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Automatic Chara suspension recinded


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#21 Hiei

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Posted 24 April 2010 - 12:17 AM

Sorry Carman.

Double standards go against the spirit of good competition. Telling me that this rule was made for the Boogaards and Proberts of the world, but Malkin and Chara get away scot-free, is WRONG. Just like the Ally bank commercial, you don't have to be a kid to know that this is WRONG.

What about PRONGER?!?! He's both a goon and a star, and we all know the double standard that has worked AGAINST us in the past. What about the Niederdick brothers?

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#22 Carman

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Posted 24 April 2010 - 12:19 AM

Well they obviously can't classify "enforcer" in the rule book. But the criteria on past incidents etc. make it pretty easy to see the type of game someone plays.

For an example, if Datsyuk decides to stick up for himself at the end of the game would this forum still be asking the league to enforce this?

And if you don't like this rule would you like seeing Tootoo or Cooke out at the end of the game taking runs at Lidstrom etc.

#23 egroen

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Posted 24 April 2010 - 12:19 AM

Sorry Carman.

Double standards go against the spirit of good competition. Telling me that this rule was made for the Boogaards and Proberts of the world, but Malkin and Chara get away scot-free, is WRONG. Just like the Ally bank commercial, you don't have to be a kid to know that this is WRONG.

What about PRONGER?!?! He's both a goon and a star, and we all know the double standard that has worked AGAINST us in the past. What about the Niederdick brothers?

No, it clearly says in the rules stars are exempt!
.... no? But that's what they meant! :P
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#24 Casey

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Posted 24 April 2010 - 12:20 AM

47.22 Fines and Suspensions Instigator in Final Five Minutes of Regulation Time (or Anytime in Overtime) - A player or goalkeeper who is deemed to be the instigator of an altercation in the final five (5) minutes of regulation time or at anytime in overtime, shall automatically be suspended for one game.


Nothing there about intent, sorry. Saying "but we can change our minds" is the kind of bulls*** that makes fans leave the sport. Either enforce it as written, rewrite it, or drop it.
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#25 Carman

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Posted 24 April 2010 - 12:23 AM

Nothing there about intent, sorry. Saying "but we can change our minds" is the kind of bulls*** that makes fans leave the sport. Either enforce it as written, rewrite it, or drop it.


Might want to read and quote the whole rule.

How else are you going to write a rule to stop coaches from sending messages towards the end of the game?

Edited by Carman, 24 April 2010 - 12:23 AM.


#26 egroen

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Posted 24 April 2010 - 12:24 AM

Well they obviously can't classify "enforcer" in the rule book. But the criteria on past incidents etc. make it pretty easy to see the type of game someone plays.

For an example, if Datsyuk decides to stick up for himself at the end of the game would this forum still be asking the league to enforce this?

And if you don't like this rule would you like seeing Tootoo or Cooke out at the end of the game taking runs at Lidstrom etc.

It's an utterly idiotic rule that has been rescinded more often than it has been enforced.
Goons rarely play in the final 5 minutes, and if they do, by that time your star players are resting up for the next one.
Red Kelly #4 and Larry Aurie #6 belong in the rafters!!!

"For my game, I don't need to score the goal," Konstantinov once explained. "I need someone to start thinking about me and forgetting about scoring goals."

#27 Carman

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Posted 24 April 2010 - 12:26 AM

It's an utterly idiotic rule that has been rescinded more often than it has been enforced.
Goons rarely play in the final 5 minutes, and if they do, by that time your star players are resting up for the next one.


Exactly why this rule isn't enforced too often. But if a team does try to send a message by sending a enforcer at the end of the game this rule is there to enforce.

#28 egroen

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Posted 24 April 2010 - 12:33 AM

Exactly why this rule isn't enforced too often. But if a team does try to send a message by sending a enforcer at the end of the game this rule is there to enforce.

Making up a rule to single out players for carrying firearms onto the ice would make about as much sense.

Having watched the review, Chara should never have been called for instigating on that play in the first place.

Edited by egroen, 24 April 2010 - 08:10 AM.

Red Kelly #4 and Larry Aurie #6 belong in the rafters!!!

"For my game, I don't need to score the goal," Konstantinov once explained. "I need someone to start thinking about me and forgetting about scoring goals."

#29 Buppy

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Posted 24 April 2010 - 12:42 AM

Well they obviously can't classify "enforcer" in the rule book. But the criteria on past incidents etc. make it pretty easy to see the type of game someone plays.

For an example, if Datsyuk decides to stick up for himself at the end of the game would this forum still be asking the league to enforce this?

And if you don't like this rule would you like seeing Tootoo or Cooke out at the end of the game taking runs at Lidstrom etc.


I take that to mean that you DO want to see Crosby or Ovie out taking runs at people?

The point of the rule is to stop ANYONE from doing that crap. Shouldn't make any difference if it's Chara or Chuck Norris riding a Rhino.

It's a suspension for instigating, not for fighting. You don't typically see instigators handed out to people 'sticking up for themselves'. (From the league's explanation, it sounds like they're saying Chara shouldn't have gotten one, but I haven't seen the incident, so I can't say.) The refs are certainly capable of giving out instigators when they shouldn't, so i don't absolutely hate the clause, but you have to admit it is starting to look like a superstar get out of jail free card.

#30 TheWestWing

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Posted 24 April 2010 - 07:46 AM

The wrong flowchart was posted earlier......

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#31 CupCrazy22

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Posted 24 April 2010 - 08:06 AM

Link

It's pretty clear he was reacting to the slash that Gaustad gave him, which would then be explain by the bold and underlined text in the rulebook.

47.22 Fines and Suspensions – Instigator in Final Five Minutes of Regulation Time (or Anytime in Overtime) - A player or goalkeeper who is deemed to be the instigator of an altercation in the final five (5) minutes of regulation time or at anytime in overtime, shall automatically be suspended for one game. The Director of Hockey Operations will review every such incident and may rescind the suspension based on a number of criteria. The criteria for the review shall include, but not limited to, the score, previous incidents, etc. The length of suspension will double for each subsequent offense. This suspension shall be served in addition to any other automatic suspensions a player may incur for an accumulation of three or more instigator penalties.

When the one-game suspension is imposed, the Coach shall be fined $10,000 – a fine that will double for each subsequent incident.

No team appeals will be permitted either verbally or in writing regarding the assessment of this automatic suspension.


Edited by CupCrazy22, 24 April 2010 - 08:12 AM.


#32 Holmstrom96

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Posted 24 April 2010 - 08:06 AM

The wrong flowchart was posted earlier......

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#33 Lovin Jiri Fischer

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Posted 24 April 2010 - 08:27 AM

Well they obviously can't classify "enforcer" in the rule book. But the criteria on past incidents etc. make it pretty easy to see the type of game someone plays.

For an example, if Datsyuk decides to stick up for himself at the end of the game would this forum still be asking the league to enforce this?

And if you don't like this rule would you like seeing Tootoo or Cooke out at the end of the game taking runs at Lidstrom etc.



If Datsyuk was sticking up for himself at the end of the game, how would he be the instigator? The guy he's sticking up for himself against would be the instigator here, and he should get the suspension.

#34 Louisville

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Posted 24 April 2010 - 08:38 AM

Agreeing with Carman isn't a.. usual.. thing for me, but he's absolutely right here. The spirit of this rule is to stop message sending, and in cases where the fight has clearly been the result of intensity and not gooning it up, the NHL has consistently overturned the suspension.


Then can someone explain to me Malkin and Crosby last year? Wasn't the whole point of that for them to send a message to the Wings? I don't remember what the league had to say about it.

#35 PotbellyJoe

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Posted 24 April 2010 - 08:43 AM

Then can someone explain to me Malkin and Crosby last year? Wasn't the whole point of that for them to send a message to the Wings? I don't remember what the league had to say about it.



They basically stated that Malkin should not have received the instigator so they weren't going to allow the suspension. That was their take on it.

#36 egroen

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Posted 24 April 2010 - 09:37 AM

They basically stated that Malkin should not have received the instigator so they weren't going to allow the suspension. That was their take on it.

I think it was more akin to "star players are incapable of sending a message".
Malkin was simply retaliating b/c Zetterberg offensively turned his back on him.
Red Kelly #4 and Larry Aurie #6 belong in the rafters!!!

"For my game, I don't need to score the goal," Konstantinov once explained. "I need someone to start thinking about me and forgetting about scoring goals."

#37 brett

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Posted 24 April 2010 - 11:28 AM

chara is a f***in goon, i really think the guy is way overrated and should have never won the norris last year.

#38 newfy

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Posted 24 April 2010 - 11:42 AM

chara is a f***in goon, i really think the guy is way overrated and should have never won the norris last year.

Chara is a beast. Hits, fights, scores and plays shutdown D. He had an off season this year but last year he for sure deserved it.

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#39 GoOzzieGo

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Posted 24 April 2010 - 12:02 PM

Chara was skating and staying in the play when the Buffalo player took a slight whack at the back of Chara's ankle. That is when Chara turned around and went after him. Watch it on youtube and tell me you guys would not be throwing a fit if any one of our Wings got suspended for that incident. In my opinion, nothing about that incident warrants a suspension.

#40 micah

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Posted 24 April 2010 - 02:07 PM

Chara was skating and staying in the play when the Buffalo player took a slight whack at the back of Chara's ankle. That is when Chara turned around and went after him. Watch it on youtube and tell me you guys would not be throwing a fit if any one of our Wings got suspended for that incident. In my opinion, nothing about that incident warrants a suspension.


Agreed.

Chara did what people are supposed to do when they get hit with a stick, hit back, not wait to be hit with a stick again. This rule applies in grade school, in bars, on the ice or in a church. Do not allow opther people to hit you with sticks.

Anyone who was paying attention when the last five minute instigator suspension rule came to be would know that it was not intended to - and was stated time and time again that it would not apply to players who did not make a living out of beating people up. The league wants guys like Chara and Malkin mixing it up, that sort of display of emotion is great for the game. Chris Simon jumping someone with 20 seconds to go when his team is down 6-1 is not good for the game and needs to be detered and punished.

I would very much like to see the instigator rule ammended - Chara did not deserve the extra penalty, Gausted did. IMO, any time a fight follows a slash, boarding, crosschecking or post-whistle contact (like facewashing), the player who innitoiates the first contact should get the instigator. The league should not penalize players for kicking the s*** out of players who deserve to get the s*** kicked out of them. Play a polite, respectful game inside the rules, skate quietly to the bench when the whistle blows and you'll be fine. Act like an ******* and you'll get a penalty and get beat-up. That's how it should be.
"It was pretty interesting," said Detroit coach Mike Babcock. "We had May in exhibition for a couple of games and no one gets hacked or whacked. When we don't have him, we get run. We don't have a team that twists off helmets at stoppages. You get tired of seeing it all the time. It's just nice when you get someone to look after that stuff."





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