291 replies to this topic

[Doc Holliday]

A pair of guys that are more rounded than Hudler.Hudler isn't gonna score 70.Get the f*** over yourself.Armstrong will score more than 30 points.

With who?

His best years were with Sidney Crosby and Ilya Kovalchuk as his linemates. At a whopping 40 points each year.

He isn't going to get those same caliber teammates.

[newfy]

Yeah, but we have Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Filppula, Helm, Eaves, Miller, Draper, Cleary... all good defensive guys. We don't need a guy for our PK.

Our top forwards only had 70 points this season. I don't think that's so much. We need more offense and the fact is that if you want to get a guy with imaginary offense rated 10 and defense rated 5 it's cheaper or much cheaper than a guy with offense rated 10 and defense rated 7. And we wouldn't really even have no real use for that defensive ability. We need to strengthen our offense more than our defense at this time, that's the point.

We also already have a lot of soft players. Datsyuk, Z, Cleary and Flip should be put into scoring roles and not have to worry about defense. WIth guy like Hudler on the team it is more likely that they'll be forced into playing more defensively. If Dats or Z are stuck playing with Hudler they'll have to play twice as defensive to cover for his liable ass.

I wouldn't say Clarkson would be a better fit for our team's top 6 I would say he would be a better fit for our team however. And Armstrong would be a hell of a lot better then Hudler by far. You guys talk about how Hudler put up that many points playing on the 3rd line with bad players. Armstrong played for Atlanta and didn't play with Kovalchuk a lot. Hudler has played with twice the talent in his career then Armstrong and Armstrong would be a guy that people would keep their head up for. I don't think anyone keeps their head up for Hudler, even with their head down they're staring at the top of his head the guy is so damn small.

[titanium2]

You know what might be a good compromise for everybody arguing on here?

A sign and trade for Frolov. Again, a compromise.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros]

We also already have a lot of soft players. Datsyuk, Z, Cleary and Flip should be put into scoring roles and not have to worry about defense. WIth guy like Hudler on the team it is more likely that they'll be forced into playing more defensively. If Dats or Z are stuck playing with Hudler they'll have to play twice as defensive to cover for his liable ass.

I wouldn't say Clarkson would be a better fit for our team's top 6 I would say he would be a better fit for our team however. And Armstrong would be a hell of a lot better then Hudler by far. You guys talk about how Hudler put up that many points playing on the 3rd line with bad players. Armstrong played for Atlanta and didn't play with Kovalchuk a lot. Hudler has played with twice the talent in his career then Armstrong and Armstrong would be a guy that people would keep their head up for. I don't think anyone keeps their head up for Hudler, even with their head down they're staring at the top of his head the guy is so damn small.

Physicality is another aspect that comes into it.I think Armstrong is just a better fir for thi team right now.

[Finnish Wing]

A well-rounded TEAM.Not a one-dimensional TEAM.

Yes, and that's why we need a guy like Hudler. As a team we already have that defensive abilitiy, but lack offense. Getting Hudler helps with that. It's like we have 80 offense 100 defense and Hudler balances it to 100-100.

Of course I take a guy that is great in offense and great in defense over a guy that is great in offense but only average in defense, IF THEY WOULD HAVE THE SAME CAP HIT. We're living in a cap era, and when we get Hudler we don't pay too much money for defense which would be "wasted" as we already have great two-way guys.

Got the point?

[Doc Holliday]

We also already have a lot of soft players. Datsyuk, Z, Cleary and Flip should be put into scoring roles and not have to worry about defense. WIth guy like Hudler on the team it is more likely that they'll be forced into playing more defensively. If Dats or Z are stuck playing with Hudler they'll have to play twice as defensive to cover for his liable ass.

I wouldn't say Clarkson would be a better fit for our team's top 6 I would say he would be a better fit for our team however. And Armstrong would be a hell of a lot better then Hudler by far. You guys talk about how Hudler put up that many points playing on the 3rd line with bad players. Armstrong played for Atlanta and didn't play with Kovalchuk a lot. Hudler has played with twice the talent in his career then Armstrong and Armstrong would be a guy that people would keep their head up for. I don't think anyone keeps their head up for Hudler, even with their head down they're staring at the top of his head the guy is so damn small.

Oh geez.

How much physicality do you honestly think comes out of playing defense? Lidstrom is a top-5 defender EVER and has barely been physical. Datsyuk defends by takeaways. Zetterberg is one of Detroit's best shutdown players. Cleary is more of a grinder than anyone on the team.

Also Armstrong had 40 points in one year. What happened when Kovalchuk left? 11 fewer points and 7 less goals. Man what a player.

David Clarkson? What made you think he was better all around? His +/- is deplorable in comparison to Hudler's while playing in front of a much better regular season goaltender.

Physicality is another aspect that comes into it.I think Armstrong is just a better fir for thi team right now.

Since when did physicality become necessary for a player to be successful in a puck possession system?

Unless we are selecting Armstrong for a 4th line role guy at 1 mil, which I would have no problem lift.

Edited by Doc Holliday, 21 April 2010 - 04:34 PM.

[newfy]

Yes, and that's why we need a guy like Hudler. As a team we already have that defensive abilitiy, but lack offense. Getting Hudler helps with that. It's like we have 80 offense 100 defense and Hudler balances it to 100-100.

Of course I take a guy that is great in offense and great in defense over a guy that is great in offense but only average in defense, IF THEY WOULD HAVE THE SAME CAP HIT. We're living in a cap era, and when we get Hudler we don't pay too much money for defense which would be "wasted" as we already have great two-way guys.

Got the point?

Got it, but you don't get the point that he's not a huge offensive guy, what does he do in playoffs? Gets laid out to give the other team momentum and be too smalls and slow to make an impact. I would sacrifice 20 points in the regular season for a guy who will actually make an impact come playoff time. Hudler's 57 points doesn't mean s*** come playoffs.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros]

Yes, and that's why we need a guy like Hudler. As a team we already have that defensive abilitiy, but lack offense. Getting Hudler helps with that. It's like we have 80 offense 100 defense and Hudler balances it to 100-100.

Of course I take a guy that is great in offense and great in defense over a guy that is great in offense but only average in defense, IF THEY WOULD HAVE THE SAME CAP HIT. We're living in a cap era, and when we get Hudler we don't pay too much money for defense which would be "wasted" as we already have great two-way guys.

Got the point?

I'm just saying overall,you want most,if not all of your players to be responsible on both side of the puck.I don't think Hudler brings it.

[deetroit dario]

A well-rounded TEAM.Not a one-dimensional TEAM.

a single one dimensional (and i dispute this allegation) player does not a TEAM make. it makes a single player. count much?

and if huds is sof****** short, good! he'll skate right under the d's legs, and punch their sacs while he's doing it!

threads like this serve as a sickening reminder why the rest of the league hates our fans. seriously, you just have to be right. righter than babs, righter than kenny...

i wonder if the KHL would give me 5 million tax free to root for them...

[newfy]

Oh geez.

How much physicality do you honestly think comes out of playing defense? Lidstrom is a top-5 defender EVER and has barely been physical. Datsyuk defends by takeaways. Zetterberg is one of Detroit's best shutdown players. Cleary is more of a grinder than anyone on the team.

Also Armstrong had 40 points in one year. What happened when Kovalchuk left? 11 fewer points and 7 less goals. Man what a player.

David Clarkson? What made you think he was better all around? His +/- is deplorable in comparison to Hudler's while playing in front of a much better regular season goaltender.



Since when did physicality become necessary for a player to be successful in a puck possession system?

Unless we are selecting Armstrong for a 4th line role guy at 1 mil, which I would have no problem lift.

Youre comparing guys like Z, and Datsyuk and Lidstrom, three guys who will be hall of famers to Hudler. I never said physicality meant defense, I mean if a guy pays defense as well as another guy but lays people out at the same time, the big hitter is more valuable. A healthy cleary will put up 10 more points a season then Hudler.

Armstrong is a better option then Hudler.

[Doc Holliday]

Got it, but you don't get the point that he's not a huge offensive guy, what does he do in playoffs? Gets laid out to give the other team momentum and be too smalls and slow to make an impact. I would sacrifice 20 points in the regular season for a guy who will actually make an impact come playoff time. Hudler's 57 points doesn't mean s*** come playoffs.

You are right, Hudler has never been clutch in the playoffs.

Youre comparing guys like Z, and Datsyuk and Lidstrom, three guys who will be hall of famers to Hudler. I never said physicality meant defense, I mean if a guy pays defense as well as another guy but lays people out at the same time, the big hitter is more valuable. A healthy cleary will put up 10 more points a season then Hudler.

Armstrong is a better option then Hudler.

My point is those guys can play defense without worrying about being so "soff".

A "healthy" Cleary has never had more points in a season than Hudler has. Not one time. What makes you think he is going to start now? On the downswing of his career? With a cushy contract to sit on?

Edited by Doc Holliday, 21 April 2010 - 04:39 PM.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros]

a single one dimensional (and i dispute this allegation) player does not a TEAM make. it makes a single player. count much?

and if huds is sof****** short, good! he'll skate right under the d's legs, and punch their sacs while he's doing it!
threads like this serve as a sickening reminder why the rest of the league hates our fans. seriously, you just have to be right. righter than babs, righter than kenny...

i wonder if the KHL would give me 5 million tax free to root for them...

Or get laid out like Newfy said....

[deetroit dario]

"but you cannot reason with this man" - don vito corleone

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros]

"but you cannot reason with this man" - don vito corleone

Guilty As Charged

[Finnish Wing]

How is Armstrong a better fit for this team?

We're not gonna resigng more than one of Bertuzzi, Williams and Holmstrom. Top6 guys we're going to have next season: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Filppula, Bertuzzi/Williams/Holmstrom, X

Bottom6: Cleary, Helm, Draper, Abdelkader, Eaves, Miller

We already have enough bottom6 guys for next season. Of our top6 guys only two are better than Hudler offensively. Plus, three of them, Filppula, Zetterberg, Datsyuk are all good penalty killers too.

I fail to understand how Armstrong or any guy that brings us less offense and more defense for that same money could be a better option for this team. Armstrong has potential for +50, Hudler has potential for +70. Hudler is two years younger and has already played for this team and played under Babcock. You can hate all you want but I know which of them Babcock and Kenny want.

[deetroit dario]

Guilty As Charged

well, at least we agree on one thing.
meanwhile, as you prep the ruler to see who's opinion has the bigger ****, i'll simply wash my hands of this retarded argument, and let you get all crosby about how right you are. cause you're right. in that reason and logic are the furthest things from your mind...

enjoy the discourse. i'm out of this one...

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros]

well, at least we agree on one thing.
meanwhile, as you prep the ruler to see who's opinion has the bigger ****, i'll simply wash my hands of this retarded argument, and let you get all crosby about how right you are. cause you're right. in that reason and logic are the furthest things from your mind...

enjoy the discourse. i'm out of this one...

Later ******.You know it all man.

How is Armstrong a better fit for this team?

We're not gonna resigng more than one of Bertuzzi, Williams and Holmstrom. Top6 guys we're going to have next season: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Filppula, Bertuzzi/Williams/Holmstrom, X

Bottom6: Cleary, Helm, Draper, Abdelkader, Eaves, Miller

We already have enough bottom6 guys for next season. Of our top6 guys only two are better than Hudler offensively. Plus, three of them, Filppula, Zetterberg, Datsyuk are all good penalty killers too.

I fail to understand how Armstrong or any guy that brings us less offense and more defense for that same money could be a better option for this team. Armstrong has potential for +50, Hudler has potential for +70. Hudler is two years younger and has already played for this team and played under Babcock. You can hate all you want but I know which of them Babcock and Kenny want.

You just seriously don't get it.He's gonna be a 3rd line guy again.A linemate of his last year(Filppula)will be getting 2nd line minutes,therefore not playing with him.His ofense will be at the same level or less because of this.

[newfy]

How is Armstrong a better fit for this team?

We're not gonna resigng more than one of Bertuzzi, Williams and Holmstrom. Top6 guys we're going to have next season: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Filppula, Bertuzzi/Williams/Holmstrom, X

Bottom6: Cleary, Helm, Draper, Abdelkader, Eaves, Miller

We already have enough bottom6 guys for next season. Of our top6 guys only two are better than Hudler offensively. Plus, three of them, Filppula, Zetterberg, Datsyuk are all good penalty killers too.

I fail to understand how Armstrong or any guy that brings us less offense and more defense for that same money could be a better option for this team. Armstrong has potential for +50, Hudler has potential for +70. Hudler is two years younger and has already played for this team and played under Babcock. You can hate all you want but I know which of them Babcock and Kenny want.

Like I said, a guy who brings 20 less points in the regular season, that can hit, fight and show up in the playoffs if nothing else but laying out bodies in the top 6 is much more important to a team then a 60 point getter that can't play in his own zone or be even slightly effective in the corners.

Think of it this way. We could trade Hudler for a couple prospects or draft picks, with that money sign Armstrong. Essentially youre trading Hudler for Armstrong and 2 prospects. Sounds good to me anyday.

Its obvious that Hudler can put up points. What he can't do is play defense or be physical which are integral parts of hockey. Detroit believes in solid two way play from all forwards, Hudler was the only one last season that couldn't play good defensively.

Dats and Z are still physical players, especially compared to Hudler.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros]

Like I said, a guy who brings 20 less points in the regular season, that can hit, fight and show up in the playoffs if nothing else but laying out bodies in the top 6 is much more important to a team then a 60 point getter that can't play in his own zone or be even slightly effective in the corners.

Think of it this way. We could trade Hudler for a couple prospects or draft picks, with that money sign Armstrong. Essentially youre trading Hudler for Armstrong and 2 prospects. Sounds good to me anyday.

Its obvious that Hudler can put up points. What he can't do is play defense or be physical which are integral parts of hockey. Detroit believes in solid two way play from all forwards, Hudler was the only one last season that couldn't play good defensively.

Dats and Z are still physical players, especially compared to Hudler.

Just don't even try explaining to them.they don't understand the fact that playoff hockey isn't for one-dimensional ballerinas.

[newfy]

Just don't even try explaining to them.they don't understand the fact that playoff hockey isn't for one-dimensional ballerinas midgets.

There I fixed that for you