89 replies to this topic

[adubs]

Phoenix has around 4 million people. I just don't believe that it will never be able to have a financially successful hockey team. When a team doesn't when they don't attract fans. Calgary was pretty close to moving eight or nine years ago but were saved by Iginla's 52 goals and the cup run a couple years after.

[evilmrt]

I'm gonna have to agree with the "winners prosper" sentiment. This is the 5th largest city in the nation, yet is is a non-traditional hockey market. It requires a winning team to gain attention, and its been EIGHT long years since a playoff berth. With Gretzky finally gone, and Tippet running the show...I think things are finally looking good for the Yotes. If they make a decent run this playoffs, and look good next year as well (I don't know why not), they have a good chance of turning things around financially.

I'm sorry, but if the NHL can't succeed in the 5th largest city in the US, they're doing it wrong.

[eva unit zero]

I'll remind everyone that Winnipeg was consistently among the worst teams in attendance in the NHL, causing them to be severely in the red, and that is the primary reason the team moved.

Winnipeg also *gasp* tended to perform poorly, winning exactly two playoff rounds and making the playoffs in eleven of seventeen seasons. The team never won the regular season crown in their division, and only finished higher than fourth six times.

By comparison, Phoenix made the playoffs their first four seasons and five of their first six, but has missed every year in the six seasons since. The Coyotes have finished higher than fourth in their division four times.

So comparing the two, they have had fairly similar success. Especially, if you take the years from 93-94 on and use the 'top-four' playoff system, the Jets only make the playoffs ten times in seventeen seasons, while the Coyotes make the playoffs nine of twelve.

People are so intent on bashing the Coyotes and saying they should be moved because they're in the south, yet they have had as much success as the Jets ever did.

[RedArmy]

I won't argue with that. Continental was a hole. The Rock is phenomenal, though. I've only been to one game there, but I'm very tempted to check out some playoff action this year, especially if the Devils go up against the Penguins.

yea the Rock is pretty awesome, probably the best arean in NYC area for sure... If devils go up Caps, would be kind of cool to go see that too...

[RedLightGoesOn]

They had fantastic attendance when it was thought they would leave. They sold a s***load of season tickets. Moyes really tanked the team and the market in Phoenix. I do know there are a lot of "out of towners" that live in Phoenix, but they can root for the Yotes when their team doesn't play them. I root for the Yotes when they don't play for the Wings, and I would go to games if I had the money to. Hopefully after this post season's performance and with new owners, they can come up with a better marketing plan. Affordable tickets, student discounts (I wish), nice package deal, etc. They also are located in a s***ty area (Glendale is not the best place for them). Also, not every game is televised on FSN Arizona... this needs to change next season.

Don't blame the people for not giving a s*** about hockey when the franchise has not been run correctly for years.... Despite what naysayers may say, hockey is popular in Phoenix.

[lfd250]

I'm guessing that Phx had a VERY good chance of winning it all this year. Given who owns them and needs them to win.

TO DO List:

1. Crosby wins cup CHECK

2. Phoenix wins cup

3. Run that Holmstom out of the NHL with ghost calls.

4. Make the people hate me CHECK

[GONGSHOW HOCKEY]

Phoenix is selling out games and they still can't turn a profit on a per game basis. Hockey doesn't belong in the desert. It will be interesting to see if Phoenix moves back to their rightful home in Winnipeg, Bettman will have to admit that his experiment was wrong to do so. He's ego is too big to do that imo

[zettie85]

They had fantastic attendance when it was thought they would leave. They sold a s***load of season tickets. Moyes really tanked the team and the market in Phoenix. I do know there are a lot of "out of towners" that live in Phoenix, but they can root for the Yotes when their team doesn't play them. I root for the Yotes when they don't play for the Wings, and I would go to games if I had the money to. Hopefully after this post season's performance and with new owners, they can come up with a better marketing plan. Affordable tickets, student discounts (I wish), nice package deal, etc. They also are located in a s***ty area (Glendale is not the best place for them). Also, not every game is televised on FSN Arizona... this needs to change next season.

Don't blame the people for not giving a s*** about hockey when the franchise has not been run correctly for years.... Despite what naysayers may say, hockey is popular in Phoenix.

Hockey is popular when there is history and wait list for season tickets. Not when it's a novelty.

[miller76]

This team was barely a mediocre team at best in Winnipeg. Never winning anything and placing low in the standings year after year. Never getting far in the playoffs, and no television or corporate support there. The only thing that brought a hockey team to the desert was television revenues and corporate support. There was no other viable location ready to have a turn key hockey organization, and play when they arrived.

[zettie85]

I'll remind everyone that Winnipeg was consistently among the worst teams in attendance in the NHL, causing them to be severely in the red, and that is the primary reason the team moved.

Winnipeg also *gasp* tended to perform poorly, winning exactly two playoff rounds and making the playoffs in eleven of seventeen seasons. The team never won the regular season crown in their division, and only finished higher than fourth six times.

By comparison, Phoenix made the playoffs their first four seasons and five of their first six, but has missed every year in the six seasons since. The Coyotes have finished higher than fourth in their division four times.

So comparing the two, they have had fairly similar success. Especially, if you take the years from 93-94 on and use the 'top-four' playoff system, the Jets only make the playoffs ten times in seventeen seasons, while the Coyotes make the playoffs nine of twelve.

People are so intent on bashing the Coyotes and saying they should be moved because they're in the south, yet they have had as much success as the Jets ever did.

You do realize that the team that made it 9 of 12 years was built in Winnipeg? They may have played in Phoenix but that core was put together in Winnipeg so that's not a great argument. If they would have stayed in Winnipeg you could have added those nine playoff appearances to their record. Anyways Winnipeg has to add maybe 2000 seats to a brand new building and they have a possible corporate sponsor deal now if they were to make it back to Winnipeg.

Edited by zettie85, 03 April 2010 - 07:43 PM.

[GONGSHOW HOCKEY]

You do realize that the team that made it 9 of 12 years was built in Winnipeg? They may have played in Phoenix but that core was put together in Winnipeg so that's not a great argument. If they would have stayed in Winnipeg you could have added those nine playoff appearances to their record. Anyways Winnipeg has to add maybe 2000 seats to a brand new building and they have a possible corporate sponsor deal now if they were to make it back to Winnipeg.

the thompson's are on of the richest families in the world. money won't be a problem if there in winnipeg.... how much has the NHL lost this year in Phoenix??... I've heard ~20 million.

[zettie85]

the thompson's are on of the richest families in the world. money won't be a problem if there in winnipeg.... how much has the NHL lost this year in Phoenix??... I've heard ~20 million.

At least I would imagine.

[miller76]

You do realize that the team that made it 9 of 12 years was built in Winnipeg? They may have played in Phoenix but that core was put together in Winnipeg so that's not a great argument. If they would have stayed in Winnipeg you could have added those nine playoff appearances to their record. Anyways Winnipeg has to add maybe 2000 seats to a brand new building and they have a possible corporate sponsor deal now if they were to make it back to Winnipeg.

That may all be true and you do carry a valid argument. The corporate sponsorship is huge, but television revenues are where it's at. American television creates a gross amount of money compared to any television market in Canada. And being that Phoenix is turning into this metropolis of a city, Winnipeg can hardly compete on that end.

[zettie85]

That may all be true and you do carry a valid argument. The corporate sponsorship is huge, but television revenues are where it's at. American television creates a gross amount of money compared to any television market in Canada. And being that Phoenix is turning into this metropolis of a city, Winnipeg can hardly compete on that end.

Canada can never compete with TV money deals but they can blow most markets out of the water in viewers. I imagine if they moved back Roger's SPortsnet would pick up the teams regional games and they would get CBC deals and TSN deals. The amount of people watching those alone would blow Phoenix out of the water. Then again a TV deal in Phoenix may bring in more money than those 3 all together.

[miller76]

Canada can never compete with TV money deals but they can blow most markets out of the water in viewers. I imagine if they moved back Roger's SPortsnet would pick up the teams regional games and they would get CBC deals and TSN deals. The amount of people watching those alone would blow Phoenix out of the water. Then again a TV deal in Phoenix may bring in more money than those 3 all together.

That's kind of what I am saying. Putting it all on tsn and so in Canada with everyone in the country watching still somehow comes up short in revenue dollars when comparing the two countries.

But what I don't understand, is I know these are proud Canadians wanting a hockey team back in the country. And out of all the possibilities, Winnipeg is probably the best choice if Hamilton wasn't to come to fruition. But people are thinking that moving a team to Winnipeg isn't going to cost millions. Millions are still going to be lost there, for years to come. And why does an intelligent business man, family, or company, full knowingly accept that as a good deal to have a dream of a hockey team there?

[zettie85]

That's kind of what I am saying. Putting it all on tsn and so in Canada with everyone in the country watching still somehow comes up short in revenue dollars when comparing the two countries.

But what I don't understand, is I know these are proud Canadians wanting a hockey team back in the country. And out of all the possibilities, Winnipeg is probably the best choice if Hamilton wasn't to come to fruition. But people are thinking that moving a team to Winnipeg isn't going to cost millions. Millions are still going to be lost there, for years to come. And why does an intelligent business man, family, or company, full knowingly accept that as a good deal to have a dream of a hockey team there?

Why do you expect them to continue to lose millions though? The TV deals may not be as much but with the corporate sponsorship and the fact that Winnipeg has barely been effected by the economic downturn they are sure to sell out. If they become the Jet's again their merchandise sales will be through the roof. I would buy a Jet's jersey in a second if they came back.

[ToMaToToWnWinGsFaN_24]

well for those who live in canada or get CBC...you can watch the Coyotes take on the Oilers tonight at 10pm est.

Why do you expect them to continue to lose millions though? The TV deals may not be as much but with the corporate sponsorship and the fact that Winnipeg has barely been effected by the economic downturn they are sure to sell out. If they become the Jet's again their merchandise sales will be through the roof. I would buy a Jet's jersey in a second if they came back.

i boughtt one a couple years ago in toronto. was a neat store that sold classic jerseys/uniforms from all teams in the four major sports (NBA, MLB, NFL, NHL). still have it today !

[zettie85]

I will say this though. Bettman probably wants to find a buyer for Phoenix and the get an expansion team in Winnipeg/Hamilton or wherever. The NHL would stand to make a s*** load of money if they did it that way.

[miller76]

Why do you expect them to continue to lose millions though? The TV deals may not be as much but with the corporate sponsorship and the fact that Winnipeg has barely been effected by the economic downturn they are sure to sell out. If they become the Jet's again their merchandise sales will be through the roof. I would buy a Jet's jersey in a second if they came back.

I think up on the initial costs and dues to be paying everyone involved and so on is paid, they will be okay. I think if the team doesn't perform well say after the five years of being back, they may find themselves on the under side of that safety line. Remember Winnipegs population is only 671,000. I think its possible for the novelty to sort of wear off. Fans start watching from their living rooms instead of the arena. And how about attracting marquee players there.

I have little doubt that a team being put back in Winnipeg, could ever lose as much money as a team did in Phoenix. But I wonder if Winnipeg is thee answer.

btw, I love the Jets jersey. I have an old Selanne blue one.

[F.Michael]

That may all be true and you do carry a valid argument. The corporate sponsorship is huge, but television revenues are where it's at. American television creates a gross amount of money compared to any television market in Canada. And being that Phoenix is turning into this metropolis of a city, Winnipeg can hardly compete on that end.

Where is this corporate, and television $$$ you talk of?...For what it's worth it doesn't appear to be doing much; that franchise has lost more $$$ these past few seasons than what they may have lost throughout their history in Winnipeg.

I'm tired of these welfare child franchises; with their losses they hamper the leagues ability to generate revenue which in turn limits the salary cap, and it hurts teams like Detroit who will spend up to the cap limit.