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Guest blueadams

Off-Day: Here's what I want to see next season

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I know that a lot of you don't like off-season posts during the post-season...but it's an off-day...I have fun doing this...and plenty of other posters have fun talking about it too. If you don't like it, just move on.

First of all, change in (or alteration of) general philosophy - forget about this running 4 lines b.s. In the salary cap-nhl, if you want to have success, you throw out your best six scorers on your top two lines, and you fill the rest of the roster with grinders. So...I'm going to leave this alone until I chalk up the lines below.

Second of all, personnel changes -

Bring back:

UFA's:

#1) Lidstrom (7.5 mil) - He'll be back as our captain at a much lower price, probably a 1-2 year deal.

#2) Holmstrom (2.3 mil) - He'll be back at a slightly lower price, probably 1 year.

#3) Bertuzzi (1.5 mil) - I know he's easy to hate, but in all objective reality, he gives us everything on the ice that mule gives us...but to a lesser degree...and one that is fairly proportional to their difference in price.

RFA's:

#1) Abdelkader (0.9 mil) - no question about it, slight raise.

#2) Helm (0.6 mil) - ditto.

#3) Miller (0.5 mil) - hopefully no one makes him a big offer.

#4) Eaves (0.5 mil) - hopefully no one makes him a big offer.

#5) Meech (0.5 mil) - shouldn't be hard to keep, nice seventh defenseman that can play forward in a jam.

KHL?:

#1) Hudler (2.9 mil...I checked) - all signs point to yes. The cap-breaks we're getting from Lidstrom, to a lesser extent Homer, and some of these guys that we're losing below should give us enough space to fit him in.

Do not bring back:

#1) Williams (1.5 mil) - Doesn't fit into my plans.

#2) Lilja (1.3 mil) - No room for him with Kindl coming up.

#2) Maltby 0.9 mil) - Good time to step down.

#4) Lebda (0.7 mil) - No room for him with Kindl. And I'd rather have a cheaper and more versatile Meech as my seventh defenseman.

Lines:

FORWARDS:

#1) Hudler-Datsyuk-Franzen - Datsyuk and Zetterberg are our two best all-around players. They're going to be centering the top two lines. I'm not putting them together at even strength. Hudler is the best secondary scorer that we're going to have, better than Flip. Him and Pav on the same line together will be nasty. They'll score a lot of goals. Mule is our best "physical presence guy." At even strength, he's on this top line.

#2) Filppula-Zetterberg-Bertuzzi - Hank in the middle, second best all-around player. Flip on his wing, second best secondary scorer. Bert up front, second best physical presence. Keep in mind that these can shift as players gel. Mule can be swapped for Bert. Flip can be swapped for Huds. I don't really care what the combinations are...so let's not waste time arguing about the combos. All I know is that those six guys are our top six guys.

#3) Abdelkader-Helm-Cleary - This is kind of physical third line that makes teams like pittsburgh so hard to beat, and that we lack. Helm's a great, energetic, high pressure, turnover-creating nuisance that can center this line. Abby brings a lot of the same things at a much larger size, and with more scoring potential. Cleary seems to have sort of lost his scoring touch. I've got no beef with him dedicating himself to again being a great, physical defensive standout...that adds a little scoring potential to this line as well.

#4) Holmstrom-Miller-Eaves - This fourth line's not gonna get much even strength time...but so what...no one else is really trying to do that anymore. It's far from a waste line though. Homer is our first team power play net specialist (along with Pav and Hank, TOGETHER...Huds-Flip-Mule is our second pp unit). It'll be really, really nice to keep him fresh for that role in the playoffs as well!!! And Miller-Eaves are our first line PP killers (probably Helm-Cleary or Abbs as our second pk unit).

13th - Draper - great locker room guy, not a great player. Perfect as the 13th though, as he can slide in for someone nicely at either wing or center. Still a face-off stud in a pinch as well.

DEFENSEMEN:

Lidstrom-Rafalski - Not getting any better, but still one of the better first pairs in the league.

Kronwall-Stuart - Again, probably getting close to their peaks, but still one of the better second pairs in the league.

Kindl-Ericsson - Kindl's up next season, no arguing about it. He probably takes over for Williams on our second team PP as well. Ericsson took a bit of a step back this season...but I still think that he's going to be a solid life-r here. Kindl's offensive abilities might help him settle into his more promising role as a stay-at-home Lidstrom-esque defender as well.

7th - Meech - Not that good, not that bad, still young, versatile, cheap...etc.

GOALIES:

Howard - He had a great regular season...through three games he's given up one (maybe two...one in each of the losses) bad goal...and that's probably less or as many bad goals than Luongo's given up. He's our man next season. No question about it.

Osgood - He's under contract for one more season. He's probably thinking about retirment (in which case we'd have to sign another veteran - I don't think we want to go with a Howard/Larsson combo just yet). But I hope he instead chooses to take pride in the important role of the backup veteran who helps groom his successor.

Edited by blueadams
Zetts and stevieisthebest like this

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YES.

Thanks blueadams, your line threads help the Red Wings to victory and your absence has been troubling.

As for the actually post I don't disagree with a whole lot the cap is hard to predict the raises and everything I'd probably change a few numbers but that's nitpicking.

It's going to be interesting what happens with our D, Kindl doesn't have many options left, but the Wings really like what Lilja can bring as a 5-6th defenseman.

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Another Blueadams line thread so drink up.

To be serious Hudler can only make what arbitration gave him which is 2 years at 5.75 millon. All RFAs get a raise in their next contract (I'm not sure what the minimum amount is) so Eaves will be making more that 500k, and Abdelkader is a RFA.

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I know that a lot of you don't like off-season posts during the post-season...but it's an off-day...I have fun doing this...and plenty of other posters have fun talking about it too. If you don't like it, just move on.

First of all, change in (or alteration of) general philosophy - forget about this running 4 lines b.s. In the salary cap-nhl, if you want to have success, you throw out your best six scorers on your top two lines, and you fill the rest of the roster with grinders. So...I'm going to leave this alone until I chalk up the lines below.

Second of all, personnel changes -

Bring back:

UFA's:

#1) Lidstrom (7.5 mil) - He'll be back as our captain at a much lower price, probably a 1-2 year deal.

#2) Holmstrom (2.3 mil) - He'll be back at a slightly lower price, probably 1 year.

#3) Bertuzzi (1.5 mil) - I know he's easy to hate, but in all objective reality, he gives us everything on the ice that mule gives us...but to a lesser degree...and one that is fairly proportional to their difference in price.

RFA's:

#1) Helm (0.6 mil) - no question about it, slight raise.

#2) Miller (0.5 mil) - hopefully no one makes him a big offer.

#3) Eaves (0.5 mil) - hopefully no one makes him a big offer.

#4) Meech (0.5 mil) - shouldn't be hard to keep, nice seventh defenseman that can play forward in a jam.

KHL?:

#1) Hudler (3.5 mil) - all signs point to yes. The cap-breaks we're getting from Lidstrom, to a lesser extent Homer, and some of these guys that we're losing below should give us enough space to fit him in.

Do not bring back:

#1) Williams (1.5 mil) - Doesn't fit into my plans.

#2) Lilja (1.3 mil) - No room for him with Kindl coming up.

#2) Maltby 0.9 mil) - Good time to step down.

#4) Lebda (0.7 mil) - No room for him with Kindl. And I'd rather have a cheaper and more versatile Meech as my seventh defenseman.

Lines:

FORWARDS:

#1) Hudler-Datsyuk-Franzen - Datsyuk and Zetterberg are our two best all-around players. They're going to be centering the top two lines. I'm not putting them together at even strength. Hudler is the best secondary scorer that we're going to have, better than Flip. Him and Pav on the same line together will be nasty. They'll score a lot of goals. Mule is our best "physical presence guy." At even strength, he's on this top line.

#2) Filppula-Zetterberg-Bertuzzi - Hank in the middle, second best all-around player. Flip on his wing, second best secondary scorer. Bert up front, second best physical presence. Keep in mind that these can shift as players gel. Mule can be swapped for Bert. Flip can be swapped for Huds. I don't really care what the combinations are...so let's not waste time arguing about the combos. All I know is that those six guys are our top six guys.

#3) Abdelkader-Helm-Cleary - This is kind of physical third line that makes teams like pittsburgh so hard to beat, and that we lack. Helm's a great, energetic, high pressure, turnover-creating nuisance that can center this line. Abby brings a lot of the same things at a much larger size, and with more scoring potential. Cleary seems to have sort of lost his scoring touch. I've got no beef with him dedicating himself to again being a great, physical defensive standout...that adds a little scoring potential to this line as well.

#4) Holmstrom-Miller-Eaves - This fourth line's not gonna get much even strength time...but so what...no one else is really trying to do that anymore. It's far from a waste line though. Homer is our first team power play net specialist (along with Pav and Hank, TOGETHER...Huds-Flip-Mule is our second pp unit). It'll be really, really nice to keep him fresh for that role in the playoffs as well!!! And Miller-Eaves are our first line PP killers (probably Helm-Cleary or Abbs as our second pk unit).

13th - Draper - great locker room guy, not a great player. Perfect as the 13th though, as he can slide in for someone nicely at either wing or center. Still a face-off stud in a pinch as well.

DEFENSEMEN:

Lidstrom-Rafalski - Not getting any better, but still one of the better first pairs in the league.

Kronwall-Stuart - Again, probably getting close to their peaks, but still one of the better second pairs in the league.

Kindl-Ericsson - Kindl's up next season, no arguing about it. He probably takes over for Williams on our second team PP as well. Ericsson took a bit of a step back this season...but I still think that he's going to be a solid life-r here. Kindl's offensive abilities might help him settle into his more promising role as a stay-at-home Lidstrom-esque defender as well.

7th - Meech - Not that good, not that bad, still young, versatile, cheap...etc.

GOALIES:

Howard - He had a great regular season...through three games he's given up one (maybe two...one in each of the losses) bad goal...and that's probably less or as many bad goals than Luongo's given up. He's our man next season. No question about it.

Osgood - He's under contract for one more season. He's probably thinking about retirment (in which case we'd have to sign another veteran - I don't think we want to go with a Howard/Larsson combo just yet). But I hope he instead chooses to take pride in the important role of the backup veteran who helps groom his successor.

Nice post,well put together and logical.

Not sure I'd keep Bert,and would probably trade Huds.That's a cap savings of 4.5 mill...pick up a bigger forward who can chip them in as well.

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Holmstrom will be on the first, not the 4th line... Bertuzzi is more likely to be playing on the bottom 6

I really think that it's something of a miracle homer's been able to make it through the entire season as a 1st or 2nd liner without getting injured too badly. Still though, he's been banged up for the entire season and slowed a bit. I don't think he's as good of an even-strength player as Bert. And I think that we would really benefit from having him both available and well rested for the power play in every game and throughout the season.

But with that being said...there's absolutely nothing wrong with swapping Homer in for Bert on the first or second line at any point in a game. It's just that - even as big as he is - Bert's not really the kind of hard-hitting defensive standout that I had in mind for our bottom two lines.

Another Blueadams line thread so drink up.

To be serious Hudler can only make what arbitration gave him which is 2 years at 5.75 millon. All RFAs get a raise in their next contract (I'm not sure what the minimum amount is) so Eaves will be making more that 500k, and Abdelkader is a RFA.

...do you mean 5.75 mil over two years...or 5.75 mil per year, for two years.

the latter seems like a lot. I thought that the KHL team he signed with was giving him 10 mil for 2 yrs (5 mil per year), so I'm guessing its the former.

Edited by blueadams

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...

All RFAs get a raise in their next contract (I'm not sure what the minimum amount is) ...

"A team must extend a "qualifying offer" to its restricted free agent to retain negotiating rights to that player. Players making less than $660,000 must be offered 110 percent of last season's salary. Players making up to $1 million must be offered 105 percent. Players making over $1 million must be offered 100 percent."

Though I'm not sure that means a player necessarily has to get a raise. Leino was an RFA last year, and he took a pay cut. Maybe that was because he spent most of the year in GR, or maybe something else.

Either way, I'm sure Helm, Eaves, and Miller will get raises, if they stay. Abdelkader may depend on how the rest of the playoffs goes for him. But a small raise to 900k doesn't seem out of line.

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Is Huds contract that much at 3.5 million? I thought it was something like 2.7, but I could have been mistaken.

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...do you mean 5.75 mil over two years...or 5.75 mil per year, for two years.

the latter seems like a lot. I thought that the KHL team he signed with was giving him 10 mil for 2 yrs (5 mil per year), so I'm guessing its the former.

the 5.75 is over the 2 years.

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I don't want to get too deep into discussions like this before we know what Lidstrom does. This will be a very different team depending on whether he hangs them up or not.

But my main wishes are that Williams gets SENT FAR FAR AWAY and that Hudler returns.

Quick lines for next year:

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstrom : re-unite this line from the get-go in training camp and let them find their chemistry. We need a dominant top line again.

Hudler-Filppula-Franzen : If I'm not mistaken we had this line in the 07-08 playoffs did we not? Fil always had good chemistry with Hudler and Franzen complements the soft euros with some size.

X-Abdelkader-Cleary : Where "X" is either Bertuzzi or (what I want) a young, speedy winger with something of a scoring touch. I'm thinking someone like Wojtek Wolski or Peter Mueller (good trade for Avs and Yotes) but I'm not sure who is available so I wouldn't be too upset if Bert ended up staying.

Eaves-Helm-Miller : Goes without saying that Miller and Eaves need to stay. This line has speed, physicality, defense, and they could probably chip in some goals.

Draper : Draper can hang around another year, he is a good 13th forward with his experience and versatility. But after next year he has to go.

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I don't want to get too deep into discussions like this before we know what Lidstrom does. This will be a very different team depending on whether he hangs them up or not.

But my main wishes are that Williams gets SENT FAR FAR AWAY and that Hudler returns.

Quick lines for next year:

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstrom : re-unite this line from the get-go in training camp and let them find their chemistry. We need a dominant top line again.

Hudler-Filppula-Franzen : If I'm not mistaken we had this line in the 07-08 playoffs did we not? Fil always had good chemistry with Hudler and Franzen complements the soft euros with some size.

X-Abdelkader-Cleary : Where "X" is either Bertuzzi or (what I want) a young, speedy winger with something of a scoring touch. I'm thinking someone like Wojtek Wolski or Peter Mueller (good trade for Avs and Yotes) but I'm not sure who is available so I wouldn't be too upset if Bert ended up staying.

Eaves-Helm-Miller : Goes without saying that Miller and Eaves need to stay. This line has speed, physicality, defense, and they could probably chip in some goals.

Draper : Draper can hang around another year, he is a good 13th forward with his experience and versatility. But after next year he has to go.

...in general, we seem to be on the same page. but i think that it's going to be hard to sign someone much better than bert for 1.5 mil...and i think it's going to be hard for us to trade for someone that's better than him without giving up anyone we're not willing to.

But really, somehow getting someone like Cleary to play on that line...and setting them up as you did in the above post...that would be IDEAL. Any idea's on how to do it? Or who to get? Is Shane Doan available? lol.

Edited by blueadams

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After seeing how good our PK was once Lilja returned, why wouldn't we bring him back. Meech can be the 14th forward or the 8th defenseman. Kindl, Ericsson, and Lilja can rotate between the 5th and 6th defensive spot.

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...in general, we seem to be on the same page. but i think that it's going to be hard to sign someone much better than bert for 1.5 mil...and i think it's going to be hard for us to trade for someone that's better than him without giving up anyone we're not willing to.

But really, somehow getting someone like Cleary to play on that line...and setting them up as you did in the above post...that would be IDEAL. Any idea's on how to do it? Or who to get? Is Shane Doan available? lol.

True, but he wouldn't have to "much better" than Bert, I'd settle for "much younger" :)

But you're right it's hard to find someone who does more than Bert for the same money. If Lids stays I'm sure Bert will too just because he's cheap.

If Lids retires maybe some of the money cleared up there could go towards getting a decent upgrade over Bert, along with what I'm sure would be a Top 4 d-man.

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Kindl-Ericsson - Kindl's up next season, no arguing about it. He probably takes over for Williams on our second team PP as well. Ericsson took a bit of a step back this season...but I still think that he's going to be a solid life-r here. Kindl's offensive abilities might help him settle into his more promising role as a stay-at-home Lidstrom-esque defender as well.

That is 1 sad pairing if you ask me; these guys will each have a +/- of around -20 each by the end of the reg season...Lilja is def worth the $1.5 million that I'm certain Holland will be offering.

I'm no expert on Kindl, but from what I've been reading he's really nothing special, and a marginal NHL'er.

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That is 1 sad pairing if you ask me; these guys will each have a +/- of around -20 each by the end of the reg season...Lilja is def worth the $1.5 million that I'm certain Holland will be offering.

I'm no expert on Kindl, but from what I've been reading he's really nothing special, and a marginal NHL'er.

I'm not sure that we're going to have enough to resign Lilja after taking on Hudler's contract and giving all those RFA's their raises. And could you provide a source for the Kindl take!? I've heard nothing but positives.

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I don't want to get too deep into discussions like this before we know what Lidstrom does. This will be a very different team depending on whether he hangs them up or not.

But my main wishes are that Williams gets SENT FAR FAR AWAY and that Hudler returns.

Quick lines for next year:

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstrom : re-unite this line from the get-go in training camp and let them find their chemistry. We need a dominant top line again.

Hudler-Filppula-Franzen : If I'm not mistaken we had this line in the 07-08 playoffs did we not? Fil always had good chemistry with Hudler and Franzen complements the soft euros with some size.

X-Abdelkader-Cleary : Where "X" is either Bertuzzi or (what I want) a young, speedy winger with something of a scoring touch. I'm thinking someone like Wojtek Wolski or Peter Mueller (good trade for Avs and Yotes) but I'm not sure who is available so I wouldn't be too upset if Bert ended up staying.

Eaves-Helm-Miller : Goes without saying that Miller and Eaves need to stay. This line has speed, physicality, defense, and they could probably chip in some goals.

Draper : Draper can hang around another year, he is a good 13th forward with his experience and versatility. But after next year he has to go.

Softest 2nd line in the NHL?

Not sure why people keep expecting Bertuzzi to leave, Holland has stated several times in recent months that he plans to re-sign Bert next season. If he accepts another $1.5 mil, you can bet on him being on the roster.

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Softest 2nd line in the NHL?

Not sure why people keep expecting Bertuzzi to leave, Holland has stated several times in recent months that he plans to re-sign Bert next season. If he accepts another $1.5 mil, you can bet on him being on the roster.

agreed.

let the two best defensive centers in the game center their own lines. give them each a secondary scorer, hudler or flip. give them each a physical net presence, mule or bert...or homer, i guess.

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Softest 2nd line in the NHL?

Not sure why people keep expecting Bertuzzi to leave, Holland has stated several times in recent months that he plans to re-sign Bert next season. If he accepts another $1.5 mil, you can bet on him being on the roster.

Franzen may not play like a "true" power forward, but he's not as soft as some people around here say. He can throw some hits and most of all he's hard to move and hard to stop.

I don't expect Bert to leave, I just hope he does.

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Franzen may not play like a "true" power forward, but he's not as soft as some people around here say. He can throw some hits and most of all he's hard to move and hard to stop.

I don't expect Bert to leave, I just hope he does.

Franzen is a diver, plain and simple. He's a highly skilled player and a clutch scorer, but his embellishments are kinda ridiculous for a guy his size which I find disappointing.

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Franzen is a diver, plain and simple. He's a highly skilled player and a clutch scorer, but his embellishments are kinda ridiculous for a guy his size which I find disappointing.

That's your opinion (I completely disagree) but there's more to not being soft than diving or not diving. For example, Crosby dives but he's not really a soft player.

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Bring back:

UFA's:

#1) Lidstrom (7.5 mil) - He'll be back as our captain at a much lower price, probably a 1-2 year deal.

#2) Holmstrom (2.3 mil) - He'll be back at a slightly lower price, probably 1 year.

#3) Bertuzzi (1.5 mil) - I know he's easy to hate, but in all objective reality, he gives us everything on the ice that mule gives us...but to a lesser degree...and one that is fairly proportional to their difference in price.

Yes, Yes, Yes.

Lidstrom is getting a bit older. In fact, I dare say he was partially responsible for one goal against us last game...but it's not very often one can say that. He still plays at a very high caliber, he's just....well...a lets admit it, getting a little less slick than he use to be. You can see it in his face when he does screw up a play, in the form of a very un-Lidstrom like rage. I say this because as I personally get older, it occasionally gets frustrating to KNOW that you just did something poorly that you wouldn't have done in your younger years. Down and out? Hell no. Lidstrom has a few great years left in him, but he's not always capable of making the plays he once made. It's frustrating to him. But, he's still the best D-Man on our team, and still a man whom I'd bear the children of. Jk :)

Holmstrom in some ways is following the same path, with one exception. He's getting somehow even TOUGHER. I will not dismiss his goal scoring this season, but largely it was due to his proficiency at how he does his job at the goalies throat. Skill wise he's also dipped a bit, and if you were to scroll back to last years playoffs you'd find plenty of posts deeming him only worthy of the third or fourth line. Granted, posts made in anger don't count, but for those with short term, bipolar hockey memories (Which is 99% of us), his age is taking a toll. But, he's still the best at his main job in the league, and sometimes I wonder if he's not just getting better at it.

Bertuzzi, now there is a subject of hot debate. Scroll back one page and you'll find a praise thread, two and a hatred thread, three and another praise thread. To be Honest, I'm very happy with what Bert has brought this year. A lot of season games he was either the reason we won, or the reason we stayed in, with his oddball goal scoring ability. I agree....he doesn't have the physical edge we all wanted all the time, and he gets sloppy sometimes, and when he gets near the goal with the puck perhaps he tries a bit too hard to make the fancy plays that maybe he shouldn't be making anymore, but his offensive awareness is still very solid, his size can still be used, and he can still score.

RFA's:

#1) Abdelkader (0.9 mil) - no question about it, slight raise.

#2) Helm (0.6 mil) - ditto.

#3) Miller (0.5 mil) - hopefully no one makes him a big offer.

#4) Eaves (0.5 mil) - hopefully no one makes him a big offer.

#5) Meech (0.5 mil) - shouldn't be hard to keep, nice seventh defenseman that can play forward in a jam.

Abdelkader has heart. You don't score like he has scored, hit like he has hit....as a freaking rookie, and not want to keep this guy around. Pending he doesn't slump himself out, or injure himself.....the dude is the real deal. He's a ******* hockey player.

Helm has speed, and tenacity that we will need.

The rest I don't have much to say on. All solid potentially sound players. I don't see any of them going on to be superstars, but I can see them replenishing our 3rd/4th lines over the years as we start to lose a lot of our 90's crew to age and retirement. What each of those three lack for now....is a personality. A "role" if you will. If each of them, or any of them....find a role on this team, then they will be well worth keeping.

Will reply more later, on the rest. Gotta sleep.

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I want to see us sign more soft Euros like Vrbata, Nokelainnen and Prucha, who will play hard in the playoffs and win battles along the boards.

These North Americans like Bertuzzi, Eaves, Abby and Miller just aren't cutting it right now.

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Franzen is a diver, plain and simple. He's a highly skilled player and a clutch scorer, but his embellishments are kinda ridiculous for a guy his size which I find disappointing.

If you were as big as Franzen, and got knocked down, most likely driving through two dudes at once as he tends to do.... I'd like to see you gracefully get back to your feet.

I want to see us sign more soft Euros like Vrbata, Nokelainnen and Prucha, who will play hard in the playoffs and win battles along the boards.

These North Americans like Bertuzzi, Eaves, Abby and Miller just aren't cutting it right now.

At what point has Abby been bad in the playoffs?

I take it, you just have no idea what you are talking about.

This isn't Soccer kid. Learn hockey, then speak.

Edited by Joseph Franks
wingsownnhl43 likes this

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