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wmubronco420

Does this year prove that hockey doesnt belong in phoenix?

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So we all know the ordeal with what happened to the coyotes, with being bankrupt and not making the playoffs since 2002. Bettman fought hard to be able to keep this "experiment" going w/ hockey in the desert.

So far this year the Coyotes are 4th in the west and have the 2nd best point total in the conferance. Yet, they are still lowest in attendance among NHL teams. If a season like this doesnt do anything to spur interest, then what will?

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are there any legitimate sites for attendance?

espn isn't exactly the most reliable site for nhl info

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Wait until the playoffs. If they cannot sell out playoff games I say they don't belong.

I give them benefit of the doubt until then.

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I disagree.

At the end of the summer people weren't even sure whether the Coyotes would be playing in Phoenix. Shockingly, they struggled to get businesses to buy into the team. :P Season ticket holder numbers plummeted along with any certainty that the team would be there.

Sustained success will lead to attendance. Fans want to watch successful teams play. Only the most established teams can afford to blow and still make money.

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I don't think there exists a spot where hockey doesn't belong. The trouble is catering the game to folks who are largely ignorant of the sport, which is something the NHL has struggled with in some markets. As for whether Phoenix should have a hockey team based on their attendance records- I think Drake Marcus is right. People want successful teams. I remember versing the Coyotes in 98 in the playoffs and their arena was completely sold out and the crowd was all one color.

Edited by Echolalia

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If they don't sell out during the playoffs then it's just flat out embarrassing. Most crappy markets can develop a decent bandwagon fanbase during the playoffs. If they can't even do that then they don't deserve a team.

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See: '98 Wings road to the cup

I remember their arena was packed during that series and the fans were crazy. Of course, those were the days Tkachuk and Roenick were a force together and Khabibulin made a name for himself.

Anybody remember in that series when Fedorov shot the puck (to dump it in) and it hit perfectly off the back boards to Khabibulin's skate and in the net? It was insanely good luck.

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Aren't rumors going around that they'll be moved to Winnipeg as soon as next season?

I think it's pretty clear hockey doesn't belong in Phoenix. Who could have predicted that, it seemed like such a great fit.

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Aren't rumors going around that they'll be moved to Winnipeg as soon as next season?

I think it's pretty clear hockey doesn't belong in Phoenix. Who could have predicted that, it seemed like such a great fit.

Just another 1 of many poor decisions made by the NHL...No wonder the league is looked upon as a joke by it's rivals.

Move the "Yotes" back to Winnipeg, and the Thrashers to Hamilton as all will be well.

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yeah...and not to mention their last home game vs the avs they had over 17,000...so...look for it to increase come playoff time

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Aren't rumors going around that they'll be moved to Winnipeg as soon as next season?

I think it's pretty clear hockey doesn't belong in Phoenix. Who could have predicted that, it seemed like such a great fit.

Yea that's what I've been hearing. The FAN590 in Toronto says owner of the arena in Winnipeg has been talking with the NHL about purchasing Phoenix and moving them back. Apparently the NHL lost $20 Million this season taking over the 'yotes!

Move the "Yotes" back to Winnipeg, and the Thrashers to Hamilton as all will be well.

Yea Hamilton or North Toronto, and also Florida can move to Quebec.

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yes...phoenix is just like my area...albuquerque. there is such a diverse mix of ethnic backgrounds here that no pro sport can survive. hell, the college games just barely work, and the minor league baseball is always open seating.

phoenix is the same as here, but hotter and more retirees.

send them back to Winnipeg so they can have the proper fan base and

move the thrashers to Vegas!

yeah! imagine that!

the games will definitely sell out!

of course...the locals will go but the real revenue stream comes from the tourists.

the downfall is the pro athletes gambling,fornicating, and general troubles,while in Vegas. :scared:

then the media hype over the screwball antics will ensue...this will then entail more advertising. :ranting:

yeah!...ESPN here we come. :lol:

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absence makes the heart grow fonder huh, winnipeg?

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ya, well, just look at the Lightning. In 2004, they only sold out during the finals and even after they won the Cup that year, the following season attendance was back to the normal non sellouts. Hockey doesn't belong in Phoenix or Florida. It barely belongs in Texas or Southern California!

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ya, well, just look at the Lightning. In 2004, they only sold out during the finals and even after they won the Cup that year, the following season attendance was back to the normal non sellouts. Hockey doesn't belong in Phoenix or Florida. It barely belongs in Texas or Southern California!

actuallthe season after they won the cup (2006 since 2005 was the lockout) they led the league in attendance. then went right back down the following year. So i think the only hope for PHO would be to win the cup.

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I was in Phoenix right at the beginning of January for other purposes but lucked out when the Wings were playing there on Jan. 2nd and I was there from Jan 1st - 4th or 5th, so I went.

I believe they sold out completely that game. Part possibly due to the Red WIngs being a popular name in general, and you'd hope there'd be a decent factor of Phoenix being good contributing to the high attendance as well (I believe they were either 3rd or 4th in the conference at the time).

The atmosphere was good, I enjoyed it.

The arena is right across the street from where the Arizona Cardinals play, in Glendale, probably at least a 30 minute drive from the downtown area. The area itself is a nice suburb of Phoenix, but toher than the stadium/arena and some immediate restaurants/shops, there really isn't much in the immediate area. One might wander if they'd do a bit better with attendance in downtown Phoenix (where the Suns and Diamondbacks play), which is only probably a 10-15 drive from the airport, if that.

Pretty much everybody likes a winner, it doesn't matter where they are located. If they can consistently become a competitive team and make the playoffs with some consistency, it'll probably rise to a degree. While I'm not familiar with attendance figures, I would guess that Nashville is a good example. They've become a respectable club over the past few seasons in terms of results and have made the playoffs off/on recently, I would think attendance is pretty decent there. Winning definitely isn't the only factor, but it helps obviously.

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Wait until the playoffs. If they cannot sell out playoff games I say they don't belong.

I give them benefit of the doubt until then.

I agree. The good first half of the year they didn't even know if the team was going to stay or not. Let's see what happens in the playoffs.

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Wait until the playoffs. If they cannot sell out playoff games I say they don't belong.

I give them benefit of the doubt until then.

If the Wings are their match up in the first round its going to throw that whole theory off. DRW transplants are the only ones that attend Pheonix-Detroit games as it is.

I think that its great what the team is doing, but they are playing to empty seat every night so what is the point? Vacate Arizona and vacate Florida, waste of hockey on people who aren't drinking the Koolaid and the competitiveness of the teams are lacking because of it. We are literally burying franchises in the states.

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Sustained success will lead to attendance. Fans want to watch successful teams play. Only the most established teams can afford to blow and still make money.

I'm not too sure about that. Look at the Devils. They still can't sellout playoff games.

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yeah...and not to mention their last home game vs the avs they had over 17,000...so...look for it to increase come playoff time

The Coyotes have essentially given away the entire arena's tickets for various games this season in order to put up 'sellouts' - even though even with a packed house the event is still probably rung up as a financial loss. Anyone know if the game in question was such a game?

Makes you wonder, if the overall average attendance is 11000-12000 a game, how bad does it get when lower-bowl tickets DON'T cost 20 bucks?

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I wouldn't mind if they moved to Winnipeg.

Attendance or not, Phoenix is not as good a place for hockey as Winnipeg. Also, they could go back to being the Jets instead of the Coyotes, which has never looked as good jersey or logo wise.

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You can't judge Phoenix on this year's attendance. The fans didn't know they would have a team until a couple weeks before the season started. I remember when the Winnipeg Jets moved to Phoenix. Winnipeg was getting less attendance than Phoenix is now. That coupled with the weak Canadian dollar and that team was doomed. The Canadian media is utilizing revisionist history when they say Winnipeg should have never moved.

The attendance at Coyotes games when the team was downtown instead of the suburbs was much stronger as well, despite the arena improvement. The Phoenix metro area is SIX TIMES larger than Winnipeg, and anyone that can do math can figure out that a professional team has a better chance long term in a city of 4,300,000 than a city of 700,000, I don't care how hockey crazed Winnipeg suddenly is. I would generalize by saying that hockey has not been a failure in the South, as Dallas, San Jose, Los Angeles, and Anaheim have been strong franchises. Hockey in the Southeast HAS generally been a failure, they are so football crazed and closed minded. And it isn't just hockey, basketball teams in Charlotte, Memphis and Atlanta don't draw well either. Atlanta, Nashville and Carolina should all move to Seattle, Milwaukee, and Quebec City respectively. And the Islanders need to go too. I know its a big market, but New York does not need three teams and the Islanders haven't been relevant in twenty years. Defending Gary Bettman isn't a popular opinion usually, but the Penguins and Sabres have been in dire straights in the past ten years, and look where they are now. Bettman didn't want them moving, and the league is better for it. Perhaps Phoenix is the next turn around story.

New Olympia Stadium

Wings_Fan_In_Exile likes this

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I'm not too sure about that. Look at the Devils. They still can't sellout playoff games.

That also has a bit to do with location and style of play imo.

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You can't judge Phoenix on this year's attendance. The fans didn't know they would have a team until a couple weeks before the season started. I remember when the Winnipeg Jets moved to Phoenix. Winnipeg was getting less attendance than Phoenix is now. That coupled with the weak Canadian dollar and that team was doomed. The Canadian media is utilizing revisionist history when they say Winnipeg should have never moved.

The attendance at Coyotes games when the team was downtown instead of the suburbs was much stronger as well, despite the arena improvement. The Phoenix metro area is SIX TIMES larger than Winnipeg, and anyone that can do math can figure out that a professional team has a better chance long term in a city of 4,300,000 than a city of 700,000, I don't care how hockey crazed Winnipeg suddenly is. I would generalize by saying that hockey has not been a failure in the South, as Dallas, San Jose, Los Angeles, and Anaheim have been strong franchises. Hockey in the Southeast HAS generally been a failure, they are so football crazed and closed minded. And it isn't just hockey, basketball teams in Charlotte, Memphis and Atlanta don't draw well either. Atlanta, Nashville and Carolina should all move to Seattle, Milwaukee, and Quebec City respectively. And the Islanders need to go too. I know its a big market, but New York does not need three teams and the Islanders haven't been relevant in twenty years. Defending Gary Bettman isn't a popular opinion usually, but the Penguins and Sabres have been in dire straights in the past ten years, and look where they are now. Bettman didn't want them moving, and the league is better for it. Perhaps Phoenix is the next turn around story.

New Olympia Stadium

very well said

couldnt agree more

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The Phoenix metro area is SIX TIMES larger than Winnipeg, and anyone that can do math can figure out that a professional team has a better chance long term in a city of 4,300,000 than a city of 700,000, I don't care how hockey crazed Winnipeg suddenly is.

So? The Phoenix metro area is larger than most existing Canadian markets and a number of American ones, does that mean that the Flames or the Sabres should be getting the axe? If it was just about raw population why not put teams in Europe? London has about seven million people to Phoenix's four, does that mean that London is a more viable market? After all, in your mind whether or not a given population is hockey-crazed or not is completely irrelevant.

Plus, a potential team in Winnipeg would almost certainly receive ownership support at least in part from David Thomson, the richest man in Canada. He owns the media group responsible for TSN *and* the arena a potential NHL team in Winnipeg would play - he would directly make money that would go towards the NHL not only from every Winnipeg game but also from every TSN broadcast and every event at the MTS Centre NHL-related or not. For all those people in Phoenix, they sure aren't climbing over themselves offering to take ownership of it there, let alone anybody with anything even close to the financial clout of someone like Thomson.

Edited by Kabrok

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