. Let's say first 5 min OT 4on4 and after that endless OT 3on3. Or something like that. I'm sure the game would end faster if there would be less guys on the ice. Because the main reason why the shootouts exist is the length of the game.
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#9 Barrie

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 11:02 AM

Get rid of the shootout and bring back the tie.

If you can't win in regulation or OT, you don't deserve 2 points. Nothing wrong with ties.

Agreed, I never had a problem with ties. Actually some of the most exciting games I've seen live were ties.
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#10 Yellowknife Redwing

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 11:03 AM

Get rid of the shootout and bring back the tie.

If you can't win in regulation or OT, you don't deserve 2 points. Nothing wrong with ties.


It's not very often that I find myself wholeheartedly agreeing with you GMR, but here we are. 2 for a win, 1 for a tie, 0 for a loss. It wasn't broken in the first place.

#11 Finnish Wing

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 11:09 AM

It's not very often that I find myself wholeheartedly agreeing with you GMR, but here we are. 2 for a win, 1 for a tie, 0 for a loss. It wasn't broken in the first place.

I'm just guessing the players would rather choose between shootout loss and win than playing a tie game.
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#12 GMRwings1983

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 11:13 AM

It's not very often that I find myself wholeheartedly agreeing with you GMR, but here we are. 2 for a win, 1 for a tie, 0 for a loss. It wasn't broken in the first place.


I get that all the time. <_<
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#13 Barrie

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 11:14 AM

I think the NHL should hand out points like they did in the Olympics, every game is 3 points. 3-points for a regulation win, 2-points for a OT or SO win, 1-point for losing in OT, and 0 for losing in 60 minutes.

The SO isn't going anywhere, so in my opinion, this makes the most sense.
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#14 SDavis35

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 11:35 AM

Agreed, I never had a problem with ties. Actually some of the most exciting games I've seen live were ties.


Even the scoreless ties were great to watch!

As for the Standings shift in the OP... it feels as though there's not much difference when it comes to the playoff races. Still fairly close, anything can happen. Either the original W-L-T or the International/Euro W-OTW-OTL-L would be nice. Problem is... might be a little difficult for the mathematicians at the NHL ;)

Edited by SDavis35, 21 March 2010 - 11:35 AM.


#15 auxlepli

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 11:45 AM

I for one really hate the shootout,


I have an idea for you ... stop watching NHL games, and stop attending NHL games.
In fact stop posting on NHL-related Web sites.
Stop supporting NHL in anyway, then maybe owners and players will realize your dissatisfaction and change the rules so you won't have to endure another NHL shootout.

#16 CanadaBoy

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 11:47 AM

I think the NHL should hand out points like they did in the Olympics, every game is 3 points. 3-points for a regulation win, 2-points for a OT or SO win, 1-point for losing in OT, and 0 for losing in 60 minutes.

The SO isn't going anywhere, so in my opinion, this makes the most sense.


Agreed. Much better than the current system. And probably the best compromise we will get.

Edit: I'll add that it would be very interesting to see NHL standings with Olympic rules.

Edited by CanadaBoy, 21 March 2010 - 12:12 PM.

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#17 SouthernWingsFan

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 12:49 PM

I have an idea for you ... stop watching NHL games, and stop attending NHL games.
In fact stop posting on NHL-related Web sites.
Stop supporting NHL in anyway, then maybe owners and players will realize your dissatisfaction and change the rules so you won't have to endure another NHL shootout.

You can still support the NHL and hockey without having to like shootouts.

#18 Buppy

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 02:01 PM

Posted Image

Recalculated points using a few different methods.

Pts = Current system
3 Pt (OT) = 3 points for a regulation or OT win, 2 for SO win, 1 for SO loss, 0 for loss in regulation or OT
3 Pt (SO) = 3 points for a regulation win, 2 for OT or SO win, 1 for OT/SO loss, 0 for regulation loss
2 Pt = Just straight win/loss record. Win is a win, a loss is a loss.
Tie = No shootouts. 2 points for a win (regulation or OT), 0 for loss, 1 point for a tie. Games that went to shootouts considered ties.

I also show what the seedings would be under the different scoring systems. (Wasn't all that careful with tiebreakers, so maybe not perfect...)

Worth noting:
Wings would not be in the playoffs under any of the alternate systems.
Boston would drop out in 3 of 4 alternates
New Jersey would lead the Atlantic in all
East doesn't change at all besides those two
Seeding in the West changes quite a bit

#19 Howard He Do It?!

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 02:01 PM

I have an idea for you ... stop watching NHL games, and stop attending NHL games.
In fact stop posting on NHL-related Web sites.
Stop supporting NHL in anyway, then maybe owners and players will realize your dissatisfaction and change the rules so you won't have to endure another NHL shootout.

I'd take your own advice. Talk about a misplaced rant.

I don't like the instigator rule, but I am not going to stop watching the NHL because of it. That would just be stupid.

Edited by Howard He Do It?!, 21 March 2010 - 02:01 PM.

Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image


Round 1: Red Wings (4) vs. Coyotes (0)
Round 2: Red Wings (0) vs. Sharks (0)


#20 eva unit zero

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 06:44 PM

I have a problem with some of this;

What makes an OT win equal to a SO win and not a regulation win? The complaint about the shootout is that the game is won by individual skills. OT wins are won just as much through normal hockey as regulation wins are.

So the system I have proposed since shootouts were first suggested to end tied games is:

Regulation/OT win: 3 points
Shootout win: 2 points
Shootout loss: 1 point
Regulation loss: 0 points

This way, if a team wins simply through playing hockey, they get 3 points, and if they loss that way, nothing.

If the game is tied after 65 minutes, then each team deserves a point, and the shootout determines who gets the third point.

Another option, if shootouts remain, is to simply remove points altogether, and go by straight W/L record.

A third option is to remove shootouts and bring back ties.

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