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Igor or Pavel


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#21 MotorCityMadness

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 11:46 AM

Larionov would be the more logical choice given the success he had not only in the NHL, but on the International level as well. However, I think its not truly a fair comparison because Dats was not part of a machine in the Red Army teams of the old Soviet Union.
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#22 egroen

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 11:52 AM

Really? This is a bit strange. Guess this is because it is *NHL* HOF not hockey HOF.

Well, it is technically the Hockey Hall of Fame, and not the NHL Hall of Fame - though clearly there is a big bias there.
Makarov is better than probably 75% of the players already in.

Then you have Mark Howe who is blacklisted largely because he jumped to the WHA.
Red Kelly #4 and Larry Aurie #6 belong in the rafters!!!

"For my game, I don't need to score the goal," Konstantinov once explained. "I need someone to start thinking about me and forgetting about scoring goals."

#23 zettie85

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 11:54 AM

Really? This is a bit strange. Guess this is because it is *NHL* HOF not hockey HOF.


No, it's not.

Tretiak and Kharlamov are both in the Hall.
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#24 hellsson

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 12:08 PM

I'm thinking Cindy.

Anyway, for me it is two different styles of play. It's like comparing a Corvette to a Mustang. Different drivers like different things.

Personally, I think Pavel is better, but I never saw Igor play in his youth.

I kind of agree, however I think its more like comparing a Corvette to a Cadillac. Pavel is a fast and entertaining specimen to watch and can do things that make you take a double take. His ability to steal the puck from ANY player and that player doesn't even know it happened is something that amazes me every-time I see it.

Igor on the other hand played offense kind of the way Lindstrom plays defense. He made it look effortless and was not flashy. He seamed to always be in the right place ant the right time and with his pin point passing could make plays, seemingly, with ease.

Ether way, I consider myself very lucky that I got to see both players play for my team and got to enjoy both there immense talents. I couldn't say that one is better than the other but I do think that Pavel has a more entertaining style of play.

Edited by hellsson, 06 April 2010 - 12:10 PM.


#25 titanium2

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 12:16 PM

Carman?


Hahaha. That's a good one!

So far there's Whiny Face, C-Word and now Carman that's a good way to refer that thing in Pittsburgh.

#26 GMRwings1983

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 01:04 PM

Nope - and it's a travesty. Makarov is easily the best player *not* in the Hall of Fame right now... he better get in this year.
Krutov is not in either, largely because he did by far the least of the 3 in the NHL (thanks to a fondness of American fast food).


Igor also has a huge edge on Pavel in playoffs and tournament play.


Is Mikhailov in the HOF?

Just wondering.
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#27 zettie85

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 01:07 PM

Is Mikhailov in the HOF?

Just wondering.


No. That I know of.
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#28 GMRwings1983

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 01:12 PM

No. That I know of.


Very unusual, since he was the center of the top line for a long time.

Kharlamov was a special player, but why is he in the HOF but Mikhailov isn't? For a while there, he was considered by many to be the best center on the planet.

I'm guessing Kharlamov got in because he's more known in Canada due to scaring the pants off of Canadians in that Summit Series. Eventually prompted s***bag Clark to slash his leg. Mikhailov was a great player, but not as flashy as Kharlamov (maybe no one was back then).

Edited by GMRwings1983, 06 April 2010 - 01:13 PM.

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#29 zettie85

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 01:15 PM

Ya. He definitely stands out because of the awe factor he had in that series. Most of that team could be in the Hall of Fame if they were able to play in the NHL.

Bobby did what had to be done.
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#30 egroen

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 01:16 PM

Fetisov, Larionov, Tretiak and Kharlamov are the only great pre-NHL guys in (I believe).
There are plenty who are deserving... but I think the committee (almost all old north-american dudes) still harbors a lot of resentment from the cold war days.
Red Kelly #4 and Larry Aurie #6 belong in the rafters!!!

"For my game, I don't need to score the goal," Konstantinov once explained. "I need someone to start thinking about me and forgetting about scoring goals."

#31 GMRwings1983

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 01:18 PM

Fetisov, Larionov, Tretiak and Kharlamov are the only great pre-NHL guys in (I believe).
There are plenty who are deserving... but I think the committee (almost all old north-american dudes) still harbors a lot of resentment from the cold war days.


Two words should affect their thinking.

Bernie Federko. :ph34r:
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#32 Pskov Wings Fan

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 01:39 PM

Ya. He definitely stands out because of the awe factor he had in that series. Most of that team could be in the Hall of Fame if they were able to play in the NHL.

Bobby did what had to be done.


It depends on your point of view regarding the purpose of the hockey game.
If it is to determine which team is better at hockey then what Clark did is unsportsmanlike at the very least.
On the other hand if the purpose is to win at any cost then yeah, he did good.

I think in North America "win at any cost" point of view is very prevalent.

#33 zettie85

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 01:43 PM

It depends on your point of view regarding the purpose of the hockey game.
If it is to determine which team is better at hockey then what Clark did is unsportsmanlike at the very least.
On the other hand if the purpose is to win at any cost then yeah, he did good.

I think in North America "win at any cost" point of view is very prevalent.


He did what he had to do because we went into that series thinking it would be a cake walk. Completely underestimating was the worst thing that they could have done, and they did it.

If Canada loses that series it is devastating to Canadian hockey. Kharlamov was owning the Canadians and he had to be dealt with to save face.
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#34 Pskov Wings Fan

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 01:53 PM

He did what he had to do because we went into that series thinking it would be a cake walk. Completely underestimating was the worst thing that they could have done, and they did it.

If Canada loses that series it is devastating to Canadian hockey. Kharlamov was owning the Canadians and he had to be dealt with to save face.


Yes, I understand the reasons. It is just unfortunate that at times sport crosses into realm of politics.

Edited by Pskov Wings Fan, 06 April 2010 - 02:41 PM.


#35 CopenhagenWing

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 01:53 PM

He did what he had to do because we went into that series thinking it would be a cake walk. Completely underestimating was the worst thing that they could have done, and they did it.

If Canada loses that series it is devastating to Canadian hockey. Kharlamov was owning the Canadians and he had to be dealt with to save face.


By that rationale, I guess Maltby should've crushed Giguere's larynx in '03 since he owned the Wings in that series.

Ridiculous.

#36 zettie85

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 02:06 PM

By that rationale, I guess Maltby should've crushed Giguere's larynx in '03 since he owned the Wings in that series.

Ridiculous.


It was about more than just hockey.
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#37 egroen

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 02:13 PM

If I was Canadian, Clarke's actions would have appalled me... even at the time.
Sweet, my team has to maliciously break the ankle of the other teams' best player in order to win. Go Team!

That series meant a heck of a lot more than just hockey, but let's not fool ourselves into thinking Clarke prevented a nuclear winter, there.

Edited by egroen, 06 April 2010 - 02:20 PM.

Red Kelly #4 and Larry Aurie #6 belong in the rafters!!!

"For my game, I don't need to score the goal," Konstantinov once explained. "I need someone to start thinking about me and forgetting about scoring goals."

#38 zettie85

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 02:21 PM

If I was Canadian, Clarke's actions would have appalled me... even at the time.
Sweet, my team has to maliciously break the ankle of other teams' best player in order to win. Go Team!

That series meant a heck of a lot more than just hockey, but let's not fool ourselves into thinking Clarke prevented a nuclear winter, there.


Everyone remembers the slash but no one ever seems to mention that Mikhailov actually kicked Bergman. Slashing happens in every game, does kicking? Kicking is definitely worse.

Clarkes slash was definitely dirty but 1) He was a kid doing what he was told. 2) The game did mean more then any one of us could imagine.

Edited by zettie85, 06 April 2010 - 02:21 PM.

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#39 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 02:22 PM

Larionov would be the more logical choice given the success he had not only in the NHL, but on the International level as well. However, I think its not truly a fair comparison because Dats was not part of a machine in the Red Army teams of the old Soviet Union.

Agreed. It's hard to make an apples to apples comparison. Different eras, and honestly different styles.

But if you're going by careers, Igor takes the cake. The KLM line, and he's won everything championship there is to win in hockey. Three Cups, two Olympic Golds, four Wold Championship golds, Canada Cup gold, and two golds in the world juniors.

honestly it's less about picking one over the other, but it's fun to look back and see what kind of player Igor was before he came to the Wings.

#40 GMRwings1983

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 02:24 PM

Clarke is a piece of s*** who spent his whole career hiding behind his tough Flyers teammates and occassionally dishing out cheap hits.

His actions were dirty and it actually cheapened Canada's victory in my book. If you have to take out the other team's best player to win, then that doesn't impress me in the least bit. And f*** the coach for telling him also.
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