Does this year prove that hockey doesnt belong in phoenix?

[ogreslayer 1,069]

As much as I remain unconvinced that Phoenix will be a sustainable market, I think they should at least get more than one season of icing a decent team so the fans have time to catch on. If after a few good seasons no one is showing up, then it'll really show just how unlikely it is to ever catch on there.

And I'm not super familiar with the Phoenix area, but playing in Glendale probably isn't helping. It says it's only 9 miles from downtown, but feels a lot further. And there's only the 101 to get there. My memory of it is it's not really a fun area to hang out.

this ^^^

I work with a number of people who are very familiar with the Phoenix area or are there currently. From what they say, the hike to Glendale can be absolute murder, especially if you live on the other side of the city. The move & general lack of other things to do in the Glendale area has done a lot to kill off interest in going to games in that market.

[RedArmy 4]

I'm not too sure about that. Look at the Devils. They still can't sellout playoff games.

yea I don' tknow about that... since they moved to Newark they have had better attendance... their old stadium was awful...

[Wings_Fan_In_Exile 3]

I don't buy the "it's too far away, and there's nothing to do in Glendale" excuse pertaining to the attendance woes...Right next door is the home of the Cardinals; are they having attendance issues as well?

I grew up in AZ and can attest that it is a bit of a beyotch to get to Glendale on a weekday. And it really is pretty much just suburbia out there too, other than the two pro teams, all I can think of is a mall... (been a few years)

I'd argue three reasons the Cardinals have had less issues with attendance:

1: Recent success (a minute or two away from being champs) vs missing the playoffs for 8 years)

2: They only play 8 home games vs 41 (most if not all on on Sundays vs fighting rush hour on a Tuesday night)

3: Football vs hockey - just about anywhere in the US, football is gonna "win" -sad but true for most of the country I'd guess

They've been down there since the 1996-1997 season so it's not as though this is something new here...My brother who lives in Scottsdale says that people just don't care about the team, and the "incentives" needed to draw in crowds is pretty sad...IMHO the Coyotes need to be relocated.

While I won't argue that a lot of people don't care about the team as your brother mentioned there are a few reasons... As mentioned previously, put out a garbage product for a decade and see what happens. Buffalo and Pittsburgh were both in danger of moving away too...

What I've noticed with sports fans in general is that there is a HUGE chunk of casual sports fans always ready to jump on the next bandwagon. And I bet this is especially true in "melting pots" like Phoenix where just about somebody is from somehwere else. I'd be curious to compare attendance of the semi-successful 90's Coyotes attnedance vs the last few years of the Gretzky Era disaster.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

Just another 1 of many poor decisions made by the NHL...No wonder the league is looked upon as a joke by it's rivals.

Move the "Yotes" back to Winnipeg, and the Thrashers to Hamilton as all will be well.

Makes sense.i really wanna see this done before next season.No matter how bad the team plays,there will always be hardcore fans in a Canadian market that will support the team and sellout.

See:Toronto Maple Leafs

[TheWestWing 71]

OK let's put summin to bed here - I'm generlizing that 'some' of you live N of 8 Mile (again, I'm generalizing). What's it take to get down to Jerry Lewis - 30 to 40 minutes? I'm in Scottsdale (nice place they say) bout 25-30 miles away and I can get to Jobber in about 35 minutes. Its located on the 101 Loop which is about a 45 mile or so loop (natch) that half-circles PHX proper. It's not downtown but it's not that hard to get in and out of. Much easier for a hockey game than 70K+ for football right next door (and they had that many for rasslin there the other night - go fig).

So the 'it's too far' is just poo - somewhere is always too far for somebody.

[edicius 3,269]

yea I don' tknow about that... since they moved to Newark they have had better attendance... their old stadium was awful...

I won't argue with that. Continental was a hole. The Rock is phenomenal, though. I've only been to one game there, but I'm very tempted to check out some playoff action this year, especially if the Devils go up against the Penguins.

[miller76 463]

The Coyotes have essentially given away the entire arena's tickets for various games this season in order to put up 'sellouts' - even though even with a packed house the event is still probably rung up as a financial loss. Anyone know if the game in question was such a game?

Makes you wonder, if the overall average attendance is 11000-12000 a game, how bad does it get when lower-bowl tickets DON'T cost 20 bucks?

This is complete non-sense. Every team including the Red Wings have had ticket deals and giveaways all season. My friend, who happens to be a sales associate for season tickets for the Coyotes, said there are more deals than ever, but they are still making money due to the improved product on the ice.

And to just let you know, that the March 27th home game against Colorado was a sell out, not too mention 1700 walk ups, at the arena. All were turned down.

[adubs 8]

Phoenix has around 4 million people. I just don't believe that it will never be able to have a financially successful hockey team. When a team doesn't when they don't attract fans. Calgary was pretty close to moving eight or nine years ago but were saved by Iginla's 52 goals and the cup run a couple years after.

[evilmrt 636]

I'm gonna have to agree with the "winners prosper" sentiment. This is the 5th largest city in the nation, yet is is a non-traditional hockey market. It requires a winning team to gain attention, and its been EIGHT long years since a playoff berth. With Gretzky finally gone, and Tippet running the show...I think things are finally looking good for the Yotes. If they make a decent run this playoffs, and look good next year as well (I don't know why not), they have a good chance of turning things around financially.

I'm sorry, but if the NHL can't succeed in the 5th largest city in the US, they're doing it wrong.

[eva unit zero 271]

I'll remind everyone that Winnipeg was consistently among the worst teams in attendance in the NHL, causing them to be severely in the red, and that is the primary reason the team moved.

Winnipeg also *gasp* tended to perform poorly, winning exactly two playoff rounds and making the playoffs in eleven of seventeen seasons. The team never won the regular season crown in their division, and only finished higher than fourth six times.

By comparison, Phoenix made the playoffs their first four seasons and five of their first six, but has missed every year in the six seasons since. The Coyotes have finished higher than fourth in their division four times.

So comparing the two, they have had fairly similar success. Especially, if you take the years from 93-94 on and use the 'top-four' playoff system, the Jets only make the playoffs ten times in seventeen seasons, while the Coyotes make the playoffs nine of twelve.

People are so intent on bashing the Coyotes and saying they should be moved because they're in the south, yet they have had as much success as the Jets ever did.

[RedArmy 4]

I won't argue with that. Continental was a hole. The Rock is phenomenal, though. I've only been to one game there, but I'm very tempted to check out some playoff action this year, especially if the Devils go up against the Penguins.

yea the Rock is pretty awesome, probably the best arean in NYC area for sure... If devils go up Caps, would be kind of cool to go see that too...

[RedLightGoesOn 81]

They had fantastic attendance when it was thought they would leave. They sold a s***load of season tickets. Moyes really tanked the team and the market in Phoenix. I do know there are a lot of "out of towners" that live in Phoenix, but they can root for the Yotes when their team doesn't play them. I root for the Yotes when they don't play for the Wings, and I would go to games if I had the money to. Hopefully after this post season's performance and with new owners, they can come up with a better marketing plan. Affordable tickets, student discounts (I wish), nice package deal, etc. They also are located in a s***ty area (Glendale is not the best place for them). Also, not every game is televised on FSN Arizona... this needs to change next season.

Don't blame the people for not giving a s*** about hockey when the franchise has not been run correctly for years.... Despite what naysayers may say, hockey is popular in Phoenix.

[lfd250 1]

I'm guessing that Phx had a VERY good chance of winning it all this year. Given who owns them and needs them to win.

TO DO List:

1. Crosby wins cup CHECK

2. Phoenix wins cup

3. Run that Holmstom out of the NHL with ghost calls.

4. Make the people hate me CHECK

[GONGSHOW HOCKEY 35]

Phoenix is selling out games and they still can't turn a profit on a per game basis. Hockey doesn't belong in the desert. It will be interesting to see if Phoenix moves back to their rightful home in Winnipeg, Bettman will have to admit that his experiment was wrong to do so. He's ego is too big to do that imo

[zettie85 106]

They had fantastic attendance when it was thought they would leave. They sold a s***load of season tickets. Moyes really tanked the team and the market in Phoenix. I do know there are a lot of "out of towners" that live in Phoenix, but they can root for the Yotes when their team doesn't play them. I root for the Yotes when they don't play for the Wings, and I would go to games if I had the money to. Hopefully after this post season's performance and with new owners, they can come up with a better marketing plan. Affordable tickets, student discounts (I wish), nice package deal, etc. They also are located in a s***ty area (Glendale is not the best place for them). Also, not every game is televised on FSN Arizona... this needs to change next season.

Don't blame the people for not giving a s*** about hockey when the franchise has not been run correctly for years.... Despite what naysayers may say, hockey is popular in Phoenix.

Hockey is popular when there is history and wait list for season tickets. Not when it's a novelty.

[miller76 463]

This team was barely a mediocre team at best in Winnipeg. Never winning anything and placing low in the standings year after year. Never getting far in the playoffs, and no television or corporate support there. The only thing that brought a hockey team to the desert was television revenues and corporate support. There was no other viable location ready to have a turn key hockey organization, and play when they arrived.

[zettie85 106]

I'll remind everyone that Winnipeg was consistently among the worst teams in attendance in the NHL, causing them to be severely in the red, and that is the primary reason the team moved.

Winnipeg also *gasp* tended to perform poorly, winning exactly two playoff rounds and making the playoffs in eleven of seventeen seasons. The team never won the regular season crown in their division, and only finished higher than fourth six times.

By comparison, Phoenix made the playoffs their first four seasons and five of their first six, but has missed every year in the six seasons since. The Coyotes have finished higher than fourth in their division four times.

So comparing the two, they have had fairly similar success. Especially, if you take the years from 93-94 on and use the 'top-four' playoff system, the Jets only make the playoffs ten times in seventeen seasons, while the Coyotes make the playoffs nine of twelve.

People are so intent on bashing the Coyotes and saying they should be moved because they're in the south, yet they have had as much success as the Jets ever did.

You do realize that the team that made it 9 of 12 years was built in Winnipeg? They may have played in Phoenix but that core was put together in Winnipeg so that's not a great argument. If they would have stayed in Winnipeg you could have added those nine playoff appearances to their record. Anyways Winnipeg has to add maybe 2000 seats to a brand new building and they have a possible corporate sponsor deal now if they were to make it back to Winnipeg.

Edited April 4, 2010 by zettie85

[GONGSHOW HOCKEY 35]

You do realize that the team that made it 9 of 12 years was built in Winnipeg? They may have played in Phoenix but that core was put together in Winnipeg so that's not a great argument. If they would have stayed in Winnipeg you could have added those nine playoff appearances to their record. Anyways Winnipeg has to add maybe 2000 seats to a brand new building and they have a possible corporate sponsor deal now if they were to make it back to Winnipeg.

the thompson's are on of the richest families in the world. money won't be a problem if there in winnipeg.... how much has the NHL lost this year in Phoenix??... I've heard ~20 million.

[zettie85 106]

the thompson's are on of the richest families in the world. money won't be a problem if there in winnipeg.... how much has the NHL lost this year in Phoenix??... I've heard ~20 million.

At least I would imagine.

[miller76 463]

You do realize that the team that made it 9 of 12 years was built in Winnipeg? They may have played in Phoenix but that core was put together in Winnipeg so that's not a great argument. If they would have stayed in Winnipeg you could have added those nine playoff appearances to their record. Anyways Winnipeg has to add maybe 2000 seats to a brand new building and they have a possible corporate sponsor deal now if they were to make it back to Winnipeg.

That may all be true and you do carry a valid argument. The corporate sponsorship is huge, but television revenues are where it's at. American television creates a gross amount of money compared to any television market in Canada. And being that Phoenix is turning into this metropolis of a city, Winnipeg can hardly compete on that end.

[zettie85 106]

That may all be true and you do carry a valid argument. The corporate sponsorship is huge, but television revenues are where it's at. American television creates a gross amount of money compared to any television market in Canada. And being that Phoenix is turning into this metropolis of a city, Winnipeg can hardly compete on that end.

Canada can never compete with TV money deals but they can blow most markets out of the water in viewers. I imagine if they moved back Roger's SPortsnet would pick up the teams regional games and they would get CBC deals and TSN deals. The amount of people watching those alone would blow Phoenix out of the water. Then again a TV deal in Phoenix may bring in more money than those 3 all together.

[miller76 463]

Canada can never compete with TV money deals but they can blow most markets out of the water in viewers. I imagine if they moved back Roger's SPortsnet would pick up the teams regional games and they would get CBC deals and TSN deals. The amount of people watching those alone would blow Phoenix out of the water. Then again a TV deal in Phoenix may bring in more money than those 3 all together.

That's kind of what I am saying. Putting it all on tsn and so in Canada with everyone in the country watching still somehow comes up short in revenue dollars when comparing the two countries.

But what I don't understand, is I know these are proud Canadians wanting a hockey team back in the country. And out of all the possibilities, Winnipeg is probably the best choice if Hamilton wasn't to come to fruition. But people are thinking that moving a team to Winnipeg isn't going to cost millions. Millions are still going to be lost there, for years to come. And why does an intelligent business man, family, or company, full knowingly accept that as a good deal to have a dream of a hockey team there?

[zettie85 106]

That's kind of what I am saying. Putting it all on tsn and so in Canada with everyone in the country watching still somehow comes up short in revenue dollars when comparing the two countries.

But what I don't understand, is I know these are proud Canadians wanting a hockey team back in the country. And out of all the possibilities, Winnipeg is probably the best choice if Hamilton wasn't to come to fruition. But people are thinking that moving a team to Winnipeg isn't going to cost millions. Millions are still going to be lost there, for years to come. And why does an intelligent business man, family, or company, full knowingly accept that as a good deal to have a dream of a hockey team there?

Why do you expect them to continue to lose millions though? The TV deals may not be as much but with the corporate sponsorship and the fact that Winnipeg has barely been effected by the economic downturn they are sure to sell out. If they become the Jet's again their merchandise sales will be through the roof. I would buy a Jet's jersey in a second if they came back.

[Guest ToMaToToWnWinGsFaN_24]

well for those who live in canada or get CBC...you can watch the Coyotes take on the Oilers tonight at 10pm est.

Why do you expect them to continue to lose millions though? The TV deals may not be as much but with the corporate sponsorship and the fact that Winnipeg has barely been effected by the economic downturn they are sure to sell out. If they become the Jet's again their merchandise sales will be through the roof. I would buy a Jet's jersey in a second if they came back.

i boughtt one a couple years ago in toronto. was a neat store that sold classic jerseys/uniforms from all teams in the four major sports (NBA, MLB, NFL, NHL). still have it today !

[zettie85 106]

I will say this though. Bettman probably wants to find a buyer for Phoenix and the get an expansion team in Winnipeg/Hamilton or wherever. The NHL would stand to make a s*** load of money if they did it that way.