144 replies to this topic

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros]

Did I not make myself clear when I explained why Hudler is a better option than Downie? A player who has been CONSISTENTLY getting better with 3rd line minutes (and 3rd line teammates) over a player who gets to line up with a 40+ goal scorer and a 90+ pt Hart/Pearson winner (and hasn't even matched the point totals of Hudler's 08-09 season yet)?

He's lazy on defense.He's inconsistent.He chokes under pressure situations.He wants to be the star of the team but he can't hack it when they put him on the 2nd line.He doesn't know what backchecking means and he has never finished a check in his life.Downie is a much better fit here.He plays with a lot more heart and he gives it all every single game.

[newfy]

Did I not make myself clear when I explained why Hudler is a better option than Downie? A player who has been CONSISTENTLY getting better with 3rd line minutes (and 3rd line teammates) over a player who gets to line up with a 40+ goal scorer and a 90+ pt Hart/Pearson winner (and hasn't even matched the point totals of Hudler's 08-09 season yet)?

Yeah and Downie hasnt gotten better consistently? He's in his second full NHL season and hes got as many goals as Hudler ever had with Detroit. Do you think you know how Hudler plays better then Babcock? Maybe theres a reason he gets third line minutes and he's always in the doghouse. It probably has something to do with how he's weak defensively due to his size and never finishes a hit. Not to mention he wouldnt take a discount like everyone else does here when he knew we were handcuffed by the cap so he peaced out to Russia. You know Downie would never fly to Russia because hes from Canada. He's also physical and can play, something Babcock loves. Hudler isn't getting any younger but he probably got alot softer (if thats possible) playing in the KHL. Downie would be much better then Hudler on this team anyday of the week.

I obviously have no idea if Tampa would actually part with Downie but we're discussing it as a possibility.

[Doc Holliday]

He's lazy on defense.

And Downie is what? A potential Selke candidate?

He's inconsistent.

And Downie isn't?

He chokes under pressure situations.

And Downie doesn't? How many pressure situations has the great Steve Downie been in? How many game winning Stanley Cup Final goals does Steve Downie have?

He wants to be the star of the team but he can't hack it when they put him on the 2nd line.

Unsubstantiated bologna.

He doesn't know what backchecking means and he has never finished a check in his life.Downie is a much better fit here.He plays with a lot more heart and he gives it all every single game.

So you think Hudler doesn't try out there, and that he doesn't have as much heart as Downie? Based on?



Yup, no heart. No drive. No willpower.


Newfy: One good season doesn't define consistent at all (not to mention the fact he is playing with STAMKOS AND ST. LOUIS). And no, Downie doesn't have as many goals as Hudler.

Edited by Doc Holliday, 04 April 2010 - 11:34 AM.

[Shaman464]

Yeah and Downie hasnt gotten better consistently? He's in his second full NHL season and hes got as many goals as Hudler ever had with Detroit. Do you think you know how Hudler plays better then Babcock? Maybe theres a reason he gets third line minutes and he's always in the doghouse. It probably has something to do with how he's weak defensively due to his size and never finishes a hit. Not to mention he wouldnt take a discount like everyone else does here when he knew we were handcuffed by the cap so he peaced out to Russia. You know Downie would never fly to Russia because hes from Canada. He's also physical and can play, something Babcock loves. Hudler isn't getting any younger but he probably got alot softer (if thats possible) playing in the KHL. Downie would be much better then Hudler on this team anyday of the week.

I obviously have no idea if Tampa would actually part with Downie but we're discussing it as a possibility.

Ok, here are some problems with your argument

1. Cost, Downie even as an RFA is in store for a big raise.

2. Production, A peewee kid is good for 20 goals on a line with Stakmos and St Louis, if we pick up Downie how can you know his production will be anywhere near the levels its at now if hes not playing with that level talent?

3. He didn't take a discount? His production was better than Flip's but he took less money, he could have probably gotten 3.2 million if you base his contract on flips the year before.

[dobbles]

pretty much all of downies points can be directly attributed to stamkos. as soon as he is off that line, he will tank faster than you can say jonathon cheechoo.

[newfy]

Ok, here are some problems with your argument

1. Cost, Downie even as an RFA is in store for a big raise.

2. Production, A peewee kid is good for 20 goals on a line with Stakmos and St Louis, if we pick up Downie how can you know his production will be anywhere near the levels its at now if hes not playing with that level talent?

3. He didn't take a discount? His production was better than Flip's but he took less money, he could have probably gotten 3.2 million if you base his contract on flips the year before.

And here are some problems with yours.

1. That big raise wouldn't be that huge and we have alot of money coming off the cap this year, its possible.

2. You guys keep saying he plays with Stamkos and St louis ALL the time. He doesn't, he plays 14 minutes a night, I'm pretty sure Stamkos and St louis play more then that. I used to be a Sarnia Sting Season ticket holder while Stamkos was there so I make a special point to watch Tampa games and no he doesn't always play with these guys. St. Louis bumps around alot on different lines and the 14 a night Downie plays shows he's not always playing with those guys.

3. He wouldn't take a discount so he took the wings to arbitration. The arbitrator didn't give him the money he wanted because he thought he should get more so he flew off to Russia.

4. Hudler got most of his points playing with talent like St louis and Stamkos. Hudler was a PP specialist playing on the PP with guys like Dats, Z and Franzen, youre bound to get points then.

5. Huds is small and soft. He's also slow. Downie is a big body, hits fights and has already put up as many goals as Hudler ever did and Downie is only in his second full season.

After watching the flyers run around constantly at our team today we could use a guy like Downie to run around at other teams, throw them off their game(see carcillo on homer) and still produce. Theres way to much undeserved love for Hudler on this board. Yes he would be good with Hossa's body and blah blah I've heard that enough. Fact of the matter is he doesn't have that body so if you could get a guy like Downie for him, why wouldn't you?

[vOrophin]

And here are some problems with yours.

1. That big raise wouldn't be that huge and we have alot of money coming off the cap this year, its possible.

2. You guys keep saying he plays with Stamkos and St louis ALL the time. He doesn't, he plays 14 minutes a night, I'm pretty sure Stamkos and St louis play more then that. I used to be a Sarnia Sting Season ticket holder while Stamkos was there so I make a special point to watch Tampa games and no he doesn't always play with these guys. St. Louis bumps around alot on different lines and the 14 a night Downie plays shows he's not always playing with those guys.

3. He wouldn't take a discount so he took the wings to arbitration. The arbitrator didn't give him the money he wanted because he thought he should get more so he flew off to Russia.

4. Hudler got most of his points playing with talent like St louis and Stamkos. Hudler was a PP specialist playing on the PP with guys like Dats, Z and Franzen, youre bound to get points then.

5. Huds is small and soft. He's also slow. Downie is a big body, hits fights and has already put up as many goals as Hudler ever did and Downie is only in his second full season.

After watching the flyers run around constantly at our team today we could use a guy like Downie to run around at other teams, throw them off their game(see carcillo on homer) and still produce. Theres way to much undeserved love for Hudler on this board. Yes he would be good with Hossa's body and blah blah I've heard that enough. Fact of the matter is he doesn't have that body so if you could get a guy like Downie for him, why wouldn't you?

Didn't Hudler go to arbitration because he thought he could get more money, but also because he didn't want to play anywhere in the NHL except for Detroit? I remember in the summer the whole thing reeked of a plot to keep Hudler under contract but have him play somewhere else at a high level because of salary cap concerns.

Also Hudler got less than half of his points on the PP.

Downie is also the league leader in minor penalties, and has 206 PIM on the year, and while I know this shows grit and all that, it is a liability at the same time.

[newfy]

Didn't Hudler go to arbitration because he thought he could get more money, but also because he didn't want to play anywhere in the NHL except for Detroit? I remember in the summer the whole thing reeked of a plot to keep Hudler under contract but have him play somewhere else at a high level because of salary cap concerns.

Also Hudler got less than half of his points on the PP.

Downie is also the league leader in minor penalties, and has 206 PIM on the year, and while I know this shows grit and all that, it is a liability at the same time.

What I got from it was that he was awarded money from the arbitrator that was fair but thought that he was worth more so he took off on the team when they coulda used his scoring.

Our team is the least penalized in the league(I'm pretty sure)and more times then not Downie is taking someone with him. Sure he's a little over the edge sometimes but Carcillo was over the edge all game today and never caused his team to be penalized. Why shouldn't we have someone like that knocking the opposition off their game? He's like a hybrid of prime Maltby(the agitator) and Mccarty(the fighter) but he has more offensive ability and is only going to get better as he gets older. Downie could become a consistent 30 goal scorer in this league easily as well as a physical force.

[Doc Holliday]

What I got from it was that he was awarded money from the arbitrator that was fair but thought that he was worth more so he took off on the team when they coulda used his scoring.

That would not have been the case if the team was healthy.

[newfy]

That would not have been the case if the team was healthy.

Still was teh case though. He skipped out because he wanted more money when in the end we really needed his scoring badly.

[Doc Holliday]

Still was teh case though. He skipped out because he wanted more money when in the end we really needed his scoring badly.

Once again, if the team was healthy they wouldn't have needed it. Franzen, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Lidstrom, Rafalski, Filpulla, and Kronwall should be plenty of offense for a team to be competitive. Hudler is not to blame for half the team being injured this season.

[newfy]

Once again, if the team was healthy they wouldn't have needed it. Franzen, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Lidstrom, Rafalski, Filpulla, and Kronwall should be plenty of offense for a team to be competitive. Hudler is not to blame for half the team being injured this season.

Yeah but in the end we were injured half the season. If he woulda taken the offer from Kenny we would've had scoring depth for when they all got injured. Instead h e didn't take it and handcuffed Kenny so that we ended up with Jason Williams as our scoring depth. Thank Hudler for that.

[vOrophin]

Haven't the Wings been scoring at like a 3.3 G/G rate since all of the injured guys have come back (Franzen most importantly)? That would be 2nd in the NHL, even if they weren't quite at that rate all season, it would probably be good enough without Hudler.

[Hossa4Life]

Once again, if the team was healthy they wouldn't have needed it. Franzen, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Lidstrom, Rafalski, Filpulla, and Kronwall should be plenty of offense for a team to be competitive. Hudler is not to blame for half the team being injured this season.

The amount of goals that we were losing from Hossa, sammy, kopecky, and hudler were a large drop off though. But if we had huddler we might not have found eaves and millers skills. I love these two guys and they seem like they could help a ton in grinding playoff conditions.

[Doc Holliday]

Yeah but in the end we were injured half the season. If he woulda taken the offer from Kenny we would've had scoring depth for when they all got injured. Instead h e didn't take it and handcuffed Kenny so that we ended up with Jason Williams as our scoring depth. Thank Hudler for that.

Can we thank Samuelsson and Hossa for not taking lower salaries to play for the Wings? Are players always at fault when the teams they recently played for cannot pay them the money they believe they deserve?

Edited by Doc Holliday, 04 April 2010 - 09:06 PM.

[newfy]

Can we thank Samuelsson and Hossa for not taking lower salaries to play for the Wings? Are players always at fault when the teams they recently played for cannot pay them the money they believe they deserve?

Hossa was a rental and most knew that so no I wouldn't blame him really. Samuelson didn't take us to arbitration and handcuff us from signing a legit scorer but Hudler who we drafted and became the player he is in our system took us to arbitration and left on bad terms while he was an RFA. SO he is more to blame then the other 2.

[Hossa4Life]

Can we thank Samuelsson and Hossa for not taking lower salaries to play for the Wings? Are players always at fault when the teams they recently played for cannot pay them the money they believe they deserve?

From what i read about Hossa, he was not even offered 4 million. You can't expect someone of his caliber to accept that kind of deal.

But a trade for him might get him back in a winged wheel.

Edited by Hossa4Life, 04 April 2010 - 09:13 PM.

[Doc Holliday]

Hossa was a rental and most knew that so no I wouldn't blame him really. Samuelson didn't take us to arbitration and handcuff us from signing a legit scorer but Hudler who we drafted and became the player he is in our system took us to arbitration and left on bad terms while he was an RFA. SO he is more to blame then the other 2.

And I suppose Hudler being Wings' property when he comes back has no bearing on your opinion of the arbitration then.

[newfy]

And I suppose Hudler being Wings' property when he comes back has no bearing on your opinion of the arbitration then.

Him coming back as wings property doesn't have any bearing at all because being wings property he should've played for their team. He was an RFA so yes he is wings property just like every other RFA on their teams. Difference is that most of them don't fly to Russia because they want more money.

[eva unit zero]

Still was teh case though. He skipped out because he wanted more money when in the end we really needed his scoring badly.

Hmm. I can't help but notice how you are arguing that we SHOULDN'T bring Hudler back because he won't help the team, using the fact that his absence this season noticeably hurt the Wings as a reason to keep Hudler out.

You are possibly the most logic-deprived member of this forum.