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mwagner468

Igor or Pavel

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who was better in their prime Igor Larionov or Pavel Datsyuk? I never saw Igor play with the red army team, but they seem to be the same type of player.

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Kind of apples and oranges on that one. The Professor was a great passer, if not one of the best of all time, and playmaker. Datsyuk is also great at both but maybe not as good as Igor was in his prime. Pasha is easily one of the best stickhandlers/danglers of all time. Datsyuk would probably have an edge when it comes to his offensive side of the game, scoring goals and racking up points but Igor would make up for it with his great hockey smarts.

Here's an interesting little side note: Larionov, Fetisov and Forsberg are the only three players to have won 2 or more of each required championship to be in the triple gold club.

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It is relatively easy to compare for me. I've seen Larionov in his prime (back in late 80s) playing for Red Army. He had an excellent players around him in Krutov and Makarov and he never looked like he is the best on that line. I would say he was an excellent passer with very good hockey sense. There are (were) a number of players that are (were) better than Larionov was in his prime (e.g. Thornton, Crosby, Forsberg, Gretzky, Lemeaux). Pav is unique. I've been watching hockey for more than 20 years and I've never seen a player like him. He can do everything better than any player in the current NHL and his skills are on par with greatest ones. And, in addition to that, he can do things I've never seen in hockey. This last thing makes him better.

Edited by RusDRW

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It is relatively easy to compare for me. I've seen Larionov in his prime (back in late 80s) playing for Red Army. He had an excellent players around him in Krutov and Makarov and he never looked like he is the best on that line. I would say he was an excellent passer with very good hockey sense. There are (were) a number of players that are (were) better than Larionov was in his prime (e.g. Thornton, Crosby, Forsberg, Gretzky, Lemeaux). Pav is unique. I've been watching hockey for more than 20 years and I've never seen a player like him. He can do everything better than any player in the current NHL and his skills are on par with greatest ones. And, in addition to that, he can do things I've never seen in hockey. This last thing makes him better.

Ok, well you had me at hello, then you lost me when you said that Crosby is better than Larionov in his prime. Crosby is a joke compared to everyone of the other names you mentioned, with the exceptions being Thornton and our beloved Datsyuk. Crosby would be destroyed in the 80's style NHL and wouldn't even make the Red Army team, and he wouldn't be half as good in the 90's style of the NHL where the likes of Fedorov, Bure & Forsberg and yes, Larionov excelled. If Crosby was born 15 years earlier, he'd be right about where Eric Lindros is now, mush melon... I have a hockey history too, I have been watching and following since 1979 so I am not just trying to knock Crosby down. (if I were, I would've called him by his LGW name throughout this post)

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What's the name?

I'm thinking Cindy.

Anyway, for me it is two different styles of play. It's like comparing a Corvette to a Mustang. Different drivers like different things.

Personally, I think Pavel is better, but I never saw Igor play in his youth.

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What's kind of ironic in all this, is that Pasha has said that his childhood idol is Igor. Go figure.

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Igor was a part of one of the best lines to ever play in world competition, imo, he wins hands down.

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What's kind of ironic in all this, is that Pasha has said that his childhood idol is Igor. Go figure.

I just hope Pav plays as long as Igor did. I want him on the Wings for another 10 years.

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Igor was an incredible talent but Pasha is the most talented player in the game when it comes down to it Dats just has more raw talent I believe...and not to mention he can "dangle dangle" better then anyone has.

PS~ I was watching the Wild/Oilers game and they showed some clips of a prospect of theres, I cant remember his name but it appeared this kid can also "dangle dangle" and even showed the kid doing Pavs Puckflip over the goaile...but this kids might have been better :o

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Ok, well you had me at hello, then you lost me when you said that Crosby is better than Larionov in his prime. Crosby is a joke compared to everyone of the other names you mentioned, with the exceptions being Thornton and our beloved Datsyuk. Crosby would be destroyed in the 80's style NHL and wouldn't even make the Red Army team, and he wouldn't be half as good in the 90's style of the NHL where the likes of Fedorov, Bure & Forsberg and yes, Larionov excelled. If Crosby was born 15 years earlier, he'd be right about where Eric Lindros is now, mush melon... I have a hockey history too, I have been watching and following since 1979 so I am not just trying to knock Crosby down. (if I were, I would've called him by his LGW name throughout this post)

I've seen far more people suggest "player X" from the 80s could never handle playing in today's NHL. Interesting that you have taken an opposite point of view.

I will be completely honest and say that I don't remember seeing Igor play before his days in teh NHL, I'm sure I have in various international tournaments, but I have no memory of him from those days. From an NHL career alone, clearly, Datsyuk has been the better player, but in their primes? I don't know. I suspect a lot of people here (most being from North America) may have a similar difficulty in assessing.

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I've seen the KLM line in their prime. It is tougher to concentrate on each individual player on that line than on NHL players, because of the style of play, constant movement, changing places, passes and drop passes. That style made Larionov look even better as a passer than he already was.

But the KLM played (mostly) against inferior opposition. That made pretty passing easier. Against the NHL All-Star teams or even against particularly well-coached and defensively sound Swedish and Czech national teams, they often had a bit more difficulty.

So given the above, I think Datsyuk really is a better player. Here's a (IMHO) breakdown of the relative strengths of the two players:

Defensive awareness and positioning: EVEN (with a superior hand-eye coordination giving Datsyuk an edge in steals department).

Passing: EVEN

Dribbling/one-on-one: Datsyk by a mile

Shooting: Datsyuk is slightly better

Play along the boards/corners, hitting: Datsyuk by a lot

Skating speed: EVEN

Leadership: Larionov

Offensive creativity/awareness: Datsyuk, slightly

I can't think of any other component of the game where I'd consider larionov to be better than Datsyuk.

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Igor was an incredible talent but Pasha is the most talented player in the game when it comes down to it Dats just has more raw talent I believe...and not to mention he can "dangle dangle" better then anyone has.

PS~ I was watching the Wild/Oilers game and they showed some clips of a prospect of theres, I cant remember his name but it appeared this kid can also "dangle dangle" and even showed the kid doing Pavs Puckflip over the goaile...but this kids might have been better :o

I'm sure it was Linus Omark, as he just signed with the Oilers a couple of days ago. Yes, he is also a fun player to watch. He did the flip over the goalie before Pavel, although it was in an exhibition game against Switzerland so imo Pav's was way more impressive.

Omark can come up with some great moves and I look forward to seeing him in the NHL, but his "dangle dangle" skills (or any of his other skills) are not on the level of Pavel's, not even close.

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I'm sure it was Linus Omark, as he just signed with the Oilers a couple of days ago. Yes, he is also a fun player to watch. He did the flip over the goalie before Pavel, although it was in an exhibition game against Switzerland so imo Pav's was way more impressive.

Omark can come up with some great moves and I look forward to seeing him in the NHL, but his "dangle dangle" skills (or any of his other skills) are not on the level of Pavel's, not even close.

:thumbup: That's him man thx! this was the move that impressed me more actually, the shot between he legs one, sweet. Im glad Pasha's better though :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=B-hmgMogFVQ&feature=related

Edited by 13dangledangle
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Larionov was a better passer, had better vision and most have not mentioned his defensive play, which contributed a LOT to what made the KLM line so great.

This is actually a tough one... Datsyuk is by far the more creative player and has more physical talent.

I think I would give Larionov the slight advantage in prime play right now (though Datsyuk could pass him if he keeps it up for a few more years). Larionov's career will always be more impressive than Datsyuk's.

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Igor gets less credit for the greatness of that team than he deserves, sure the team was unstoppable, but that top line was a major reason why, I think they are all 3 now in the HOF.

That team had top shelf talent all over it, but none greater than the KLM line, and lots of people argue about the best player on that line.

OR

Maybe I am a sentimentalist and just can not give Pavel (my fav wing btw) the nod over Igor.

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Igor gets less credit for the greatness of that team than he deserves, sure the team was unstoppable, but that top line was a major reason why, I think they are all 3 now in the HOF.

Nope - and it's a travesty. Makarov is easily the best player *not* in the Hall of Fame right now... he better get in this year.

Krutov is not in either, largely because he did by far the least of the 3 in the NHL (thanks to a fondness of American fast food).

That team had top shelf talent all over it, but none greater than the KLM line, and lots of people argue about the best player on that line.

OR

Maybe I am a sentimentalist and just can not give Pavel (my fav wing btw) the nod over Igor.

Igor also has a huge edge on Pavel in playoffs and tournament play.

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Ok, well you had me at hello, then you lost me when you said that Crosby is better than Larionov in his prime. Crosby is a joke compared to everyone of the other names you mentioned, with the exceptions being Thornton and our beloved Datsyuk. Crosby would be destroyed in the 80's style NHL and wouldn't even make the Red Army team, and he wouldn't be half as good in the 90's style of the NHL where the likes of Fedorov, Bure & Forsberg and yes, Larionov excelled. If Crosby was born 15 years earlier, he'd be right about where Eric Lindros is now, mush melon... I have a hockey history too, I have been watching and following since 1979 so I am not just trying to knock Crosby down. (if I were, I would've called him by his LGW name throughout this post)

It is pretty unfair to say Crosby would have sucked back then. You may not be trying to knock Crosby like most ppl do but you are knocking his skill. He has a little more freedom now to move around without being bullied but great players adapt and to say he wouldn't be great back then is just ignorant. Gretzky should have been owned by the guys in the 80's but he had guys who would protect him and he had other skilled guys that would open up space for him.

Bottom line Crosbys skills are rarely acknowledged of LGW.

To the OP. Datsyuk is the best player in hockey right now. I may be biased but his skill is unmatched. He stared slow this year but he's got it back and he amazes me with every touch of the puck. Igor never did that for me.

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Makarov is easily the best player *not* in the Hall of Fame right now...

Really? This is a bit strange. Guess this is because it is *NHL* HOF not hockey HOF.

Edited by RusDRW

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Larionov would be the more logical choice given the success he had not only in the NHL, but on the International level as well. However, I think its not truly a fair comparison because Dats was not part of a machine in the Red Army teams of the old Soviet Union.

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Really? This is a bit strange. Guess this is because it is *NHL* HOF not hockey HOF.

Well, it is technically the Hockey Hall of Fame, and not the NHL Hall of Fame - though clearly there is a big bias there.

Makarov is better than probably 75% of the players already in.

Then you have Mark Howe who is blacklisted largely because he jumped to the WHA.

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Really? This is a bit strange. Guess this is because it is *NHL* HOF not hockey HOF.

No, it's not.

Tretiak and Kharlamov are both in the Hall.

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I'm thinking Cindy.

Anyway, for me it is two different styles of play. It's like comparing a Corvette to a Mustang. Different drivers like different things.

Personally, I think Pavel is better, but I never saw Igor play in his youth.

I kind of agree, however I think its more like comparing a Corvette to a Cadillac. Pavel is a fast and entertaining specimen to watch and can do things that make you take a double take. His ability to steal the puck from ANY player and that player doesn't even know it happened is something that amazes me every-time I see it.

Igor on the other hand played offense kind of the way Lindstrom plays defense. He made it look effortless and was not flashy. He seamed to always be in the right place ant the right time and with his pin point passing could make plays, seemingly, with ease.

Ether way, I consider myself very lucky that I got to see both players play for my team and got to enjoy both there immense talents. I couldn't say that one is better than the other but I do think that Pavel has a more entertaining style of play.

Edited by hellsson
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Carman?

Hahaha. That's a good one!

So far there's Whiny Face, C-Word and now Carman that's a good way to refer that thing in Pittsburgh.

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