81 replies to this topic

[Doc Holliday]

I'd love to see a statistic about how quickly the opposition scores when Ozzie's in net. My money says it's a goal within the first five shots on goal, maybe even the first three shots.

In all of Osgood's starts:

Philadelphia: First shot
Minnesota: First shot
Washington: 18 minutes into the second period
Chicago: 7 minutes into the first, 7th shot on net
Nashville: 14 minutes into the second
New Jersey: 15 minutes into the first
Calgary: First shot
Nashville: 10 minutes into the first
Florida: 8 minutes into the third
Toronto: 10 minutes into the first
San Jose: 14 minutes into the second
Boston: Shut out
Calgary: 14 minutes into the second
Vancouver: Less than a minute into the first
Phoenix: 16 minutes into the first
Colorado: 9 minutes into the third
LA: 5 minutes into the first
Buffalo: 12 minutes into the first
Washington: 4 minutes into the first
Chicago: 1 minute into the second
St. Louis: 7 minutes into the first

So: (<10 into the first/<0 into the second/<10 into the second/<0 into the third/<10 into the third/>10 into the third/overtime/none against)

9-4-1-4-2-0-0-1

9/21 times Osgood has been scored on within 10 minutes of play. 4 of 21 on the first shot. Numbers could be off but that should be just about correct.

I'll do Howard later (that's what she said).

Edited by Doc Holliday, 04 April 2010 - 11:59 PM.

[Doc Holliday]

In all of Howard's starts:

(for the sake of clarity I'm just going to use the "record" used before instead of listing every start and how he did.

18-11-12-12-2-1-1-2

So he was scored on within the first 10 minutes 18/58 times.

To compare:

Osgood's "f*** I got scored on early!" percentage: 42%
Howard's FIGSOE percentage: 31%

Not factoring in first shots (or shots within 5 minutes of the game) allowed for either goaltender.

Also Osgood's record in his last 10 starts was 2-6-2 before the Philly game.

Edited by Doc Holliday, 05 April 2010 - 12:17 AM.

[zettie85]

Seriously. How long did this take you?

[Doc Holliday]

Seriously. How long did this take you?

Not too long. About half an hour?


I can't fall asleep and I'm listening to "DON'T STOP ME NAO" by Queen so I'm keeping busy. Plus I have a bunch of work I'm trying to catch up on regarding a site in Troy so I got plenty of time to kill for myself.

[jjd06e]

I know its not a fair comparison because the 07-08 team won the cup, but just to show how bad Osgood has been this season

in 07-08 Osgood was 27-9-4, he had 9 losses and 4 otl in 43 games

this season Osgood is 7-9-4, so 9 losses and 4 otl in 23 games

He has as many losses/otl as he did 2 seasons ago in 20 less games.

His GAA also jumped almost a goal a game (2.09 to 3.02) and Save percentage dropped from .914 to .888

I think its hard to call this season a fluke, his gaa is almost identical this season to last season (3.09 and 3.02) and is Save Percentage is almost identical as well (.888 and .887). We dont have the offense to bail him out this year that we had last year, and his record is reflecting that. I think age has caught up to him, he had a great career as a Red Wing goalie and I respect everything he has done. But its gotten to a point that I cringe everytime he is in net and you can almost put 3 goals on the board for the other team to start.

[bdavis]

I didn't think that Ozzie played as bad as previous games, but that first goal was pretty terrible. I mean, he is an NHL goalie, and that seemed to be a pretty standard save. Jimmy would've had no problem with the shot.

I think it is time for Jimmy to shine, and Oz to accept his role as back-up. Although I do agree that even as back-up, he deserved more starts. His age is catching up with him, which with less starts means more rust. I would say that rust on a 37 year old goalie is not a good thing, especially when in a back-up role. He should finish up the rest of his contract with the Wings, as a back-up, and he might have a year or two left as a starter with another team. I don't think the Wings can take a chance on a 39-40 year old goalie, even as a backup. He should be appreciated for his work in the past, but now is time to look at Jimmy as our #1 guy. Hopefully next year, Oz will get more starts, and finish his time with the Wings in a positive light.

[SouthernWingsFan]

I didn't think that Ozzie played as bad as previous games, but that first goal was pretty terrible. I mean, he is an NHL goalie, and that seemed to be a pretty standard save. Jimmy would've had no problem with the shot.

I think it is time for Jimmy to shine, and Oz to accept his role as back-up. Although I do agree that even as back-up, he deserved more starts. His age is catching up with him, which with less starts means more rust. I would say that rust on a 37 year old goalie is not a good thing, especially when in a back-up role. He should finish up the rest of his contract with the Wings, as a back-up, and he might have a year or two left as a starter with another team. I don't think the Wings can take a chance on a 39-40 year old goalie, even as a backup. He should be appreciated for his work in the past, but now is time to look at Jimmy as our #1 guy. Hopefully next year, Oz will get more starts, and finish his time with the Wings in a positive light.

I don't think the issue is anymore is if Osgood is the permanent #1 starter. I highly doubt anybody would dispute that. My guess is that hopefully it would've been that way at the beginning of the year to let Howard get his feet wet more/less, but there were factors like subpar play all around from the team, injuries, injuries/flu (?) to both goalies I think at times, and Howard took the opportunity and ran with it. Good for him and it's all but apparently he'll be starting in the playoffs, which I have no problem with. I think in a perfect world though this season you would've seen Osgood get more starts with Howard maybe playing something like 2/5 of the games or whatever, or the goalies splitting equal time roughly where a playoff spot was already settled early. The world is not perfect though.

[Frozen-Man]

I would agree, but no one is talking about just this game. Ozzie has been bad all season, particularly the last 10 starts, which I am pointing out in this thread. This isnt about just this game.

Except you kind of have to talk about just the one game in Ozzy's case because it is his first start since January 27th, 68 days between starts makes it kind of hard to get a realistic grasp of how a player is playing. And amazingly there are about 4 threads about Ozzy since yesterday, I doubt that is a coincidence.

How can anyone say Babcock mishandled the goalie situation this year? Howard is the only reason we're in the playoff hunt right now. He should win the Calder and be nominated for the selke for the stats he has right now. We're used to having 2 goalies that play an even amount through the season because we've never really had an elite goalie, or we've had two goalies playing very close to the same level. Now we have Ozzie, who despite winning us cups and blah blah blah can't win a game for us in the reg. season. And we have Howard who is putting up Vezina nominee worthy stats.

That would be impressive if Howard got nominated for the Selke, perhaps he will get nominated for the Norris and Adams awards as well.

I actually have an osgood jersey and am a fan of his, but if he is not performing well then i am not going to just make excuses and defend him just because i like the guy. It actually does kind of upset me, because if Howard and osgoods stats were switched this year you would want to cut howard and never give him another start. But just because osgood used to be an amazing goalie people overly defend him with no justification.

That is true, Howard would not get the kind of slack that many here are discussing for Osgood and that is largely because before this year Howard has proven nothing and as you said Osgood has been an amazing goalie in the past, therefore he gets more leeway (also you have to keep in mind Osgood has had subpar seasons recently and then played lights out in the playoffs so unlike Howard he has a record to backup the grace he is given). That is not a knock on Howard, who has been stellar this year, but merely the reality of a goalie who had a .926 and .930 SV% and 2.01 and 1.55 GAA the last two year respectively.

I'll do Howard later (that's what she said).

[zettie85]

Not too long. About half an hour?


I can't fall asleep and I'm listening to "DON'T STOP ME NAO" by Queen so I'm keeping busy. Plus I have a bunch of work I'm trying to catch up on regarding a site in Troy so I got plenty of time to kill for myself.

Just seemed like a lot of stats to find that's all.

[13dangledangle]

Ill start by saying I like Ozzy and respect what hes done, however facts are facts and you can tell how deflated the boys get every time he lets an early weak goal. Sorry Oz, but this is Howards team now.

[ilmickeyli]

Just seemed like a lot of stats to find that's all.

Yeah I thought Doc was watching game footage from every game all season lol

[zettie85]

To be fair to Babcock, if this team consistently played bad in front of Ozzie from November on until now we very well could be looking in at the Flames. Ozzie gets 5 more starts and only 1 win we aren't in. We clinched while being 5 points up. Babcock did what he had to do to get us into the playoffs. Honestly, can anyone guarantee that Ozzie would have improved and the team would play better around him with more starts? No. Babs did what he had to do.

Edited by zettie85, 05 April 2010 - 09:47 AM.

[13dangledangle]

To be fair to Babcock, if this team consistently played bad in front of Ozzie from November on until now we very well could be looking in at the Flames. Ozzie gets 5 more starts and only 1 win we aren't in. We clinched while being 5 points up. Babcock did what he had to do to get us into the playoffs. Honestly, can anyone guarantee that Ozzie would have improved and the team would play better around him with more starts? No. Babs did what he had to do.

Its hard for a team to play for a guy like this now, even last season (not playoffs lol) when he lets in a goal thats sooo weak sooo soon. Deflates your sails from the word go.

[newfy]

Except you kind of have to talk about just the one game in Ozzy's case because it is his first start since January 27th, 68 days between starts makes it kind of hard to get a realistic grasp of how a player is playing. And amazingly there are about 4 threads about Ozzy since yesterday, I doubt that is a coincidence.



That would be impressive if Howard got nominated for the Selke, perhaps he will get nominated for the Norris and Adams awards as well.



That is true, Howard would not get the kind of slack that many here are discussing for Osgood and that is largely because before this year Howard has proven nothing and as you said Osgood has been an amazing goalie in the past, therefore he gets more leeway (also you have to keep in mind Osgood has had subpar seasons recently and then played lights out in the playoffs so unlike Howard he has a record to backup the grace he is given). That is not a knock on Howard, who has been stellar this year, but merely the reality of a goalie who had a .926 and .930 SV% and 2.01 and 1.55 GAA the last two year respectively.

My bad. I put Selke because my friend was saying Ferraro was going to suck and be no better then Draper so I said I wouldn't mind that since Drapes scored 30 goals almost and won the Selke. Was saying the word Selke I guess so I typed it... Oops

[HadThomasVokounOnFortSt]

He was really scary in net yesterday.

[j.hoop]

ive been quite critical of osgoods sub-par play this year, but this is just getting old. youre beating a dead horse. osgood was decent yesterday, and without that soft first goal it would have been a completely different game.

[GoWings1905]

Yea, "absolutely nothing for osgood." They scored 3 goals and only allowed 25 shots in the game. Osgood must not really support the team by your standards, because HE brought nothing today. 4 goals on 25 shots is awful. At one point early in the game the flyers had 4 scoring chances and they had 3 goals. This can't happen if you want to be a starting goalie.

Did that not happen against Nashville and Edmonton as well?

[Frozen-Man]

My bad. I put Selke because my friend was saying Ferraro was going to suck and be no better then Draper so I said I wouldn't mind that since Drapes scored 30 goals almost and won the Selke. Was saying the word Selke I guess so I typed it... Oops

That's what I figured (and sounds like something I would do), it just made me laugh.

[zettie85]

Did that not happen against Nashville and Edmonton as well?

It doesn't mean play Osgood though.

[mmamolo]

At the end of the day we all have our biases and you can make all the justifications you want. Any of us can spin this argument and make either goalie out to look better or worse than they are. Personally, I really like both Howard and Osgood and I don't want either of them gone under any circumstances next season because I think they both bring a lot of value to this team. Yes, the Wings had poor showings in both of their last two games while both Howard and Osgood were in net. Yes, both goaltedners let in weak goals. And yes, the Osgood supporters can blame it on the rust and the Howard supporters can blame it on fatigue while the Osgood haters can blame it on diminished skill and the Howard haters can blame it on being overrated. The fact is we should be approaching this topic as (hopefully) Osgood and Howard are and embracing this duo as a tandem. Osgood is mentoring Howard and the duo are working well together. Babcock is going to go with who he thinks will give this team the best chance to win and we, as Wings fans, should be pumped at how our season (and team defence and goaltending) has turned out because a couple months ago we looked like s***.

Yeah, I wish we had had the luxury of being able to get Osgood more starts throughout the year but we've seen the emergence of a great young goalie. Yeah I wish Osgood didn't let in a s***ty goal some 20 seconds into the game in philly but I'm happy that he had a solid 3rd period. With 3 games to go in the season we're battling it out for 5th in the West let's reserve judgment on our goaltedning situation for these last few games.

I agree it would have been great if Osgood had come out and dominated the Flyers but now that he had a chance to knock some rust off he should have a chance to play the Jackets on Friday and if he puts in a solid performance I think we should all be pretty content. Things have come together well for this team so bickering over the goaltending seems pretty silly to me.