Williams is lacking moxy

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Williams plays exactly the type of game that caused our early round upsets in the past. Skilled, but refuses to engage in the play. Actually, this year he doesn't even look particularly skilled.

Bench his ass.

Besides, Abdelkader showed that if anything, he steps it up for the playoffs.

At least Abdelkader can contribute to a win without showing up on the score sheet. You can't really say that for Williams...

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

At least Abdelkader can contribute to a win without showing up on the score sheet. You can't really say that for Williams...

Benching Williams seems to be the given,judging by the way he's played.What a waste of a roster spot..

[titanium2 867]

Has ShanahanMan posted in this thread yet?

[titanium2 867]

After some time of watching him on the ice and trying to figure out what he was missing I decided he just doesn't have any moxy while he is playing the game. He can make good plays and is seemingly responsible with the puck, but he plays with little heart. There is no battle to his game and many nights he is just invisible on the ice. There is little excitement to his play. I don't hate the guy but he is so... meh

Is it still possible for you to add a poll to this thread? Something along the lines of, "Do you want Williams to be on the playoff roster?" with simple Yes or No options?

[Guest mjtm77]

hell put abby on the point of the powerplay. I HATE Williams

[titanium2 867]

It will be incredibly mind boggling to me if Babs has Williams on the playoff roster. What kind of effectiveness does Babs see from Willy that we don't?

[b.shanafan14 733]

All signs point to Williams sitting in the post-season. He has been bumped down to the fourth line with Draper and Miller, and he looked to be the worst one on it. The one thing keeping him around, as others have said, is Babcock's inability to accept two left-handed shots on the same PP unit. He would much rather see Williams look completely impotent out there then put anyone else back there.

As someone else stated: Samuelsson >>>> Williams, Williams is Samuelsson's understudy, that's why he left in the first place.

[Bluedevils_13 0]

We should just try and confuse the s*** out of everyone and send Lils out there on the PP.

[Carman 387]

We should just try and confuse the s*** out of everyone and send Lils out there on the PP.

Wouldn't be fair.

The intimidation factor with a man advantage is just simply cheating.

[Guest Crymson]

I was adjusting some stats on NHL 10 today. I got to Williams and I realized that he has been very invisible this year. I hardly remembered that he was on the team. What a change from four years ago.

[eva unit zero 271]

I haven't seen a PP yet in which handedness wouldn't matter. It doesn't matter how you play it it always does. I dunno how could you possibly ignore it. Ericsson is left, Williams is right if that was what you were meaning.

As I said I don't think we need Williams, but handedness DO matter alot in any PP. Even if they don't shoot from the point, it's about the threat that they CAN shoot from there. If the handedness match well there are much more options for passes and much more scoring chances.

I'd rather a left-handed shot on the right point personally. That's actually more of a shooting threat. If Williams is on the point as a shooting threat, he should be on the LEFT point. It puts his shot straighter on the net, but still allows him to pass down low. Sending a pass across to the other D is not difficult unless he's under heavy pressure. Which further proves the point that handedness is far less important than having people who know what the hell they are doing in the right spots. Stuart and Ericsson, for example, are not passers. But they can definitely shoot. And guess what? They're left handed. And we're talking about needing a shooter for the right point to replace Williams. How convenient.

Although next season I wouldn't mind seeing them try out Hudler in that spot. He's run a PP very effectively from the point before, and it would definitely be worth a look to see how it would work out if Babcock is intent on having a forward on the point. It would also allow them to have Dats/Franzen/Homer/Z/Flip/Bert or whatever up front on the PP if all of those guys are back.

[Dominator2005 558]

I'd rather a left-handed shot on the right point personally. That's actually more of a shooting threat. If Williams is on the point as a shooting threat, he should be on the LEFT point. It puts his shot straighter on the net, but still allows him to pass down low. Sending a pass across to the other D is not difficult unless he's under heavy pressure. Which further proves the point that handedness is far less important than having people who know what the hell they are doing in the right spots. Stuart and Ericsson, for example, are not passers. But they can definitely shoot. And guess what? They're left handed. And we're talking about needing a shooter for the right point to replace Williams. How convenient.

Although next season I wouldn't mind seeing them try out Hudler in that spot. He's run a PP very effectively from the point before, and it would definitely be worth a look to see how it would work out if Babcock is intent on having a forward on the point. It would also allow them to have Dats/Franzen/Homer/Z/Flip/Bert or whatever up front on the PP if all of those guys are back.

And I would rather have Latendresse - you know, guy who can't skate, hit, score... oups

[newfy 695]

I'd rather a left-handed shot on the right point personally. That's actually more of a shooting threat. If Williams is on the point as a shooting threat, he should be on the LEFT point. It puts his shot straighter on the net, but still allows him to pass down low. Sending a pass across to the other D is not difficult unless he's under heavy pressure. Which further proves the point that handedness is far less important than having people who know what the hell they are doing in the right spots. Stuart and Ericsson, for example, are not passers. But they can definitely shoot. And guess what? They're left handed. And we're talking about needing a shooter for the right point to replace Williams. How convenient.

Although next season I wouldn't mind seeing them try out Hudler in that spot. He's run a PP very effectively from the point before, and it would definitely be worth a look to see how it would work out if Babcock is intent on having a forward on the point. It would also allow them to have Dats/Franzen/Homer/Z/Flip/Bert or whatever up front on the PP if all of those guys are back.

I wouldn't say Huds is the guy to run a PP from the point. He doesn't have the clapper to play the point.

[Finnish Wing 110]

I'd rather a left-handed shot on the right point personally. That's actually more of a shooting threat. If Williams is on the point as a shooting threat, he should be on the LEFT point. It puts his shot straighter on the net, but still allows him to pass down low. Sending a pass across to the other D is not difficult unless he's under heavy pressure. Which further proves the point that handedness is far less important than having people who know what the hell they are doing in the right spots. Stuart and Ericsson, for example, are not passers. But they can definitely shoot. And guess what? They're left handed. And we're talking about needing a shooter for the right point to replace Williams. How convenient.

Although next season I wouldn't mind seeing them try out Hudler in that spot. He's run a PP very effectively from the point before, and it would definitely be worth a look to see how it would work out if Babcock is intent on having a forward on the point. It would also allow them to have Dats/Franzen/Homer/Z/Flip/Bert or whatever up front on the PP if all of those guys are back.

I don't know if you misunderstood me or what, but...

1) I never said anything about where would the right hand shooter fit better, I just said that when you have both left and right shooters, you have more options. And yes, I do think that having left handed guy on the right side and right handed guy on the left side is much much better for one-timers and shooting from the point, however, sometimes they keep it the other way around, because it's easier if they're trying to play the puck down low.

2) I'm not defending Williams at all here, I definitely wan't Abdelkader on the team over him. I was just replying to a post which said that "handedness don't matter much in Wings PP", which is completely wrong IMO. Handedness DO matter alot in any PP.

Did you notice by the way, that you made the assumption that Williams (as a shooter) plays on the right point, but when Ericsson/Stuart would replace him they would also play on the right point and have better shot option. Now, why couldn't Williams play on the left point then, to have that better shot option?

Edited April 10, 2010 by Finnish Wing

[Buppy 1,720]

I'd rather a left-handed shot on the right point personally. That's actually more of a shooting threat. If Williams is on the point as a shooting threat, he should be on the LEFT point. It puts his shot straighter on the net, but still allows him to pass down low. Sending a pass across to the other D is not difficult unless he's under heavy pressure. Which further proves the point that handedness is far less important than having people who know what the hell they are doing in the right spots. Stuart and Ericsson, for example, are not passers. But they can definitely shoot. And guess what? They're left handed. And we're talking about needing a shooter for the right point to replace Williams. How convenient.

Although next season I wouldn't mind seeing them try out Hudler in that spot. He's run a PP very effectively from the point before, and it would definitely be worth a look to see how it would work out if Babcock is intent on having a forward on the point. It would also allow them to have Dats/Franzen/Homer/Z/Flip/Bert or whatever up front on the PP if all of those guys are back.

Isn't Kovie a righty...

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

More and more I am favoring putting Abdlekader or May over Williams to play with Draper and Miller on a 3rd/4th line. I'm hoping that Cleary-Helm-Eaves stays constant.

I mentioned before in this thread that I understand and won't be disappointed if/why Williams remains in the lineup for the playoffs and I want him to succeed, but he is just bone dry right now.

[newfy 695]

I don't know if you misunderstood me or what, but...

1) I never said anything about where would the right hand shooter fit better, I just said that when you have both left and right shooters, you have more options. And yes, I do think that having left handed guy on the right side and right handed guy on the left side is much much better for one-timers and shooting from the point, however, sometimes they keep it the other way around, because it's easier if they're trying to play the puck down low.

2) I'm not defending Williams at all here, I definitely wan't Abdelkader on the team over him. I was just replying to a post which said that "handedness don't matter much in Wings PP", which is completely wrong IMO. Handedness DO matter alot in any PP.

Did you notice by the way, that you made the assumption that Williams (as a shooter) plays on the right point, but when Ericsson/Stuart would replace him they would also play on the right point and have better shot option. Now, why couldn't Williams play on the left point then, to have that better shot option?

Handedness really doesn't play a big factor in the wings PP unless its a 5on 3 or 4 on 3. They barely ever switch for one timers and even if they did Jason Williams hardly has a shot.

[Finnish Wing 110]

Handedness really doesn't play a big factor in the wings PP unless its a 5on 3 or 4 on 3. They barely ever switch for one timers and even if they did Jason Williams hardly has a shot.

You still don't get it. It's about the number of options they have. I'm not defending Williams but handedness do matter in any PP, alot. Even if they don't shoot from the point or shoot one-timers, it's about the threat that they CAN shoot from there. More options leads to more scoring chances, because the opposite PK has to take away those options. You think they're not gonna shoot from the point if the option presents itself? No matter how you play your PP handedness matter.

Obviously, you think I'm defending Williams here and you've come up with that "handedness don't matter in Wings PP" thing. I bet you wouldn't say like that if Stuart or Ericsson were right-shooters...

[newfy 695]

You still don't get it. It's about the number of options they have. I'm not defending Williams but handedness do matter in any PP, alot. Even if they don't shoot from the point or shoot one-timers, it's about the threat that they CAN shoot from there. More options leads to more scoring chances, because the opposite PK has to take away those options. You think they're not gonna shoot from the point if the option presents itself? No matter how you play your PP handedness matter.

Obviously, you think I'm defending Williams here and you've come up with that "handedness don't matter in Wings PP" thing. I bet you wouldn't say like that if Stuart or Ericsson were right-shooters...

No I know you aren't defending him. I'm saying the wings PP doesn't run with switched defenders on the point usually for one timers. Therefore what hand the defender is doesn't matter. If youre not on your one timer side you can pass to the corner or cross ice just the same. Theyre in the NHL. The only reason handedness matters on a PP is for one timers, not passing to the corners, cross ice etc.

[Guest Crymson]

Handedness really doesn't play a big factor in the wings PP unless its a 5on 3 or 4 on 3. They barely ever switch for one timers and even if they did Jason Williams hardly has a shot.

This sort of comment makes me think that you do not actually watch the games, because Rafalski and Lidstrom routinely switch for one-timers on the power play. Hell, Daniels remarks upon it every single time they do it.

[newfy 695]

This sort of comment makes me think that you do not actually watch the games, because Rafalski and Lidstrom routinely switch for one-timers on the power play. Hell, Daniels remarks upon it every single time they do it.

No I've missed about 2 games all year so don't say I don't watch. They hardly ever switch except on 5 on 3s or overtime power plays. I'm always yelling at them too switch and thats beside the fact because we're talking about Williams who plays with Kronwall and they hardly do switch.

Daniels probably remarks on it every time they do it because they rarely do it so when they do its noticeable.

[Finnish Wing 110]

No I know you aren't defending him. I'm saying the wings PP doesn't run with switched defenders on the point usually for one timers. Therefore what hand the defender is doesn't matter. If youre not on your one timer side you can pass to the corner or cross ice just the same. Theyre in the NHL. The only reason handedness matters on a PP is for one timers, not passing to the corners, cross ice etc.

It doesn't mean anything that "they're in the NHL". The PK guys are also NHLers. If our PP guys were playing against some Arabian hockey league guys, then yes, the handedness wouldn't matter much because we would score probably on every PP anyway.

Matching handedness create more options, more time for decicions and more scoring chances. I understand if your hockey knowledge is limited to enforcers and hitting everything that moves. But handedness do matter a lot and that's a fact.

If the right point guy is right handed it's much easier for him to play the puck down low and shoot it if the pass is coming from down low on the same side. To say that our PP doesn't use one-timers or point shots is just stupid. Every PP uses them if there are options for them. The more options you've got (point shots, one-timers, down low, cross-ice passes), the more options the opposite PK has to defend against and there will be more scoring chances.

The only time we would benefit from having two same handed defenders would be when playing umbrella formation, where the other defender (or a fourth forward) would be on the side

and there would be only one defender on the point, whose hand wouldn't matter. Even if playing umbrella team would still need at least one right shooter to get the most out of it.

Edited April 10, 2010 by Finnish Wing

[Guest Crymson]

No I've missed about 2 games all year so don't say I don't watch. They hardly ever switch except on 5 on 3s or overtime power plays. I'm always yelling at them too switch and thats beside the fact because we're talking about Williams who plays with Kronwall and they hardly do switch.

Daniels probably remarks on it every time they do it because they rarely do it so when they do its noticeable.

We must be watching different games, in that case. I see them do it very often, and it pays dividends.

[newfy 695]

We must be watching different games, in that case. I see them do it very often, and it pays dividends.

No I know it pays dividends, thats why it pisses me off that they don't do it as much as other teams. Off the faceoff they should be lined up on their one timer side instead of having to switch and everything.

[titanium2 867]

Haha. George makes quite the analogy on Jason Williams.

4. Jason Williams: Sometimes couples decide to give their relationship "another chance" and are reminded of the reasons why they called it quits in the first place. Inconsistent, injury-prone, and sometimes pining for the Fjords of Columbus, Williams was a horrible fit and played like he wanted out of town from the beginning of the season onwards. He'll get his wish this summer.

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2010/05/radio_ga-ga_red_wings_rebuttal.html