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Ozzy for game 4?


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#121 Zeowingsfan

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Posted 18 April 2010 - 10:36 PM

Wow, I thought all this time you were biased against him. What changed your tune?

If you ever took time to read posts you would have realized that Doc was never against Howard.
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#122 Rockitman

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Posted 18 April 2010 - 10:37 PM

Wow. I've kept silent for awhile now, (well....along with the whole "virus" thing on this site....hope THAT is cleared up!), but I HAD TO respond to this gem:

"Clutch" is not a skill, it's a state of being. And it is absolutely what separates a "good" Player from a Champion.

There is NOTHING more important in any must Win situation than being Clutch. Billy Smith was a TERRIBLE regular season goalie. He made a Hall of Fame career out of being......

Clutch.


VERY true couldn't agree more with that point
C'mon Wings let's fly!!!

#123 Firehawk

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Posted 18 April 2010 - 10:37 PM

I say Howard even if we go down. The only way I'd agree to pull Howard is if he gets absolutely annhilated and you can honestly look and say "he's done", much like Legace. He had that 'deer in the headlights' look and you knew he was cooked. Howard hasn't shown that to me at all. The first goal took 4 chances to score and the defense allowed that one. The second goal was a total lack of effort by the wings. The third goal makes me think Lidstrom WILL retire after this year. I can't say I've ever seen Lidstrom get totally owned on a play like that one. The fourth goal is a bad goal by Howard, no denying that. Still not enough in my mind to pull him.

The wings are not playing 60 minutes. Even in game 2 there were lapses. Game 1 was ridiculous, and Game 3 was even worse.

What I don't understand is, WHY? Why can't the wings find the effort for a full game? What the hell? They were pulling this in the late stages of last playoff. It's like they think because of what they accomplished that it will all work out, but they forget to put the effort in.

I think we will win on Tuesday, but we won't if we don't play with desperation.
U GUYS ARE FUKIN ANYOING IM GONNA COME DOWN THERE AND KILL ALL YALL THE ONLY THING THAT SAVED UR TEAM WAS OSGOOD AND OSSGOOD SUKS 2 JUST LIKE UR WHOLE FUKIN TEAM I HOPE U HEARD THIS AND THINK CAUSE ALL I GOT TO SAY TO U IS UR A BUNCH OF FUKIN IDIOTS BARONS A HOOSER CUSE HE WENT TO UR TEAM AND I HOPE U GUYS SHOULD SEND UR TEAM TO ANOTHER CITY CAUSE U GUYS ARE A BUNCH OF FUKIN WHINERS GO CANUCKS GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! --- A canucks fan on stltoday.com

This was so funny I had to set it as my sig.

#124 HelmerFan

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Posted 18 April 2010 - 11:38 PM

Howard gives up 5 goals next game in the first, breaks his leg, plays 5 minutes with a broken leg, lets in another goal and THEN...... babs plays goalie himself.
You wont see Ozzy anymore, it is Jimmy even if the ship sinks....

but to answer the question.. YES put Ozzy in! ! ! ! thats what i would like but it wont happen. ( hope to eat my own words )

Edited by HelmerFan, 18 April 2010 - 11:41 PM.


#125 gcom007

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Posted 18 April 2010 - 11:51 PM

I say Howard even if we go down. The only way I'd agree to pull Howard is if he gets absolutely annhilated and you can honestly look and say "he's done", much like Legace. He had that 'deer in the headlights' look and you knew he was cooked. Howard hasn't shown that to me at all. The first goal took 4 chances to score and the defense allowed that one. The second goal was a total lack of effort by the wings. The third goal makes me think Lidstrom WILL retire after this year. I can't say I've ever seen Lidstrom get totally owned on a play like that one. The fourth goal is a bad goal by Howard, no denying that. Still not enough in my mind to pull him.

The wings are not playing 60 minutes. Even in game 2 there were lapses. Game 1 was ridiculous, and Game 3 was even worse.

What I don't understand is, WHY? Why can't the wings find the effort for a full game? What the hell? They were pulling this in the late stages of last playoff. It's like they think because of what they accomplished that it will all work out, but they forget to put the effort in.

I think we will win on Tuesday, but we won't if we don't play with desperation.


Howard gave up a huge rebound that lead to multiple shots, and the initial shot went right into his glove. That's on Howard, no way around it, and it's a back-breaker of a goal to give up 30 seconds in. The second goal wasn't a horrible goal, but it was utterly terrible timing, and it wasn't far removed from soft. The 3rd goal was not his fault at all. The 4th goal was soft. Howard even admitted that 3 of the goals were blatantly his fault.

All year long, people have been saying that Howard's strong play gives the team confidence. What do you think this weak play from Howard has done to the teams confidence?

Again, how do you think the team feels when the goalie gives up a crap rebound leading to a goal 30 seconds in to game 3 after 2 shaky games that make up the entirety of Howard's playoff experience? If you can say that the team plays better in front of Howard because of his strong play in the regular season, how is it not reasonable to suggest that the team is looking less confident as Howard has looked less confident?

And don't get me wrong, I am absolutely not a Howard hater, and the damn writers were writing this about the Wings and Howard after he struggled to hold a lead in game 2, let alone today's mess.

At the end of the day, I see a rookie goalie who's learning the hard way what it takes to win in the playoffs. He's shown thus far that he hasn't learned what it takes to make it happen yet in the playoffs. That's okay. I wasn't one of the people feeling like he had to be a superstar hero in his rookie year, and I don't like the kid any less or think any less of him for this. I think he's still got plenty of potential to come out of this in the coming seasons and develop into a strong playoff goalie.

But I'll be damned if I care so little about losing that I'd be willing to watch Howard blow this series just because he "got us here." I don't give a s*** who "got us here." I care about winning. I think Howard would agree with me. I think it's one of the stupidestf****** things in the world to say "we win or lose with Howard." I'm sorry, but I'm a Red Wings fan more than I'm a fan of any individual player, and if a guys not getting it done, you've got to do what it takes to see if the next guy can.

Sometimes you've got to shake things up to get a teams attention, especially after a goalie throws things off. Everyone involved with the team knows that Howard's been huge for us this year, and everyone knows he's a rookie and it takes time for most guys to develop. Just as Osgood had to sit in the regular season, Howard may need to sit in the playoffs to let the veteran who knows how to handle the pressure of the big games do his thing. And Howard might learn a thing or two in the process.

If Howard can't give this team a chance to win (he hasn't thus far), they need to see if Osgood can pull off another "miracle," or just continue to be the strong playoff goalie that he's always been. It's no knock on Howard, it's no grudge and there's most certainly no bias to it. I like Jimmy Howard a lot.

But more than anything, I just want to win.
-Elliot...does not panic.

#126 Raptor1116

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 12:08 AM

How do you know? How could you possibly know?


Why is it assumed that Osgood will be ok. Why do you think that the team will automatically play better in front of Ozzie when the opposite has happened all year?

I'm an Osgood fan, always have been. Hell, I've been wearing my Osgood jersey for 14 years, but there is absolutely no way we can go to him. I hate when people say "look at the past two years, he turned it on in the playoffs". I won't argue that isn't true, but there's no guarantee he will turn it on this year. He's getting old, players decline as they get older, and I can't justify playing a 37 year old guy in the playoffs who gave up countless weak goals in the regular season (worse than last year imo) and couldn't even be counted on to give Jimmy a break.

Howard is the future, he has to learn to play through adversity. If we yank him now, or at some point during game 4, he will not be able to grow. Especially since the guy who would be replacing him did nothing to deserve a single minute of playoff time this year.


You're right. I don't "know" Howard is tired. I don't "know" Ozzie would be able to turn it on. If you play that game no one knows anything.

Here's what I do know, 3.7 That is Howard's GAA, and .889 that is Howard's Save % against the 24th ranked offense in the NHL, and an uncanny ability to give up untimely goals.

I'm not buying that Howard is the future, I think the future just played his first season in the AHL this year. Howard has not made great strides in my eyes in the areas he needs to correct. He is the Human Pinball Machine.

As amazingly unfair it would be to Ozzie to throw him in Game 4 after only playing in 2 games in 2010 (thanks babs) I would rather go down swinging with the Vet than doing nothing with the rookie. Ozzie could not play any worse.

#127 RedLightGoesOn

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 12:12 AM

I thought after winning game 2 that Howard would settle down and be more confident. He is not. He is shaky, and half the time does not know where the puck is and the other half he is out of position. The rest of the Wings can play like s***, but he has to stop letting in goals like he does and when he does. He needed to step it up and he could not. I know he is feeling like s*** today, but we have to win. Had he not let in that 4th one in I think the Wings would have come back and won the game.

I am tired of the defense hung him out to dry remarks. He should have made saves all series long that he did not. Just because our defense f***ed up here and there doesn't make it ok for him to let a goal in. In the playoffs its his role to step it up and make a big save to keep his boys in it.

Ozzie could not play any worse.

THIS

Edited by RedLightGoesOn, 19 April 2010 - 12:13 AM.

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#128 Carman

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 12:15 AM

Detroit does turn on their goalies insanely quickly.

#129 gcom007

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 12:18 AM

Detroit does turn on their goalies insanely quickly.


I just want to note that as adamant as I am about going to Osgood if Howard continues as he has in Game 4, I'm by no means any less of a Howard supporter and believer. Unlike many around here, I get that guys can't be expected to do it all in theirf****** ROOKIE (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) SEASONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (!!!!!!!!!!!!)

I know that's totally insane to not expect rookies to perform like legends, but, umm, sorry, for, umm, thinking with some perspective...
-Elliot...does not panic.

#130 Carman

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 12:20 AM

I just want to note that as adamant as I am about going to Osgood if Howard continues as he has in Game 4, I'm by no means any less of a Howard supporter and believer. Unlike many around here, I get that guys can't be expected to do it all in theirf****** ROOKIE (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) SEASONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (!!!!!!!!!!!!)

I know that's totally insane to not expect rookies to perform like legends, but, umm, sorry, for, umm, thinking with some perspective...


I don't mind your posts to be honest, it's just when people start talking like this.

I'm not buying that Howard is the future, I think the future just played his first season in the AHL this year. Howard has not made great strides in my eyes in the areas he needs to correct. He is the Human Pinball Machine.


And then saying Osgood could not play any worse. Which no one knows.

#131 Raptor1116

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 12:28 AM

I have never been a Howard fan. All season I've seen the same mistakes. He needs a lot more work and honestly he should not have played as much this season as he did. He should be watching Ozzie this year from the bench, and then next year he should have gotten his first taste of the playoffs.

Maybe Jimmy will prove us calling for Ozzie wrong in Game 4, sure hope he does, but from his play in the first 3 games I don't see it happening.

#132 Carman

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 12:30 AM

I have never been a Howard fan. All season I've seen the same mistakes. He needs a lot more work and honestly he should not have played as much this season as he did. He should be watching Ozzie this year from the bench, and then next year he should have gotten his first taste of the playoffs.

Maybe Jimmy will prove us calling for Ozzie wrong in Game 4, sure hope he does, but from his play in the first 3 games I don't see it happening.


Yeah Jimmy was so bad...

Man, this town is crazy when it comes to goalies.

#133 gcom007

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 12:31 AM

I don't mind your posts to be honest, it's just when people start talking like this.



And then saying Osgood could not play any worse. Which no one knows.


Concur. Very much so. I think Osgood's own "supporters" you could say are preparing for the worst as opposed to thinking with some perspective. I think they're thinking that we very well might see Osgood soon, which is I think far closer to a reality than some think. But in recognizing that rust is there, they're preparing their arguments of defense already. I'm not going to do that, because year after year, people think of all new ways to count the guy out, and somehow he always finds a way to come through. Sure, he may not (but I'm not going to go into defense mode now after all I've seen from him through the years), and Howard may get a shut-out in the next game, but If****** don't give a s*** either way so long as we start winning ASAP.

WIN!!!!!!!!!!

I don't really care how.

Justf****** win.
-Elliot...does not panic.

#134 crotty99

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 12:34 AM


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Thanks TeeMan!


#135 Howard He Do It?!

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 04:55 AM

Not really a "fan" of any player on the team. But I have seen your replies. You will stop at anything to give a quick jab towards Osgood. You would think he would have shut up people like you after all these years. Guess not, though. Shoot 'em while their down. I guess you may have forgotten that Osgood played, cold...and rusty...agaist a hot Philly team. Not to mention they are playing desperate to make the play-offs and also are a high scoring team. He only let in 3 goals. So I think he could get it done once he gets warmed up. All he needs is 1 period.

Seriously though, I believe you, and like a few others, would rather see the Wings fail in the 1st round to get Howard some experience than the possiblity Osgood taking this team to another possible cup run. And nobody here knows if he can do it or not...Christ I just wish the fans would just root for the team than an individual.

This year is different than the years previous. Osgood didn't get 45 starts and has played half the minutes he did last year. I'm not jabbing anybody, nice try though. I'm telling the truth. We cannot expect Osgood to come in like years past and "flip the playoff switch" on half the playing time. So you're not going to sit there and act like Ozzie should have "shut me up." If Ozzie had 45 starts then you could use that line, but the situation is completely different and a comparison cannot be made.

Being a goaltender in Detroit is like being the quarterback of the Detroit Lions. You are going to get blamed for almost every loss and fans are going to ride you hard. It's part of the job.

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#136 Howard He Do It?!

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 05:06 AM

You know that I'm not any sort of a Howard hater. But you know, this is Phoenix and he's looked rough. Can you imagine if we were playing Chicago? Like I said, Osgood very well may be too rusty to pull it off again, but if Howard can't get it together in game 4, you might as well give Osgood a chance. It's not as if he's been injured. He's been practicing. He's not wholly cold. I think in the context of his long career, but especially the last couple years, that Osgood has earned a chance if Howard continues to struggle.

And just as I said earlier, you still learn from the bench. Osgood learned plenty watching Vernon win that first Cup. Sure, he played for only two rings, but that doesn't minimize being a part of winning that 3rd ring. That's why I have no problem with Howard watching. He's still going to learn, and to me, you can "earn your ring" as well as the next guy by watching and learning from the bench.

You're right. This is Phoenix, the #4 seed in the Western Conference. A team that has been consistently good all year and been able to grind out wins. Don't let those past futile years cloud your judgment. It's about this year and this year the Coyotes are one of the best teams in the West.

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#137 Wings_Dynasty

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 05:16 AM

If Babcock decided to switch, he would need to run full practices today and before the game to get Oz up to speed. I mean FULL practices, 5 on 5 with Howie at the other end.

Would I be comfortable with Ozzie in after a long break? No.

Do I think he is capable of saving our asses like he did in 08? Yes.


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#138 John Marvin Murphy

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 05:17 AM

Start howard and put in Ozzy if it gets bad.

It's Howards job to lose, so best of luck to him.

OZZY OZZY OZZY OZZY OZZY OZZY OZZY OZZY OZZY.

#139 SouthernWingsFan

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 07:13 AM

^ This above.

I haven't read the posts in this thread, probably don't want to because of natural pissiness after a favorite team losing a playoff game and the nutjobs who are completely against Osgood without much logic whatsoever.

If Howard played awful that'd be one thing, but I think it's too early to pull the plug on him. He's given up some goals (last goal irritated me - the brainfart between him and Krownall was upsetting obviously but those things happen to the best of people sometimes) but it's not like he's been absolutely dreadful.

Like with past goalies, of course it helps if they steal a game/two, but in losses usually it's a combination of fault of them and shaky defense. Can't fully blame Howard, can't fully let him off the hook either.

If he lets in a deflating goal or two in the next game early, I say make the switch. I have all the confidence in Osgood given what he has accomplished in the recent past postseasons, even though his pads are probably filled with dust right now from inactivity. Right now though, this is Howard's still.

Howard :thumbup:
Osgood :thumbup:

#140 b.shanafan14

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 07:29 AM

Howard gave up a huge rebound that lead to multiple shots, and the initial shot went right into his glove. That's on Howard, no way around it, and it's a back-breaker of a goal to give up 30 seconds in. The second goal wasn't a horrible goal, but it was utterly terrible timing, and it wasn't far removed from soft. The 3rd goal was not his fault at all. The 4th goal was soft. Howard even admitted that 3 of the goals were blatantly his fault.

All year long, people have been saying that Howard's strong play gives the team confidence. What do you think this weak play from Howard has done to the teams confidence?

Again, how do you think the team feels when the goalie gives up a crap rebound leading to a goal 30 seconds in to game 3 after 2 shaky games that make up the entirety of Howard's playoff experience? If you can say that the team plays better in front of Howard because of his strong play in the regular season, how is it not reasonable to suggest that the team is looking less confident as Howard has looked less confident?

And don't get me wrong, I am absolutely not a Howard hater, and the damn writers were writing this about the Wings and Howard after he struggled to hold a lead in game 2, let alone today's mess.

At the end of the day, I see a rookie goalie who's learning the hard way what it takes to win in the playoffs. He's shown thus far that he hasn't learned what it takes to make it happen yet in the playoffs. That's okay. I wasn't one of the people feeling like he had to be a superstar hero in his rookie year, and I don't like the kid any less or think any less of him for this. I think he's still got plenty of potential to come out of this in the coming seasons and develop into a strong playoff goalie.

But I'll be damned if I care so little about losing that I'd be willing to watch Howard blow this series just because he "got us here." I don't give a s*** who "got us here." I care about winning. I think Howard would agree with me. I think it's one of the stupidestf****** things in the world to say "we win or lose with Howard." I'm sorry, but I'm a Red Wings fan more than I'm a fan of any individual player, and if a guys not getting it done, you've got to do what it takes to see if the next guy can.

Sometimes you've got to shake things up to get a teams attention, especially after a goalie throws things off. Everyone involved with the team knows that Howard's been huge for us this year, and everyone knows he's a rookie and it takes time for most guys to develop. Just as Osgood had to sit in the regular season, Howard may need to sit in the playoffs to let the veteran who knows how to handle the pressure of the big games do his thing. And Howard might learn a thing or two in the process.

If Howard can't give this team a chance to win (he hasn't thus far), they need to see if Osgood can pull off another "miracle," or just continue to be the strong playoff goalie that he's always been. It's no knock on Howard, it's no grudge and there's most certainly no bias to it. I like Jimmy Howard a lot.

But more than anything, I just want to win.

I agree with everything. I just want round two the Cup. No matter what it takes to get there. The more and more I think about it, as much as I think throwing Osgood in now would be a disservice to the veteran letting him come in cold and go down with Howard's ship while at the same time denying Howard the must of every young goaltender not named Dryden or Roy, a playoff disappointment, I think Osgood would relish the opportunity and I think the Wings would do their best to insulate Ozzy knowing how rusty he is.

Even if Osgood isn't great in Game 4, at least he'd be at home and we all know JLA would be pumping him up to no end. I think this team needs to be shaken up like they were in 2008. Above all else they need to win. The organization and Babcock especially needs to make a statement that whatever tools are at their disposal they'll use them.

I think we all know that there is no way Howard won't start in Game 4 and I agree with him being given one more chance, but I think Babcock has to have the balls to have a very short leash. Goal in the first two minutes? Ozzy. Goal right after a Wings goal? Ozzy. Softy in the first period? Ozzy. Really, anything short of a solid goal against in the first 10 minutes of play. It gives the kid and the defense in front of him one last chance to prove they believe in eachother and gives the team enough time to right the ship for Ozzy should things come to that. Going with Osgood to start the third period with the Wings reeling is the last thing this team needs.

Give Howard another chance, I really think the kid could come out and have a stellar game, turning the whole thing around. But its time for him to prove it and the team to prove they are behind him. But if its apparent that isn't the case, Babcock needs to be quick. I said going into the 2008 playoffs that Hasek didn't have what it took to get the job done anymore and that it was Ozzy or bust. The fortunes really had to align in that scenario, literally the ONLY way I could foresee a goaltender change happening: 2-0 series lead with shaky goaltending that eventually loses the next two games, give the next goaltender a chance to play a period on the road make some saves and then come home for a best of 3.

This is not the ideal situation that was, so I believe we'll know by the start of the 2nd period Tuesday whether the Wings are going to win or lose with Howard. I hope the former, but am understanding if its the latter. I just hope that if things continue to fall apart Babcock has the conviction to turn to Ozzy.

EDIT: correction :hehe:

Edited by b.shanafan14, 19 April 2010 - 07:31 AM.






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