Winter Classic 2011

[lightthelamp13 0]

while I agree that Pittsburgh going in it again is kind of unfortunate, it doesn't even bother me. You guys all see the games. Caps and Pens. They are by far the best games that the NHL has to offer. Those two guys go at each others throats. When these two teams play, it's always a great game, and you know that something crazy is going to happen. What's there to complain about?

devils vs rangers?

leafs vs habs?

anybody else vs anybody else?

no thanks.

i'm as diehard a red wing fan you'll find, but give me Caps vs. Pens any day of the week.

[Carman 387]

Wouldn't be a bad idea. The two best players in the game, two very good playoff teams, and conference rivals.

Seems like a given to me?

The Winter Classic is about making money, and this match-up would more than likely have the most draw than any other match up.

I love how I get -8 for this post. It makes me giggle.

[Echolalia 2,961]

But don't you think that other teams deserve a shot to play in the Winter Classic as well??

It's not fair to other teams and their fans. This is just another way to shove Pitt and Crosby down everyone's throats.

I certainly think that other teams deserve a shot in the Winter Classic. Ideally, everyone would get a shot at it before seconds started going around. But like I mentioned, the NHL is a business and as a result their decisions are going to be dictated by what will be the most profitable for the league. Ever since Crosby came into the league, the NHL has been exploiting his talent to develop a fan base of people who normally would be uninterested in hockey. Whether that has been successful or not, Crosby is now beyond celebrity status, and when his name comes up, whether you love him or hate him (and you either absolutely love him or absolutely hate him), you're paying attention to what context his name was brought up in. This is evident in every hockey forum and blog that has been in existence since he was drafted. That makes him marketable. Whether for you personally he's being marketed as a villain or a hero is up to you, but he still gets people's attention and that's all the NHL wants.

Ovechkin does the same thing. He get's people's attention, and one of the NHL's best moves IMO was marketing him as Crosby's rival, especially after they noticed how people responded to Crosby being shoved down our throats. If you love Crosby, you're going to hate Ovechkin and take joy in his short-comings. If you hate Crosby, then you're going to love Ovechkin and take joy whenever he can put Crosby in his place. This has pretty much become law in hockey fandom (yes there are exceptions, but I'm pretty comfortable guessing that close to 99% of hockey fans fit this bill). That's why a Crosby/Ovechkin battle is pretty much guaranteed to break profit records for a Winter Classic, and to capitalize on this opportunity, the NHL wants to get this WC out of the way before the rivalry subsides or one team falls from their peak.

Additionally, with Crosby making a name for himself as the enemy of the US by winning the Olympic gold, its much more likely that the NHL could pick up a number of folks who turned into the gold-medal game but are otherwise not hockey fans, because they heard this Ovechkin guy stands for everything Crosby doesn't and might enjoy retribution in some manner.

Finally, I'm guessing NBC may have requested this match-up specifically because they have their own ratings to worry about. I wouldn't be surprised if NBC even threatened to discontinue its partnership with the NHL if this match-up doesn't happen. Bettman seems to take it up the ass when it comes to NBC, and I assume they're holding TV coverage over his head.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

I love how I get -8 for this post. It makes me giggle.

For an overall of -231. Not even the great mindfly has a rating that poor.

[rage 24]

I certainly think that other teams deserve a shot in the Winter Classic. Ideally, everyone would get a shot at it before seconds started going around. But like I mentioned, the NHL is a business and as a result their decisions are going to be dictated by what will be the most profitable for the league. Ever since Crosby came into the league, the NHL has been exploiting his talent to develop a fan base of people who normally would be uninterested in hockey. Whether that has been successful or not, Crosby is now beyond celebrity status, and when his name comes up, whether you love him or hate him (and you either absolutely love him or absolutely hate him), you're paying attention to what context his name was brought up in. This is evident in every hockey forum and blog that has been in existence since he was drafted. That makes him marketable. Whether for you personally he's being marketed as a villain or a hero is up to you, but he still gets people's attention and that's all the NHL wants.

Ovechkin does the same thing. He get's people's attention, and one of the NHL's best moves IMO was marketing him as Crosby's rival, especially after they noticed how people responded to Crosby being shoved down our throats. If you love Crosby, you're going to hate Ovechkin and take joy in his short-comings. If you hate Crosby, then you're going to love Ovechkin and take joy whenever he can put Crosby in his place. This has pretty much become law in hockey fandom (yes there are exceptions, but I'm pretty comfortable guessing that close to 99% of hockey fans fit this bill). That's why a Crosby/Ovechkin battle is pretty much guaranteed to break profit records for a Winter Classic, and to capitalize on this opportunity, the NHL wants to get this WC out of the way before the rivalry subsides or one team falls from their peak.

Additionally, with Crosby making a name for himself as the enemy of the US by winning the Olympic gold, its much more likely that the NHL could pick up a number of folks who turned into the gold-medal game but are otherwise not hockey fans, because they heard this Ovechkin guy stands for everything Crosby doesn't and might enjoy retribution in some manner.

Finally, I'm guessing NBC may have requested this match-up specifically because they have their own ratings to worry about. I wouldn't be surprised if NBC even threatened to discontinue its partnership with the NHL if this match-up doesn't happen. Bettman seems to take it up the ass when it comes to NBC, and I assume they're holding TV coverage over his head.

You make several wonderful points, but i simply can't believe that they are going to be putting Pitt back in the WC before other teams get a chance. It's just not fair. And the NHL is all about being fair, that's why they have a Salary Cap and sends money from teams like Detroit to teams like Florida. Why should this be any different I ask you?? All because it's what NBC and Bettman want I am sure.

It's just not fair to the other teams and their fans. Simple as that IMO.

[rick zombo 3,739]

It's weird that the NHL with it's salary cap and whatnot likes to promote equality amongst teams and markets.

Yet they unfairly promote certain teams over others.

Even the NFL has Lions vs Dolphins (hypothetically) on Monday Night Football.

[titanium2 867]

I think we should all just get used to the fact that the Pens are the cash cow of the NHL. Bettman and Co. are scratching and clawing for fans from their fat cat seats. The faster we can all get to the point or something near it where all this publicity doesn't bother hockey fans or inspire any emotion of any kind the better off we'll be. I really hope one day we'll be able to treat all this mess in the manner of, "Parise scored last night. Yep that's how he is." We hear about it and then we're done with it right away.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

It's weird that the NHL with it's salary cap and whatnot likes to promote equality amongst teams and markets.

Yet they unfairly promote certain teams over others.

Even the NFL has Lions vs Dolphins (hypothetically) on Monday Night Football.

You really don't understand the difference between creating competition between teams in the NHL and focusing media attention on the most profitable teams in the NHL?

[godwings19 0]

If Crysby is in the Classic I will not watch it! I do not watch Penguins games because of him (unless they play the Wings). I simply cannot stand how much attention his overrated ass gets and to be honest the games really are not that good anyway! I think if its Pittsburgh/Washington that I would rather watch the College Bowl Games! Way to fail again Bettman!

i would rather watch grass grow.... i agree completely with u man....

[Nev 1,085]

NHL announces 2012 + 2013 Winter Classics

2012: Pittsburgh v Philly @ Heinz Field

2013: Pittsburgh v Washington @ Heinz Field

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Wouldn't be a bad idea. The two best players in the game, two very good playoff teams, and conference rivals.

Seems like a given to me?

The Winter Classic is about making money, and this match-up would more than likely have the most draw than any other match up.

Clearly Ovechkin will be there but when did you hear Sedin was going to be playing for the Caps or Pens next season?

You really don't understand the difference between creating competition between teams in the NHL and focusing media attention on the most profitable teams in the NHL?

If this was about the most profitable teams in the NHL the Leafs would be playing in the 2011 Winter Classic.

Some of the replies in this thread make me seriously wonder if people here have ever worked with a national marketing campaign.

lol wut?

You needed to read the replies here to question that? What percentage of the world population do you assume has worked with a national marketing campaign?

[FunkedUp 29]

I hope that there is a Pens vs. Caps WC match-up and that Sid and AO both miss the game due to short term injuries.

[titanium2 867]

I hope that there is a Pens vs. Caps WC match-up and that Sid and AO both miss the game due to short term injuries.

Because they're secret lovers.

[cupforwings 138]

lol wut?

You needed to read the replies here to question that? What percentage of the world population do you assume has worked with a national marketing campaign?

HAHAHAHAHA

The guy has point in assuming everybody on this hockey forum works on national marketing campaigns.

that deserves to be in a signature

Edited March 29, 2010 by cupforwings

[Kira 451]

But don't you think that other teams deserve a shot to play in the Winter Classic as well??

It's not fair to other teams and their fans. This is just another way to shove Pitt and Crosby down everyone's throats.

My thoughts exactly. I, for one, am so damned sick and tired of having Crosby shoved down my throat, it's not funny. Enough already. He makes me nauseous. That is why I'd much rather see Dallas and Minnesota, or Colorado and San Jose (actually, Colorado and Vancouver would be great if we could convince Bettman to let a Canadian team play), or even the Rangers and the Islanders over the Penguins again. Give us a break, for cryin' out loud.

[Uncle Danny 155]

lol wut?

You needed to read the replies here to question that? What percentage of the world population do you assume has worked with a national marketing campaign?

Heh. Well done. Lump taken graciously, and I admit to poor words on my part.

All I really meant by that, as I think the rest of my post illustrated, is that if you think about the NHL as a business (and one that lost a significant market share following the lockout), it makes more sense to approach the Winter Classic as an acquisition opportunity than as a platform for user retention. When you only get center stage once (or so) a year, you don't use it to sing to your girlfriend despite your shareholders.

I'm not even a marketer, and I can see that.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Heh. Well done. Lump taken graciously, and I admit to poor words on my part.

All I really meant by that, as I think the rest of my post illustrated, is that if you think about the NHL as a business (and one that lost a significant market share following the lockout), it makes more sense to approach the Winter Classic as an acquisition opportunity than as a platform for user retention. When you only get center stage once (or so) a year, you don't use it to sing to your girlfriend despite your shareholders.

I'm not even a marketer, and I can see that.

I get what you're saying man. I'm not advocating they do a Nashville vs. Minnesota game but I think they can do a better job than using Pitts again. The market is saturated with Crosby.

The Caps should definitely be one of the teams-- Ovi sells the game and they haven't been in a classic yet. What about the Rangers? The NY market is retardedly huge. The Kings? That's another huge market that would turn in just because it's a local team. Plus they're young and upcomers. The Sharks are a good choice too-- they actually have a very strong following and are full of stars.

I think it'd be smart to include an NCAA rivalry game alongside the WC as well. NCAA rivalry sells in the USA. Michigan vs Ohio anyone? Fans from Basketball and Football know how hot that game would be and just might tune in hoping to see some fights.

[Guest mindfly]

It's weird that the NHL with it's salary cap and whatnot likes to promote equality amongst teams and markets.

Yet they unfairly promote certain teams over others.

Even the NFL has Lions vs Dolphins (hypothetically) on Monday Night Football.

hey hey dolphins rule okay... Jake Long ftw!

[Uncle Danny 155]

I get what you're saying man. I'm not advocating they do a Nashville vs. Minnesota game but I think they can do a better job than using Pitts again. The market is saturated with Crosby.

The Caps should definitely be one of the teams-- Ovi sells the game and they haven't been in a classic yet. What about the Rangers? The NY market is retardedly huge. The Kings? That's another huge market that would turn in just because it's a local team. Plus they're young and upcomers. The Sharks are a good choice too-- they actually have a very strong following and are full of stars.

I think it'd be smart to include an NCAA rivalry game alongside the WC as well. NCAA rivalry sells in the USA. Michigan vs Ohio anyone? Fans from Basketball and Football know how hot that game would be and just might tune in hoping to see some fights.

Spasibo for not twisting the knife

I understand your point as well, and could get behind a Caps/Rangers match-up for the reason you've outlined. I still maintain that LA and San Jose would not work nearly so well. New York has a rabid culture proud of its, well, New York-ness. People otherwise completely agnostic to hockey would tune in to either watch them succeed or fail (who doesn't love a good David and Goliath story?)

LA, not so much. They have some history, and a young and upcoming team (whom I love despite my inherent distaste for LA), but no real foundation for the love of the game...especially when the Lakers are in mid season. San Jose is an interesting choice, and taps into a fairly knowledgeable and devoted fanbase out here. But, even when you include far NorCal, you're still only talking about 8-9 million people to draw from. That's less than NYC has itself.

All that said, I still think a Pens/Caps game makes the most business sense, no matter how sick of Crosby I am (and I am!).

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Spasibo for not twisting the knife

I understand your point as well, and could get behind a Caps/Rangers match-up for the reason you've outlined. I still maintain that LA and San Jose would not work nearly so well. New York has a rabid culture proud of its, well, New York-ness. People otherwise completely agnostic to hockey would tune in to either watch them succeed or fail (who doesn't love a good David and Goliath story?)

LA, not so much. They have some history, and a young and upcoming team (whom I love despite my inherent distaste for LA), but no real foundation for the love of the game...especially when the Lakers are in mid season. San Jose is an interesting choice, and taps into a fairly knowledgeable and devoted fanbase out here. But, even when you include far NorCal, you're still only talking about 8-9 million people to draw from. That's less than NYC has itself.

All that said, I still think a Pens/Caps game makes the most business sense, no matter how sick of Crosby I am (and I am!).

Just imagine the ratings you'd get with Caps vs Rangers at the new Yankee stadium!

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

If this was about the most profitable teams in the NHL the Leafs would be playing in the 2011 Winter Classic.

NBC doesn't make money off Canadian teams playing in the Winter Classic.

[MTU_Huskies963 398]

The NHL only cares about ratings now, they never have a long term plan for the future. If you keep marketing the same teams how do you expect the league to grow. This is why teams like Phoenix fail. Last year their was an article on the machines they use to keep the ice in good condition. They explained how there is nothing preventing them from doing something like this in a warmer climate. I would like to see Sharks vs. Ducks with palm trees in the background. Now that would attract viewers.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

NBC doesn't make money off Canadian teams playing in the Winter Classic.

Well played.

By the way-- I hate that the NHL, as a league, bend over for network tv worse than any other sport. We have zero bargaining power. NBC wants the Cup Finals moved ahead a week? Bettman says "yes sir!".

The NHL only cares about ratings now, they never have a long term plan for the future. If you keep marketing the same teams how do you expect the league to grow. This is why teams like Phoenix fail. Last year their was an article on the machines they use to keep the ice in good condition. They explained how there is nothing preventing them from doing something like this in a warmer climate. I would like to see Sharks vs. Ducks with palm trees in the background. Now that would attract viewers.

Holy crap that would be cool looking. Really bizarre but definitely cool.

Didn't Gretzky play an exhibition in Vegas back in the 90's?

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

Well played.

By the way-- I hate that the NHL, as a league, bend over for network tv worse than any other sport. We have zero bargaining power. NBC wants the Cup Finals moved ahead a week? Bettman says "yes sir!".

Holy crap that would be cool looking. Really bizarre but definitely cool.

Didn't Gretzky play an exhibition in Vegas back in the 90's?

This whole idea of Crosby vs. Ovechkin in the Winter Classic is such a crock of s***.Pittsburgh just played Buffalo a few years ago in the Classic.Jesus Christ,there's many more teams besides s***tsburgh in this league.Yes,Crosby vs. Ovechkin would be great,but seriously what about the other great hockey regions that haven't even been involved in a Winter Classic yet,like Minnesota,St.Louis,Montreal,Ottawa,Toronto,Vancouver,Calgary,Edmonton,Colorado,New Jersey,etc.I don't care whether NBC doesn't make profit off of Canadian teams.That's a crock of s*** too.If the Winter Classic is really about promoting the game of hockey,they will put the games wherever they would get the most exposure,regardless of the ******* profits involved.The money will come later if the game is exposed in the right place.

[MTU_Huskies963 398]

This whole idea of Crosby vs. Ovechkin in the Winter Classic is such a crock of s***.Pittsburgh just played Buffalo a few years ago in the Classic.Jesus Christ,there's many more teams besides s***tsburgh in this league.Yes,Crosby vs. Ovechkin would be great,but seriously what about the other great hockey regions that haven't even been involved in a Winter Classic yet,like Minnesota,St.Louis,Montreal,Ottawa,Toronto,Vancouver,Calgary,Edmonton,Colorado,New Jersey,etc.I don't care whether NBC doesn't make profit off of Canadian teams.That's a crock of s*** too.If the Winter Classic is really about promoting the game of hockey,they will put the games wherever they would get the most exposure,regardless of the ******* profits involved.The money will come later if the game is exposed in the right place.

Lol the way this league markets they would be doomed if OV and Crosby collided in a knee to knee and had career ending injuries. I don't even know if I would call the Pens Caps a rivalry it's more between Crosby and OV. I feel if you took those two off of their teams nothing would be there. I guess you could say the same for some other rivalries.