Can the wings afford howard?

[13dangledangle 957]

Agreed. But that's why I'm glad of three things about this situation:

1. Howard isn't up for until next summer-- he'll have to do just as well next year.

2. Howard will be an RFA (I believe)

3. Ken Holland is the best GM in the NHL.

...just in case you wanted a fourth

4. Thomas McCollum & Daniel Larsson-Our *worst case scenario.

(Just want to point out I want Howard here as per Im getting his jersey )

Edited March 29, 2010 by 13dangledangle

[JPT 26]

Any discussions about a long term deal are premature at this point. As others have said lets see what he does in the playoffs and then again next season. If towards the end of next season he's proven himself to be a starting goalie going forward then maybe a 3-4 yr deal for around 3 mil a season sounds reasonable.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

...just in case you wanted a fourth

4. Thomas McCollum & Daniel Larsson-Our *worst case scenario.

(Just want to point out I want Howard here as per Im getting his jersey )

I'm leaning towards a Howie jersey too. I always wait until the next contract, though, just to be sure. That's how I managed to avoid having a useless Hudler jersey in my closet.

[Zata fan 40 6]

I'd be interested in that useless Hudler.

[13dangledangle 957]

I'm leaning towards a Howie jersey too. I always wait until the next contract, though, just to be sure. That's how I managed to avoid having a useless Hudler jersey in my closet.

I hear that, especially the way he left, it's similar to sporting a Fedorov Jersey. lol

[mmamolo 287]

Let's assume Howard keeps up his play through this year's playoffs and throughout next season and the 2010-11 playoffs. Personally I'd imagine he'd get the same treatment as the other young players that established themselves as part of the young core of the Wings moving forward (Kronwall, Filppula etc) and would get a similar contract. They got 5 year deals with their pay increasing over those years to reduce their cap hit. I'm not saying Howard would necessarily get 5 years because as ppl have mentioned goaltenders are a little riskier in terms of term of contract but I think he'd be treated similarly. I could see a 3-5 year deal in the $2.5-3M/yr range. Which, in my opinion, based on experience and performance would be fair.

It's true that his numbers are extremely good and that if they continued to be that solid through 2010-11 that some could argue that would be enough to establish himself as a legit potential long term #1 guy in my mind I think that earns you the trust and faith of a 3-5 contract as I outlined above. Personally I dont think that earns you a $5M/yr contract.

Also, after the 2010-11 season Osgood's contract is up and you'd imagine that either he'd retire or he'd be our full blown back up and would be paid accordingly (say 750k). Draper's deal would be up and he'd almost for sure retire as well or see a pay decrease (from his $1.583M/yr deal). So even if Draper resigned for say 750k suddenly you have an additional $1.5M to go towards Howard's new deal, plus the 715k coming off the original Howard deal for a total of $2.215M. If Howard were to get a deal with a $3M cap hit you only need an additional 785k to make that happen.

I think they'll absolutely make the room. After all the time and energy they put into this kid there is no way they let him walk if his play continues at this pace - let alone if he continues to grow and mature over the course of the next year +. Howard was, and still is, looked on as the goalie of the future. Ideally he has, or will, join the young core of players we'll watch for years to come on this Red Wings team.

[Yzerfan1999 81]

Let's assume Howard keeps up his play through this year's playoffs and throughout next season and the 2010-11 playoffs. Personally I'd imagine he'd get the same treatment as the other young players that established themselves as part of the young core of the Wings moving forward (Kronwall, Filppula etc) and would get a similar contract. They got 5 year deals with their pay increasing over those years to reduce their cap hit. I'm not saying Howard would necessarily get 5 years because as ppl have mentioned goaltenders are a little riskier in terms of term of contract but I think he'd be treated similarly. I could see a 3-5 year deal in the $2.5-3M/yr range. Which, in my opinion, based on experience and performance would be fair.

It's true that his numbers are extremely good and that if they continued to be that solid through 2010-11 that some could argue that would be enough to establish himself as a legit potential long term #1 guy in my mind I think that earns you the trust and faith of a 3-5 contract as I outlined above. Personally I dont think that earns you a $5M/yr contract.

Also, after the 2010-11 season Osgood's contract is up and you'd imagine that either he'd retire or he'd be our full blown back up and would be paid accordingly (say 750k). Draper's deal would be up and he'd almost for sure retire as well or see a pay decrease (from his $1.583M/yr deal). So even if Draper resigned for say 750k suddenly you have an additional $1.5M to go towards Howard's new deal, plus the 715k coming off the original Howard deal for a total of $2.215M. If Howard were to get a deal with a $3M cap hit you only need an additional 785k to make that happen.

I think they'll absolutely make the room. After all the time and energy they put into this kid there is no way they let him walk if his play continues at this pace - let alone if he continues to grow and mature over the course of the next year +. Howard was, and still is, looked on as the goalie of the future. Ideally he has, or will, join the young core of players we'll watch for years to come on this Red Wings team.

THIS.

Draper's contract coming to an end, and Lidstrom most likely only resigning for 1 year beyond this one, the Wings will have some cap space to work with Howard. My guess is he gets a 4-5 year contract averaging 3-3.5 per season.

[mikl657 2]

I hear that, especially the way he left, it's similar to sporting a Fedorov Jersey. lol

for some reason I think the whole hudler leaving thing was planned, its when the league dragged it out that messed holland up

[RedWingsRox 614]

When it comes to playoffs experience for Howie, realistically what kind of performance would you be happy with? Afterall, he is a rookie. Personally, if we go deep into round 2, I think he'd learn a lot. If we go into Conference Final, then I think he would get some really good playoff experience.

[funguy21 2]

Yeah I disagree I really highly doubt that Howard going to take a discount if he continues to play like he is now deep into the playoffs and next year. Yeah they got lucky with Howard this year but I highly doubt they anticipated the result they got. Really he been with the team for 5 years he played a few games here and there when injuries came up in those years. Last year they decided to go and get a back up rather then take a chance on Howard. This year was a transition year and that is the only reason Howard was playing and they didn't even expect him to do anything maybe win 25 games like Conklin did last year. This year the wings had no choice but to bring him up or lose him. If the Wings had more money and could have brought in another back up they would have easily let Howard go to via waiver or free agency or how ever he would have been lost. If you look at it from the Red Wings perspective last off season. They had Osgood who just brought the team to game 7 after winning the cup a year before and Jimmy Howard who has consistently under achieved in his 5 years in the griffins. Knowing that Osgood has weak season and strong playoff if they had more cap space in off season they would have kept Conklin or found someone else to back up Osgood who was not Howard. Howard would have been picked up by some other team and played back up to some superstar goalie or put on waiver and play a few more years for an AHL team. Howard got lucky with the cap and being able to play in the NHL. That was the only break he needed cause he stole the show and now he is firmly in the starter position. If he plays like this next year he has all the power on his side to get whatever he wants out of the Wings. Hockey is after all only a business and well business is good for Howard. He knows as well as anybody else that he could have as easily been playing somewhere else this season. This season wasn't we are finally going to see what our goalie of the future can do it was more like last chance Howard. So considering he was an after thought for 5 season placed as back up just cause we couldn't afford any one else and his entry contract was up and we could sign him for cheap. Also consider the number he has put up this year saving our asses for the good part of the season and he is Calder cup nominee that not even including his potential in the play offs and next season. Howard has the wings by the short and curlies and frankly if continues to play this well he will deserve a significant increase in pay. Which Detroit will happily pay especially if he has two strong season. He will not get a long contract 2 maybe 3 years makes. To risky to go long with a goalie some where down the road on or the other or both our going to be disappointed with there deal. Goalies tend to go up and down thats why there contract should be short term.

[Grim 5]

having an overachieving goalie is supposed to be a blessing! lets see how he does this postseason first, before drawing conclusions. Believe it or not, Kenny would certainly have been looking for an upgrade in goalie this summer (Turco? Biron?)... better to spend that money in-house if Howie is indeed ready to take that role.

[paulwoodsfan 52]

Holland stated pretty forcefully last season that he is no longer in favour of tying up a lot of money on goalies. That was a pretty big change from what things were like with Hasek and Joseph, but that was before the cap came in. I love Howard but I can't see paying him more than $2-3M/year, especially with Larsson and McCollum in the wings.

[eva unit zero 271]

thing is that jim carey was a one year wonder... look what happened to him when he got the big contract... the money for howard will come when lidstrom and rafalski retire...

Carey's story is actually an interesting one.

He skyrocketed to stardom with the Capitals, being named to the All-Rookie team in 94-95 and winning (wrongly IMHO) the Vezina in 95-96. His play slipped in 96-97, as did the entire Capitals team. He was traded to Boston in a blockbuster deal as they handed over the reins to future star Olaf Kolzig.

In Boston, he was inconsistent and ended up spending part of his only full season there in the minors due to the impressive play of Byron Dafoe.

The following summer, Carey signed with the Blues. He would play four games and perform unremarkably before being sent down for a conditioning stint. While playing for Cincinnati, Carey would sustain an inner ear concussion. After sustaining that injury, Carey did not play another professional hockey game.

[mmamolo 287]

Holland stated pretty forcefully last season that he is no longer in favour of tying up a lot of money on goalies. That was a pretty big change from what things were like with Hasek and Joseph, but that was before the cap came in. I love Howard but I can't see paying him more than $2-3M/year, especially with Larsson and McCollum in the wings.

That may be true. But if Howard continues on this path and turns into a legit playoff performer you don't just let a guy like that walk. You find a way to make it work. Franchise players, at any position, just just turn up.

Now, I'm not saying Howard is a franchise guy but I'm saying the way he's playing it's not entirely impossible that he develops into one. We've waited a long time for Detroit to produce a legit stud goaltender and we've waited a long tie for Howard to develop. If after two years in the NHL Howard looks like he's moving well along on the path to stardom and you can retain him you better believe Holland will do so.

[Motown4013 350]

Jimmy has already spent 5 years in Motown so I would assume he would take a bit less to play for a great organization and one that he has supporters in. Holland believed in him when most didn't and that won't be forgotten. I think that its more difficult on a goalie to go to a new team than it is any other player because of the pressure. I imagine he is proud of what he has accomplished here (and he should be) so I think he will be here for a while.

[Hockeytown_Ryan 119]

He will have a few guys telling him that he won't have it much better anywhere else....(they will be right) and he will stay ..If he plays Hockey well enough to keep interest. 2 toughest jobs in Detroit.... QB for the Lions and Goalie for the Wings! Go Jimmy GO!!!

[Rivalred 630]

Lets finish out the season and see how things are next also before the talks of money gets thrown around.

[Booster313 138]

I think the fact that we have Larsson and McCollum in the minors might keep Howard honest.

[Grim 5]

Holland stated pretty forcefully last season that he is no longer in favour of tying up a lot of money on goalies. That was a pretty big change from what things were like with Hasek and Joseph, but that was before the cap came in. I love Howard but I can't see paying him more than $2-3M/year, especially with Larsson and McCollum in the wings.

Last/this season was a completely different beast. If Howie struggled to win 20 games this season, which he looked like he might very early on... you can bet your bottom dollar that Kenny would invest in a Goalie. Especially with Osgood banished into Babcock's doghouse as he is.

If anything, its doubtful that Kenny would handcuff himself into another longterm deal with a forward. Its terribly ironic that many here are all ready to sell the farm for a Kovalchuk AND they are all dug-in ready to low-ball Howie...

[eva unit zero 271]

That may be true. But if Howard continues on this path and turns into a legit playoff performer you don't just let a guy like that walk. You find a way to make it work. Franchise players, at any position, just just turn up.

Now, I'm not saying Howard is a franchise guy but I'm saying the way he's playing it's not entirely impossible that he develops into one. We've waited a long time for Detroit to produce a legit stud goaltender and we've waited a long tie for Howard to develop. If after two years in the NHL Howard looks like he's moving well along on the path to stardom and you can retain him you better believe Holland will do so.

The Wings' most recent "legit stud goaltender" was drafted by the team and is currently on the roster. That's not waiting too terribly long, given that some franchises have never had a "legit stud goaltender" as you would put it.

[paulwoodsfan 52]

How many "stud goalies" have won the Cup in recent seasons? I don't consider any of the past five (Fleury, Osgood, Giguere, Ward, Khabibulin) to be superstar/irreplaceable types. Hockey is packed with good goalies, and I think Holland has determined that he would be better off spending $6M on a star defenceman or forward. You can get adequate to exceptional goaltending for reasonable money these days, and you don't need superstar goaltending to win the Cup.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

He will have a few guys telling him that he won't have it much better anywhere else....(they will be right) and he will stay ..If he plays Hockey well enough to keep interest. 2 toughest jobs in Detroit.... QB for the Lions and Goalie for the Wings! Go Jimmy GO!!!

And those few guys will be dead on.

Where else does the guy have multiple cup-winning veterans, the best coach in the world, and the best staffing in the world?

[StormJH1 231]

Lets finish out the season and see how things are next also before the talks of money gets thrown around.

Well, that's right of course. The Wings' attitude has always been to try and win now and worry about the consequences later. Really, the league is structured such that most teams with our draft position would've burned out a long time ago, except that we manage to hit on guys like the EuroTwins with absurdly low picks, plus create serviceable players out of reclaimation projects (Drew Miller, Cleary, Eaves, etc.), and do other "out-of-the-box" things (like drafting Ericsson as a forward and turning him into a Top 4 defenseman).

I would absolutely welcome the problem of having to give Howard a raise if he plays well enough in the Playoffs to warrant that question. At some point, the Wings will have to actually pay decent money for a goalie in the post-lockout era, which is something Pittsburgh, San Jose, and even Chicago (they're paying, we'll see if he's decent) already have to do. But playing for the Wings also devalues goaltenders because whenever the team has been successful, it's generally seemed like the goaltender benefited from the overall system.

[StormJH1 231]

Last/this season was a completely different beast. If Howie struggled to win 20 games this season, which he looked like he might very early on... you can bet your bottom dollar that Kenny would invest in a Goalie. Especially with Osgood banished into Babcock's doghouse as he is.

If anything, its doubtful that Kenny would handcuff himself into another longterm deal with a forward. Its terribly ironic that many here are all ready to sell the farm for a Kovalchuk AND they are all dug-in ready to low-ball Howie...

Yeah, I was gonna say! The Wings haven't spent big money on goaltending since the lockout, and any comparison to what we were doing in 1997 or 2002 is irrelevant. So for Holland to say that he "no longer" approves of dropping huge money on a goalie, I'm going to assume he's referring to his general philosophy in a salary cap world, which has proven successful from 2007-2009.

Also, I disagree that the Wings would've spent big money on a goaltender had Howard struggled out of the gate. The reason I say this is that the offense struggled mightily for the majority of this season, but we didn't go out and trade for a goal scorer b/c we were so strapped by the cap and would've been screwed when the injured players returned.

Another way of avoiding the cap (and we see this in baseball all the time) is to draft well and benefit from young players before the bill comes in for their full value. (See "Miguel Cabrera, 2003 Marlins" or "A. Niemi, 2009-10 Blackhawks" or "J. Howard, 2009-10 Red Wings").

[mmamolo 287]

The Wings' most recent "legit stud goaltender" was drafted by the team and is currently on the roster. That's not waiting too terribly long, given that some franchises have never had a "legit stud goaltender" as you would put it.

You missed the point of what I was saying in my previous post. My point was that Howard is hopefully turning into that legit stud goaltender and Holland wont be giving up on him. The Wings were patient in his development and are not seeing the benefits of that patience. As good as Osgood has been in the last two playoff runs and as good as he has been in various regular seasons etc he's never been looked upon as a premier NHL goaltender. If Howard continues on the path he's currently on he potentially could become a premier guy in this league. That obviously is hoping for a lot of things to go right but the point is he is on that path. All i was saying was that although Holland would overpay and shell out an absurd amount of money to make it happen, there is no way he gives up on him either. So maybe you should understand the post first before you try and knock it