13 + 40 = Obvious!

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

When it was 3-2 I thought to myself "Well, he would be smart to do it now." When it was 4-2 I thought to myself "Well, he HAS to do it now!" And then he didn't do it.

Why is Mike Babcock so against putting two of the most talented, dominant players in the NHL on the same line in a 5 on 5 situation? Does he think that the 2nd line will be weak with 5 minutes to go in the game? I don't understand when you are in a situation where you almost have to win, you decide to play with the lines in the absolute opposite way than the way you should (moving Cleary up, Homer down, and putting Flip with Pavel and Franzen).

Why? With 5 minutes left it is the BEST time to put them together. The opposing bench wouldn't have the time to match them defensively and would be even more concerned with covering 2 play-makers instead of one.

Did anyone else feel that Babcock made a huge mistake by not using the not-so-secret weapon when he should have?

[Drake_Marcus 890]

I guess he doesn't want to mess up the chemistry Z's line has right now.

I'd like to see him try: Franzen-Datsyuk-Helm (or Miller) late in the game just to add a faster element to that line.

[crotty99 302]

When it was 3-2 I thought to myself "Well, he would be smart to do it now." When it was 4-2 I thought to myself "Well, he HAS to do it now!" And then he didn't do it.

Why is Mike Babcock so against putting two of the most talented, dominant players in the NHL on the same line in a 5 on 5 situation? Does he think that the 2nd line will be weak with 5 minutes to go in the game? I don't understand when you are in a situation where you almost have to win, you decide to play with the lines in the absolute opposite way than the way you should (moving Cleary up, Homer down, and putting Flip with Pavel and Franzen).

Why? With 5 minutes left it is the BEST time to put them together. The opposing bench wouldn't have the time to match them defensively and would be even more concerned with covering 2 play-makers instead of one.

Did anyone else feel that Babcock made a huge mistake by not using the not-so-secret weapon when he should have?

I wouldn't mind putting them together for emergency situations, if we can't get anything else going.

I do not feel however that a second line of Bert Flip and Mule would be strong enough for a whole game, unless mule gets it going. I remember him and flip (+hossa) had some good chemistry together for awhile. This is assuming you'd be swapping Mule with Z?

Edited April 19, 2010 by crotty99

[lb3000 1]

The real problem is that the team is playing pretty poor defensively. So regardless of who gets the pairing with Z and Dats, the 2nd line could be a potential defensive nightmare. I would like to see Flip, Dats and Z but the potential of Bert, Franzen and Homer kinda scares me unless they were paired with Lids and B Raf. But when you are down 3-2 or 4-2 in the 3rd period in a playoff game you have to do whatever it takes to win.

[titanium2 867]

Did anyone else feel that Babcock made a huge mistake by not using the not-so-secret weapon when he should have?

Are you sure it's a secret weapon?

(I'm just going to copy this paragraph from another thread). In 07-08, I believe that the Wings started with Pav and Z together did they not? That was when Zetterberg set the record for longest streak of games in which he recorded a point. He also looked like he was going to be in the running for the scoring title back then. In that time they were able to build a foundation of chemistry and they could play on separate lines later on but always go back to one line if necessary. Last year and this year they started on separate lines and when they played on the same line they didn't look all that great and a part of it I think is because they didn't build that same foundation early on. We always think that you could just put them together at any time and they'll produce but I think the chemistry between those two still needs a refresher or sharpening to start the season, not something to be hastily called upon in an emergency.

(And then add some more thoughts on the subject). Also, the dynamic of same line versus individual line is truly different from their perspective. As each of them center their own lines they get to play with the puck a lot more as opposed to when they are on the same line and have to share it. Even Zetterberg admitted that having Pav as a linemate is still very much a process that requires adjustment. Taking faceoffs, skating through the center of the ice, being the primary puckhandler and playmaker are aspects in which both guys feel a lot of pride. In 07-08 they were able to build a foundation in which they could compromise. Last year with the addition of Hossa they could start their own lines and remain that way for seemingly much more significant periods of time. They got used to doing things a certain way and not having to share as much. For this year the story is pretty similar. At this point, a huge reason for not reuniting the Euro Twins is simply that they haven't spent much time together on the same line and that it would take time to recreate the chemistry they once had; time that the Wings probably don't have if they want to win.

Hopefully I'm wrong and that Babs can just throw them out there and they'll produce consistently. But based on what we saw last year and this year it seems as if that just won't work all that great.

Wow. If anybody actually reads all of what I just wrote then I really thank you for taking the time. Hopefully it makes sense.

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

My opinion clarified:

Datsyuk and Zetterberg should have their own lines. Spread the wealth in order to facilitate more than one good scoring line.

HOWEVER!!!

If you are in Game 3 of the first round, down by 2 goals, and have 5 minutes left to tie it up, PUT THE BEST LINE YOU CAN ON THE ICE AND DOUBLE SHIFT THEM!!!

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstrom/Franzen is the best line we have. And when we pull our goalie Franzen and Homer are both out there with Z and Pav. Send Bert-Flip-Cleary out there when the top line needs a 45 second rest. THEN SEND THEM OUT AGAIN!!!

[Finnish Wing 110]

I guess he doesn't want to mess up the chemistry Z's line has right now.

I'd like to see him try: Franzen-Datsyuk-Helm (or Miller) late in the game just to add a faster element to that line.

Jake Ryan has obviously stolen your account or something.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

When it was 3-2 I thought to myself "Well, he would be smart to do it now." When it was 4-2 I thought to myself "Well, he HAS to do it now!" And then he didn't do it.

Why is Mike Babcock so against putting two of the most talented, dominant players in the NHL on the same line in a 5 on 5 situation? Does he think that the 2nd line will be weak with 5 minutes to go in the game? I don't understand when you are in a situation where you almost have to win, you decide to play with the lines in the absolute opposite way than the way you should (moving Cleary up, Homer down, and putting Flip with Pavel and Franzen).

Why? With 5 minutes left it is the BEST time to put them together. The opposing bench wouldn't have the time to match them defensively and would be even more concerned with covering 2 play-makers instead of one.

Did anyone else feel that Babcock made a huge mistake by not using the not-so-secret weapon when he should have?

Normally I'd be with you, but Zetterberg and Datsyuk together this year hasn't actually been all that great overall, and it's not like the separate lines have just gone bone dry in production these three games. Other than Abdelkader's goal, I think all the scoring so far has come from Datsyuk and Zetterberg's lines.

Offense isn't so much the problem like now, it's more a combination of bad defense and backbreaking goals.

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

Normally I'd be with you, but Zetterberg and Datsyuk together this year hasn't actually been all that great overall, and it's not like the separate lines have just gone bone dry in production these three games. Other than Abdelkader's goal, I think all the scoring so far has come from Datsyuk and Zetterberg's lines.

Offense isn't so much the problem like now, it's more a combination of bad defense and backbreaking goals.

I agree, they haven't been as awesome this season. I am willing to sacrifice 1 dominant scoring line for 2 good scoring lines. They are unfamiliar to each other except for when they are on the PP when they have Homer in front and 1 less player to worry about. However, with 5 minutes left and down by 2, something needs to happen. Defense and goaltending no longer matter at that point. They need to both be on the ice doing one of two things: getting open or looking for where the open man is.

[KrazyGangsta 79]

My opinion clarified:

Datsyuk and Zetterberg should have their own lines. Spread the wealth in order to facilitate more than one good scoring line.

HOWEVER!!!

If you are in Game 3 of the first round, down by 2 goals, and have 5 minutes left to tie it up, PUT THE BEST LINE YOU CAN ON THE ICE AND DOUBLE SHIFT THEM!!!

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstrom/Franzen is the best line we have. And when we pull our goalie Franzen and Homer are both out there with Z and Pav. Send Bert-Flip-Cleary out there when the top line needs a 45 second rest. THEN SEND THEM OUT AGAIN!!!

I agree with Dynasty

[stevkrause 1,247]

Although I see the intrigue, Flip and Hank have been playing SO well together, I can't fathom breaking them up... with that said, Bert has looked a little weak these past couple of games and I've always loved Franzen and Z's chemistry... I would like to see this:

Filppula-Zetterberg-Franzen

Cleary-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Abdelkader-Helm-Eaves

Bertuzzi-Draper-Miller

at times rolling in either Z or Dats with Bert and Miller and sitting Draper a little bit...

I really like Abdelkader-Helm-Eaves, this line could really make Phoenix make some mistakes and wear their defense down.

just my 2 cents...

[misplacedWingFan 0]

it is not that at all...the Wings just have to start skating after the puck and playing like they want to win the frickin game!!!

At this point, the Yotes look like they want it more. Plain and simple.

[cupforwings 138]

They should put Franzen with Zetterberg and Filppula... One shift last game and they already had a goal... I was hoping he would do that the whole game, looking at their playoff success... I think Babs knows that Zetterberg can still produce without players like Hossa or Franzen, and still be good defensively... But when Hank plays with Franzen, it really looks like they have some chemistry there.. Then put Bert with Dats and Homer, as that was working earlier in the season and Bert wants to play a more playmaking role anyway.

Edited April 19, 2010 by cupforwings

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

2 times in the last 5 minutes of the game yesterday all bertuzzi had to do was raise the puck and it's 4-4 going into overtime. Z should have had 4 assists and came away with 2. either he needs to see if flip can bury them, or he needs a linemate like dats or franzen. if they don't put dats and Z on together, they should move bert down and try eaves with flip and Z.

[stevkrause 1,247]

They should put Franzen with Zetterberg and Filppula... One shift last game and they already had a goal... I was hoping he would do that the whole game, looking at their playoff success... I think Babs knows that Zetterberg can still produce without players like Hossa or Franzen, and still be good defensively... But when Hank plays with Franzen, it really looks like they have some chemistry there.. Then put Bert with Dats and Homer, as that was working earlier in the season and Bert wants to play a more playmaking role anyway.

Agreed 100% on the Flip-Z-Mule line - they had AMAZING chemistry and their style's compliment each other VERY well...

[Joseph Franks 17]

When it was 3-2 I thought to myself "Well, he would be smart to do it now." When it was 4-2 I thought to myself "Well, he HAS to do it now!" And then he didn't do it.

Why is Mike Babcock so against putting two of the most talented, dominant players in the NHL on the same line in a 5 on 5 situation? Does he think that the 2nd line will be weak with 5 minutes to go in the game? I don't understand when you are in a situation where you almost have to win, you decide to play with the lines in the absolute opposite way than the way you should (moving Cleary up, Homer down, and putting Flip with Pavel and Franzen).

Why? With 5 minutes left it is the BEST time to put them together. The opposing bench wouldn't have the time to match them defensively and would be even more concerned with covering 2 play-makers instead of one.

Did anyone else feel that Babcock made a huge mistake by not using the not-so-secret weapon when he should have?

Hands down agree. Throughout a game, having them separate is fine. Beneficial even. But when you're playing balls to the wall....we've seen Datsyuk and Zetterberg run a few shows in the past. When you're down, it becomes clear that the current "Game plan" hasn't worked so far.

If you run up an alley in Call of Duty and die 5 times in a row, tendency is to not run up that alley again. But, the Wings seem to do this a lot these days.

I understand that they remain separate because they produce two generally very effective lines, but when you're losing....you're losing. That's the best time to try to put all of your best on the ice at once, and see if maybe they can squeak out a goal. Line "Matching" goes out the window in the last 3-5 minutes of a game where you're down by two goals. At that point, you need to be trying to get your best guys on the ice as much as you possibly can....especially in a situation like game three where we had home ice advantage. Even when Phoenix tossed out a 3rd line near the end, instead of just tossing out our top 5 guys and seeing what happened, we tried to stick to the system......the same one that was already losing us the game.

Maybe because it was only game 3. I know Bab's got desperate and tried putting them out together a bit during some of our losses to Pittsburgh....but now I wonder....

Maybe too little too late?

Babcock will do it. Just perhaps, he should do it a bit earlier in losing games.

[cupforwings 138]

Hands down agree. Throughout a game, having them separate is fine. Beneficial even. But when you're playing balls to the wall....we've seen Datsyuk and Zetterberg run a few shows in the past. When you're down, it becomes clear that the current "Game plan" hasn't worked so far.

If you run up an alley in Call of Duty and die 5 times in a row, tendency is to not run up that alley again. But, the Wings seem to do this a lot these days.

I understand that they remain separate because they produce two generally very effective lines, but when you're losing....you're losing. That's the best time to try to put all of your best on the ice at once, and see if maybe they can squeak out a goal. Line "Matching" goes out the window in the last 3-5 minutes of a game where you're down by two goals. At that point, you need to be trying to get your best guys on the ice as much as you possibly can....especially in a situation like game three where we had home ice advantage. Even when Phoenix tossed out a 3rd line near the end, instead of just tossing out our top 5 guys and seeing what happened, we tried to stick to the system......the same one that was already losing us the game.

Maybe because it was only game 3. I know Bab's got desperate and tried putting them out together a bit during some of our losses to Pittsburgh....but now I wonder....

Maybe too little too late?

Babcock will do it. Just perhaps, he should do it a bit earlier in losing games.

I agree with this.. I think Babcock still feels it's too early to switch the line-up, especially after they had a pretty good game 2 performance... But If they have a rough 1st or 2nd period tomorrow, I think he will make some changes... and as a last resort, he will put Dats an Z together with Homer.... and at really last resort, he will put Dats, Z, and the Mule together... i just hope he makes his decisions before its too late.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

I'd hold off on this unless the Red Wings come out flat and/or fall behind in game four. Zetterberg has been hands-down the Wings best player so far with Filppula close behind. Their line with Bertuzzi has accounted for a good portion of the Red Wings offense. Pavel and Mule need to step it up and get some goals quickly or this series will be done rather quickly.

The thing about Babcock that bothers me sometimes is he waits too long to make changes, which again goes back to him being stubborn as a coach. Don't get me wrong, I think a great deal of him as a coach but he's as stubborn as they come. He needs to treat tomorrow night like game four last year in Anaheim - the Red Wings gave up a quick goal and he right away switched up the lines which worked brilliantly.

I hope the Red Wings don't need a spark like changing lines to get them motivated in a must-win game on their home ice. Let's just hope some of the best players on the team start playing like it.

[Firehawk 305]

It doesn't matter the line combo. The effort defensively is not there. You saw what they could do when they were actually trying. Phx looked like a deer in the headlights, holding on for dear life. When the wings want to, they can dominate this Phx team. But when they slip up or take a shift off, Phx is right there to pounce, and they've done a very good job of playing tight on the wings and outworking us.

I have got to think we will muster the effort and win tomorrow. I just can't imagine this team not doing that.

How is Phx 28th in offense in the league? That is amazing.