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stevkrause

Kovalchuk will not be a Red Wing

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dream team :)

FORWARDS

Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / * kovalchuk ($4.500m)

Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Jiri Hudler ($2.875m)

Daniel Cleary ($2.800m) / * Tomas Holmstrom ($1.250m) / * Justin Abdelkader ($0.850m)

* Darren Helm ($0.599m) / * Mattias Ritola ($0.511m) / * Patrick Eaves ($0.500m)

DEFENSEMEN

Brian Rafalski ($6.000m) / Brad Stuart ($3.750m)

* Nicklas Lidstrom ($3.000m) / Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m)

* Volchenkov ($2.250m) / * Andreas Lilja ($1.250m)

Jonathan Ericsson ($0.900m) / Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)

GOALTENDERS

Chris Osgood ($1.417m) / Jimmy Howard ($0.717m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS

ROSTER: 22; PAYROLL: $56.790m; CAP ROOM: $0.010m BONUSES: $0.000m

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Guest Heaten

Do you honestly believe Kovulchuk wouldnt help this team? Kovalchuk, if he were to take around $6 million per year, would be GREAT in the cap world, considering the cap is probably going to keep on growing. The guy will be 28 next year so I would have no concerns if we signed him to a 8-10 year deal. He's a right handed shot, would be wonderful on the powerplays. Pure goal scorer, would be awesome with Pavel Datsyuk.

He would also help our bottom six considerably.

Kovalchuk-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Cleary-Zetterberg-Franzen

Helm-Filppula-Hudler

Eaves-Abdelkader-Miller

Pretty damn solid if you ask me.

I doubt Bettman (or the NHL) will tell Detroit that it will be okay if they play a season with $3 million over the cap space.

And that's assuming Kovalchuk will sign for under $7 million. Which I think isn't going to happen. I think he's going to go where the money is... that could be the KHL.

I also think Lidstrom is looking for Rafalski money ($6 million).... but lets assume he re-signs for $5 million for arguments sake. Wings are still $2.8 million over cap.

Kovalchuk ($7)-Datsyuk ($6.7)-Holmstrom($1.5) = 15.2

Cleary(2.8)-Zetterberg($6.1)-Franzen($4) = $12.9

Helm(1.2)-Filppula($3.0)-Hudler(2.9) = $7.1

Eaves($1.2)-Abdelkader($1.2)-Miller($1) = $3.4

Ritola ($.775)

Total $39.5

Lidstrom($5)-Ralfi($6)

Kronwall($3)-Stuart($3.7)

Lilja($1)-Ericsson($.900)

Meech($500)

Total $20.1

$59.6

Cap $56.8

Over $2.8 million

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I doubt Bettman (or the NHL) will tell Detroit that it will be okay if they play a season with $3 million over the cap space.

And that's assuming Kovalchuk will sign for under $7 million. Which I think isn't going to happen. I think he's going to go where the money is... that could be the KHL.

I also think Lidstrom is looking for Rafalski money ($6 million).... but lets assume he re-signs for $5 million for arguments sake. Wings are still $2.8 million over cap.

Kovalchuk ($7)-Datsyuk ($6.7)-Holmstrom($1.5) = 15.2

Cleary(2.8)-Zetterberg($6.1)-Franzen($4) = $12.9

Helm(1.2)-Filppula($3.0)-Hudler(2.9) = $7.1

Eaves($1.2)-Abdelkader($1.2)-Miller($1) = $3.4

Ritola ($.775)

Total $39.5

Lidstrom($5)-Ralfi($6)

Kronwall($3)-Stuart($3.7)

Lilja($1)-Ericsson($.900)

Meech($500)

Total $20.1

$59.6

Cap $56.8

Over $2.8 million

My whole argument was that Ilya Kovalchuk would help this team tremendously and that his presence would make our forwards much deeper. You claimed that he would not help us and would make us a one and a half line team.

My original statements were based on Kovalchuk taking a 10 year contract at about 6 million, and Nick taking a hefty discount. Please do not put aside my main statements to help make your argument.

Is it probable that we sign Kovalchuk? No. Nick and Homer would have to make some serious sacrifices. However, to say that he would not help our team and that his cap hit, at around 6 million would not work in the cap world when he's worth around 8, is assinine.

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We don't need another 6k+ long term contract.

I don't want the Wings to turn into the New York Rangers or Tampa Bay Lightning.

They wont unless the start giving 7-8 million plus to second tier players like those clubs did. Kovalchuk is 28 and elite.

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Guest Heaten

My whole argument was that Ilya Kovalchuk would help this team tremendously and that his presence would make our forwards much deeper. You claimed that he would not help us and would make us a one and a half line team.

My original statements were based on Kovalchuk taking a 10 year contract at about 6 million, and Nick taking a hefty discount. Please do not put aside my main statements to help make your argument.

Is it probable that we sign Kovalchuk? No. Nick and Homer would have to make some serious sacrifices. However, to say that he would not help our team and that his cap hit, at around 6 million would not work in the cap world when he's worth around 8, is assinine.

You quoted my "Do.Not.Want Kovalchuk" post. I didn't read the thread. I didn't read your $6 million proposition for Kovy along with Lidstrom taking a hefty discount. Therefore, your original post has no relevance to mine. I'm not living in the same fantasy world. I'd rather use a logic instead.

Using logic, in a salary cap world, Kovalchuk would hurt this team. How? We will lose bottom 6 depth. Holland would need to trade Filppula for picks, trade Hudler and/or let the kids walk (kindl, Ritola, Helm, Abby).

Your proposition sound great for Xbox and PS3... but makes no sense in the real world.

Do.Not.Want.Kovalchuk.

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You quoted my "Do.Not.Want Kovalchuk" post. I didn't read the thread. I didn't read your $6 million proposition for Kovy along with Lidstrom taking a hefty discount. Therefore, your original post has no relevance to mine. I'm not living in the same fantasy world. I'd rather use a logic instead.

Using logic, in a salary cap world, Kovalchuk would hurt this team. How? We will lose bottom 6 depth. Holland would need to trade Filppula for picks, trade Hudler and/or let the kids walk (kindl, Ritola, Helm, Abby).

Your proposition sound great for Xbox and PS3... but makes no sense in the real world.

Do.Not.Want.Kovalchuk.

Or just not re-sign Holmstrom and Bertuzzi

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Guest Heaten

Or just not re-sign Holmstrom and Bertuzzi

Bertuzzi wasn't figured in your roster above. Holmstrom was, so I calculated him @ 1.5 mil. Which is pretty good for 20-25 goals. Without Homer, Wings are losing those goals and increasing the cap hit significantly with Kovalchuk's contract. Again, Loss of depth and loss of goals at the expense of one player. Which proves my original post; loss of depth.

Elite teams have depth; Contenders have depth; Wings need to focus on depth during the offseason.

Do.Not.Want.Kovalchuk!

Edited by Heaten

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Bertuzzi wasn't figured in your roster above. Holmstrom was, so I calculated him @ 1.5 mil. Which is pretty good for 20-25 goals. Without Homer, Wings are losing those goals and increasing the cap hit significantly with Kovalchuk's contract. Again, Loss of depth and loss of goals at the expense of one player. Which proves my original post; loss of depth.

Elite teams have depth; Contenders have depth; Wings need to focus on depth during the offseason.

Do.Not.Want.Kovalchuk!

I don't know what kind of 'depth' you think we can get, or what it is you think we need. If it's secondary scoring, Helm, Eaves, Miller, and Abdelkader can do that just fine. And being RFAs, we can likely get them cheaper than other similar players. I don't know if you expect to somehow fill the 3rd line with 20 gosl scorers. Frankly we'll be fortunate to fill the top 6 with guys who'll put up 20+.

Homer will be a year older and hasn't played a full season 4 years. Hudler was good when he was here, but can he play on a top line and/or will he need to readjust to the NHL game? Bertuzzi, for all that everyone loves him after he ended the season with a couple good games, still only scored 18 goals this year. 6 more than Eaves, while playing 17 more games, a lot more minutes, a lot more PP time, and with a lot better linemates. Flip is very good, but not a goal scorer. Exactly what about any 3 of those 4 guys screams 'championship caliber top 6'? What could we really expect out of any of them on a third line?

If we could somehow squeeze 3-4 million in cap room, then add Flip or Hudler to that to get Kovy, we would be stupid not to. Of course, that's easier said than done. We'd need quite a few guys to sign friendly deals. Highly unlikely at best.

No doubt scoring depth is great. Especially great if we're plagued by key injuries. But getting that depth is even more unlikely than getting Kovy.

FORWARDS

Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / * Ilya Kovalchuk ($6.000m)

Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Jiri Hudler ($2.875m) / Daniel Cleary ($2.800m)

Kris Draper ($1.583m) / * Tomas Holmstrom ($1.250m) / * Darren Helm ($1.000m)

* Justin Abdelkader ($0.900m) / * Drew Miller ($0.800m) / * Patrick Eaves ($0.800m)

* Mattias Ritola ($0.650m)

DEFENSEMEN

Brian Rafalski ($6.000m) / * Nicklas Lidstrom ($4.500m)

Brad Stuart ($3.750m) / Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m)

* Andreas Lilja ($1.000m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($0.900m)

Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)

GOALTENDERS

Chris Osgood ($1.417m) / Jimmy Howard ($0.717m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS

ROSTER: 22; PAYROLL: $57.563m; CAP ROOM: $0.137m BONUSES: $0.000m

Perhaps unrealistic to hope for 9 guys to sign for a bit under market value.

If you think the above isn't feasible, then you spread some of Kovy's $6 around for raises, and you're left with basically just enough to keep Flip. How would that be better?

If you think my numbers are attainable, what would be a better way to spend that $6 mil? Upgrading the defense maybe. ($4m for Volchenkov to replace Lilja...I'd say yes to that.) Goalie? Debateable. Forwards? Flip + $3.8m FA or Kovy + Eaves/Miller. Maybe, maybe not.

Finally, my roster leaves either Cleary, Hudler, or Homer playing on the 3rd line. Even if we were to lose say Hudler and maybe Miller, replace them with cheap 4th liners to free up $2 mil+ for raises I'd still argue that it would be a damn good line up.

I just don't see how adding Kovy could ever be a bad thing. Maybe not the very best possibile, but not bad by any stretch.

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Guest Heaten

I don't know what kind of 'depth' you think we can get, or what it is you think we need. If it's secondary scoring, Helm, Eaves, Miller, and Abdelkader can do that just fine. And being RFAs, we can likely get them cheaper than other similar players. I don't know if you expect to somehow fill the 3rd line with 20 gosl scorers. Frankly we'll be fortunate to fill the top 6 with guys who'll put up 20+.

Homer will be a year older and hasn't played a full season 4 years. Hudler was good when he was here, but can he play on a top line and/or will he need to readjust to the NHL game? Bertuzzi, for all that everyone loves him after he ended the season with a couple good games, still only scored 18 goals this year. 6 more than Eaves, while playing 17 more games, a lot more minutes, a lot more PP time, and with a lot better linemates. Flip is very good, but not a goal scorer. Exactly what about any 3 of those 4 guys screams 'championship caliber top 6'? What could we really expect out of any of them on a third line?

If we could somehow squeeze 3-4 million in cap room, then add Flip or Hudler to that to get Kovy, we would be stupid not to. Of course, that's easier said than done. We'd need quite a few guys to sign friendly deals. Highly unlikely at best.

No doubt scoring depth is great. Especially great if we're plagued by key injuries. But getting that depth is even more unlikely than getting Kovy.

FORWARDS

Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / * Ilya Kovalchuk ($6.000m)

Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Jiri Hudler ($2.875m) / Daniel Cleary ($2.800m)

Kris Draper ($1.583m) / * Tomas Holmstrom ($1.250m) / * Darren Helm ($1.000m)

* Justin Abdelkader ($0.900m) / * Drew Miller ($0.800m) / * Patrick Eaves ($0.800m)

* Mattias Ritola ($0.650m)

DEFENSEMEN

Brian Rafalski ($6.000m) / * Nicklas Lidstrom ($4.500m)

Brad Stuart ($3.750m) / Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m)

* Andreas Lilja ($1.000m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($0.900m)

Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)

GOALTENDERS

Chris Osgood ($1.417m) / Jimmy Howard ($0.717m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS

ROSTER: 22; PAYROLL: $57.563m; CAP ROOM: $0.137m BONUSES: $0.000m

Perhaps unrealistic to hope for 9 guys to sign for a bit under market value.

If you think the above isn't feasible, then you spread some of Kovy's $6 around for raises, and you're left with basically just enough to keep Flip. How would that be better?

If you think my numbers are attainable, what would be a better way to spend that $6 mil? Upgrading the defense maybe. ($4m for Volchenkov to replace Lilja...I'd say yes to that.) Goalie? Debateable. Forwards? Flip + $3.8m FA or Kovy + Eaves/Miller. Maybe, maybe not.

Finally, my roster leaves either Cleary, Hudler, or Homer playing on the 3rd line. Even if we were to lose say Hudler and maybe Miller, replace them with cheap 4th liners to free up $2 mil+ for raises I'd still argue that it would be a damn good line up.

I just don't see how adding Kovy could ever be a bad thing. Maybe not the very best possibile, but not bad by any stretch.

You are a very optimistic person thinking we can get all those players to sign for that price. Even with this unrealistic salary proposition, it still costs DRWs key depth players to the point where 2009/10 Red Wings team look arguably superior. Where's Filppula? You have Holmstrom on the 3rd and 4th line? He can't play that role anymore, he's too slow. If he's not out there with skilled forwards to carry the puck in, he's useless. Holmstrom isn't going to produce 5v5 on the 3rd/4th line. Wings lost 18 goals in Bertuzzi and 20+ goals in Filppula... the depth is so thin that it makes me shutter to think we can make it out of the first round next year. Coyotes would have destroyed this roster.

I don't remember how many 5v5 goals Holmstrom scored this year, but lets say it was lucky number 7. So, Wings lost 45+ goals to be replaced by 41 goals from one guy. Plus Wings defensive forward depth (Filppula) is gone... Doesn't seem very logical to me.

Realistically, Kovalchuk is going to demand a hell of a lot more than $6 million. Lidstrom is likely to get Rafalski money ($6 million), Eaves and Miller are getting a raise if they stay. Holmstrom is probably going to get $1.5 - $2.0 mil per year. Holland isn't stupid enough to get rid of Filppula. Hudler isn't going to get traded, and Cleary has a NTC. There is no logical way Holland could get Kovalchuk unless Lidstrom retires and Bertuzzi and Holmstrom are let go. And if Lids retires, Holland's first priority is a high-caliber defenseman.

Kovalchuk would make this team worse if he signs here.

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You are a very optimistic person thinking we can get all those players to sign for that price. Even with this unrealistic salary proposition, it still costs DRWs key depth players to the point where 2009/10 Red Wings team look arguably superior. Where's Filppula? You have Holmstrom on the 3rd and 4th line? He can't play that role anymore, he's too slow. If he's not out there with skilled forwards to carry the puck in, he's useless. Holmstrom isn't going to produce 5v5 on the 3rd/4th line. Wings lost 18 goals in Bertuzzi and 20+ goals in Filppula... the depth is so thin that it makes me shutter to think we can make it out of the first round next year. Coyotes would have destroyed this roster.

I don't remember how many 5v5 goals Holmstrom scored this year, but lets say it was lucky number 7. So, Wings lost 45+ goals to be replaced by 41 goals from one guy. Plus Wings defensive forward depth (Filppula) is gone... Doesn't seem very logical to me.

Realistically, Kovalchuk is going to demand a hell of a lot more than $6 million. Lidstrom is likely to get Rafalski money ($6 million), Eaves and Miller are getting a raise if they stay. Holmstrom is probably going to get $1.5 - $2.0 mil per year. Holland isn't stupid enough to get rid of Filppula. Hudler isn't going to get traded, and Cleary has a NTC. There is no logical way Holland could get Kovalchuk unless Lidstrom retires and Bertuzzi and Holmstrom are let go. And if Lids retires, Holland's first priority is a high-caliber defenseman.

Kovalchuk would make this team worse if he signs here.

Obviously you just looked at the roster and didn't read the post. So I'll only bother to address the bolded portion.

That roster is the same as this year with the following changes:

Williams = Abdelkader

Maltby = Ritola

Bertuzzi = Hudler

Filppula = Kovalchuk

Every one of those moves is an upgrade. How is that 'losing depth'?

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Guest Heaten

Obviously you just looked at the roster and didn't read the post. So I'll only bother to address the bolded portion.

That roster is the same as this year with the following changes:

Williams = Abdelkader

Maltby = Ritola

Bertuzzi = Hudler

Filppula = Kovalchuk

Every one of those moves is an upgrade. How is that 'losing depth'?

No, I looked at your salary chart, and that's the fallacy in your post. To sign a guy like Kovy while keeping Lidstrom means Holland would have to give up more than Filppula. Hudler would more than likely need to be traded for picks or prospects. Salary cap, ain't it a *****!

That said, Holland agrees with me. He stated today that our top 6 is set. If Lidstrom re-signs, our defense is good. The issue is our bottom 6 needs more grit and he will be looking to improve the 4th line.

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You are a very optimistic person thinking we can get all those players to sign for that price. Even with this unrealistic salary proposition, it still costs DRWs key depth players to the point where 2009/10 Red Wings team look arguably superior. Where's Filppula? You have Holmstrom on the 3rd and 4th line? He can't play that role anymore, he's too slow. If he's not out there with skilled forwards to carry the puck in, he's useless. Holmstrom isn't going to produce 5v5 on the 3rd/4th line. Wings lost 18 goals in Bertuzzi and 20+ goals in Filppula... the depth is so thin that it makes me shutter to think we can make it out of the first round next year. Coyotes would have destroyed this roster.

I don't remember how many 5v5 goals Holmstrom scored this year, but lets say it was lucky number 7. So, Wings lost 45+ goals to be replaced by 41 goals from one guy. Plus Wings defensive forward depth (Filppula) is gone... Doesn't seem very logical to me.

Realistically, Kovalchuk is going to demand a hell of a lot more than $6 million. Lidstrom is likely to get Rafalski money ($6 million), Eaves and Miller are getting a raise if they stay. Holmstrom is probably going to get $1.5 - $2.0 mil per year. Holland isn't stupid enough to get rid of Filppula. Hudler isn't going to get traded, and Cleary has a NTC. There is no logical way Holland could get Kovalchuk unless Lidstrom retires and Bertuzzi and Holmstrom are let go. And if Lids retires, Holland's first priority is a high-caliber defenseman.

Kovalchuk would make this team worse if he signs here.

This is what I'll never understand about Wings fans. Everyone seems to agree that Holmstrom would be useless on the third line but flame on me when I yell for him to be taken off the first line. Ifs hes not skilled enough to play 5on5 with the third line, then why is he good enough to play on the first?

Id honestly rather keep Bertuzzi for 1.5 than Homer. Homer is simply a powerplay specialist. Im tired of him dragging down our first line.

I don't know what kind of 'depth' you think we can get, or what it is you think we need. If it's secondary scoring, Helm, Eaves, Miller, and Abdelkader can do that just fine. And being RFAs, we can likely get them cheaper than other similar players. I don't know if you expect to somehow fill the 3rd line with 20 gosl scorers. Frankly we'll be fortunate to fill the top 6 with guys who'll put up 20+.

Homer will be a year older and hasn't played a full season 4 years. Hudler was good when he was here, but can he play on a top line and/or will he need to readjust to the NHL game? Bertuzzi, for all that everyone loves him after he ended the season with a couple good games, still only scored 18 goals this year. 6 more than Eaves, while playing 17 more games, a lot more minutes, a lot more PP time, and with a lot better linemates. Flip is very good, but not a goal scorer. Exactly what about any 3 of those 4 guys screams 'championship caliber top 6'? What could we really expect out of any of them on a third line?

If we could somehow squeeze 3-4 million in cap room, then add Flip or Hudler to that to get Kovy, we would be stupid not to. Of course, that's easier said than done. We'd need quite a few guys to sign friendly deals. Highly unlikely at best.

No doubt scoring depth is great. Especially great if we're plagued by key injuries. But getting that depth is even more unlikely than getting Kovy.

FORWARDS

Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / * Ilya Kovalchuk ($6.000m)

Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Jiri Hudler ($2.875m) / Daniel Cleary ($2.800m)

Kris Draper ($1.583m) / * Tomas Holmstrom ($1.250m) / * Darren Helm ($1.000m)

* Justin Abdelkader ($0.900m) / * Drew Miller ($0.800m) / * Patrick Eaves ($0.800m)

* Mattias Ritola ($0.650m)

DEFENSEMEN

Brian Rafalski ($6.000m) / * Nicklas Lidstrom ($4.500m)

Brad Stuart ($3.750m) / Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m)

* Andreas Lilja ($1.000m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($0.900m)

Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)

GOALTENDERS

Chris Osgood ($1.417m) / Jimmy Howard ($0.717m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS

ROSTER: 22; PAYROLL: $57.563m; CAP ROOM: $0.137m BONUSES: $0.000m

Perhaps unrealistic to hope for 9 guys to sign for a bit under market value.

If you think the above isn't feasible, then you spread some of Kovy's $6 around for raises, and you're left with basically just enough to keep Flip. How would that be better?

If you think my numbers are attainable, what would be a better way to spend that $6 mil? Upgrading the defense maybe. ($4m for Volchenkov to replace Lilja...I'd say yes to that.) Goalie? Debateable. Forwards? Flip + $3.8m FA or Kovy + Eaves/Miller. Maybe, maybe not.

Finally, my roster leaves either Cleary, Hudler, or Homer playing on the 3rd line. Even if we were to lose say Hudler and maybe Miller, replace them with cheap 4th liners to free up $2 mil+ for raises I'd still argue that it would be a damn good line up.

I just don't see how adding Kovy could ever be a bad thing. Maybe not the very best possibile, but not bad by any stretch.

Heaton had issues with your salaries, but I actually think Helm, Eaves, Miller, and Ritola are a little high. In my mind if Miller wants .800, Id rather bring in someone else for 500k. Hes very replaceable. Homer will probably be around 1.5. I think Nick's is more than fair.

Also, if someones going to go between Filppula and Hudler to make room for someone else, its Hudler. And its not even an argument.

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Guest Crymson

Kovalchuk can and will command $7m on the free agent market, assuming he does not go to play in the KHL for even more.

This is what I'll never understand about Wings fans. Everyone seems to agree that Holmstrom would be useless on the third line but flame on me when I yell for him to be taken off the first line. Ifs hes not skilled enough to play 5on5 with the third line, then why is he good enough to play on the first?

Id honestly rather keep Bertuzzi for 1.5 than Homer. Homer is simply a powerplay specialist. Im tired of him dragging down our first line.

Heaton had issues with your salaries, but I actually think Helm, Eaves, Miller, and Ritola are a little high. In my mind if Miller wants .800, Id rather bring in someone else for 500k. Hes very replaceable. Homer will probably be around 1.5. I think Nick's is more than fair.

Also, if someones going to go between Filppula and Hudler to make room for someone else, its Hudler. And its not even an argument.

Holmstrom is invaluable when he has people capable of cycling the puck and setting up good shots from the point or the circles. He is useless on a grinding line.

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Kovalchuk can and will command $7m on the free agent market, assuming he does not go to play in the KHL for even more.

Holmstrom is invaluable when he has people capable of cycling the puck and setting up good shots from the point or the circles. He is useless on a grinding line.

Holmstrom is invaluable to Wings fans because of the emotional attatchment he has gained. He is overrated. He flourished with Zetterberg and Datsyuk, but who wouldnt? Thats how Franzen broke out. Franzen started scoring at will when Homer got hurt and he was moved up with Z and D to replace him. No doubt Cleary, or Bertuzzi would score 25 goals as the main guy in front of the net on powerplays and on the first line.

Edited by wingsownnhl43

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No, I looked at your salary chart, and that's the fallacy in your post. To sign a guy like Kovy while keeping Lidstrom means Holland would have to give up more than Filppula. Hudler would more than likely need to be traded for picks or prospects. Salary cap, ain't it a *****!

...

No, you looked at the roster and said 'how can I twist this to make it look like Kovy is bad for the team, then ignored points that contradicted your pre-drawn conclusion. Much like you now ignore my rebuttal in favor of taking an entirely different argument.

But since you still didn't read the original post, you don't realise that I already addressed the salaries. Even if you replace Hudler with a minimum wage 4th liner, that forward unit is still an upgrade over what we had this year. No any deeper, but not any less either.

There are really only two big parts of my roster that are borderline, Nick and Kovy. I allocated $9.275 million for Hudler, Homer, Helm, Abby, Eaves, Miller, Ritola, and Lilja. That's the bottom 6, one top 6 roleplayer, and a 3rd pair defenseman. We can get that for that price. It could mean we don't have the scoring depth added by Hudler, but it also increases our primary scoring and gives us another dominant player making the top 6 less susceptible to injury. Worth a slight loss of scoring depth IMO.

So the big points are what Nick is willing to sign for (and how low the team is willing to offer, personally I think he gets $6 if he comes back), and whether or not we'd be willing to take on a third long term deal (which is what it would take to Kovy at close to that price). Neither is very likely, and if you just want to argue that it couldn't happen, fine. But you just can't say we would be worse with Kovalchuk.

This is what I'll never understand about Wings fans. Everyone seems to agree that Holmstrom would be useless on the third line but flame on me when I yell for him to be taken off the first line. Ifs hes not skilled enough to play 5on5 with the third line, then why is he good enough to play on the first?

Id honestly rather keep Bertuzzi for 1.5 than Homer. Homer is simply a powerplay specialist. Im tired of him dragging down our first line.

...

Also, if someones going to go between Filppula and Hudler to make room for someone else, its Hudler. And its not even an argument.

Homer isn't the right style for a 3rd/4th line. I would hate seeing him used as just a PP specialist for a cheap price, with limited 4th line time. But he can still offer something to the top line 5 on 5. He scored 12 ES goals. 2 less than Bert in 300 less minutes, playing with similar linemates. Cleary is better 5v5, but not by a lot. Bert is not any better (arguably worse even) ES, and not even close on the PP.

And I kept Huds because he's a better goal scorer, and Flip has a much higher trade value. But either way I wouldn't complain.

Kovalchuk can and will command $7m on the free agent market, assuming he does not go to play in the KHL for even more. ...

Depends on the length of the deal and where he wants to play. If he wants to go to a contender, he'll probably go long term for 5-6.

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No, you looked at the roster and said 'how can I twist this to make it look like Kovy is bad for the team, then ignored points that contradicted your pre-drawn conclusion. Much like you now ignore my rebuttal in favor of taking an entirely different argument.

But since you still didn't read the original post, you don't realise that I already addressed the salaries. Even if you replace Hudler with a minimum wage 4th liner, that forward unit is still an upgrade over what we had this year. No any deeper, but not any less either.

There are really only two big parts of my roster that are borderline, Nick and Kovy. I allocated $9.275 million for Hudler, Homer, Helm, Abby, Eaves, Miller, Ritola, and Lilja. That's the bottom 6, one top 6 roleplayer, and a 3rd pair defenseman. We can get that for that price. It could mean we don't have the scoring depth added by Hudler, but it also increases our primary scoring and gives us another dominant player making the top 6 less susceptible to injury. Worth a slight loss of scoring depth IMO.

So the big points are what Nick is willing to sign for (and how low the team is willing to offer, personally I think he gets $6 if he comes back), and whether or not we'd be willing to take on a third long term deal (which is what it would take to Kovy at close to that price). Neither is very likely, and if you just want to argue that it couldn't happen, fine. But you just can't say we would be worse with Kovalchuk.

Kovalchuk would indeed make this team worse. If you can't see that, then I don't know what to tell you. Holland would have to refuse to re-sign Lidstrom along with letting go one of Holmstrom or Bertuzzi.

Or, like you suggest, give up one of the best 2-way forwards on this team along with giving up Hudler and possibly more and replacing them with scrubs. Personally, I don't want to see a half line-up of scrubs to sign one 40 goal scorer. In addition to that, Wings would be losing more than 40 goals to obtain him. Not worth it. Kovalchuk (his salary) would make this team worse. And honestly, a lot less fun to watch. Top defense pairs only need to shut down DRWs 1.5 lines instead of having the burden of 3 rolling lines with offensive prowess to fear.

I honestly cannot believe you don't understand that. You appear so stuck on the idea that it's causing you to fail to see reality. Even Ken Holland agrees with my assessments, per his quotes in his latest Mlive article. He stated the top 6 is fine. If Lids re-signs, the defense is good to go. The only area that he sees the need to improve is the bottom 6.

This thread is useless. There is no way Kovalchuk is coming here and there is no way he signs for less than $7 or $8 million (long term). I honestly think he's going to the KHL for the money.

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Kovalchuk would indeed make this team worse. If you can't see that, then I don't know what to tell you. Holland would have to refuse to re-sign Lidstrom along with letting go one of Holmstrom or Bertuzzi.

Or, like you suggest, give up one of the best 2-way forwards on this team along with giving up Hudler and possibly more and replacing them with scrubs. Personally, I don't want to see a half line-up of scrubs to sign one 40 goal scorer. In addition to that, Wings would be losing more than 40 goals to obtain him. Not worth it. Kovalchuk (his salary) would make this team worse. And honestly, a lot less fun to watch. Top defense pairs only need to shut down DRWs 1.5 lines instead of having the burden of 3 rolling lines with offensive prowess to fear.

I honestly cannot believe you don't understand that. You appear so stuck on the idea that it's causing you to fail to see reality. Even Ken Holland agrees with my assessments, per his quotes in his latest Mlive article. He stated the top 6 is fine. If Lids re-signs, the defense is good to go. The only area that he sees the need to improve is the bottom 6.

This thread is useless. There is no way Kovalchuk is coming here and there is no way he signs for less than $7 or $8 million (long term). I honestly think he's going to the KHL for the money.

You're a fool if you think a top 6 of Pav, Hank, Kovy, Mule, Homer, and Cleary is '1.5 lines'. That would arguably be the best top 6 in the league, and far better than what we're likely to have.

As far as 'three lines of offensive prowess to fear'...that's even less likely than signing Kovy. We tried that this year. Willy and Leino. Put Cleary on a third line and he's no better than Abby, Helm, or Eaves. Flip can't carry a line by himself. Bert or Homer wouldn't be effective. Hudler maybe, but without decent linemates, probably not. If we try three lines again I really doubt it will work any better. The second line will probably be Cleary-Hank-Bert again. It sucked this season, it will continue to suck next year. A third line of Whoever-Flip-Hudler will look nice, create a bunch of chances, but not get much done. And if you put Flip or Happy on the second line, you just make the 3rd worse...really no better than what we could get with cheap players like Miller and Eaves. And the top 6 still isn't as good as it would be with Kovy.

If Kenny really isn't looking at anything beyond some grit for the 4th line, it's because he doesn't think it's possible to do anything else. Maybe he's already planned on giving 6-7 mil to Nick, and/or 2 mil to Helm. Maybe he has no interest in another long term deal and/or he thinks it would still take 8 mil or more to get Kovy. I trust him. If he doesn't think we can improve in any meaningful way beyond Hudler, then I can accept that.

But I don't know Kenny or what his true plans are. I don't know Nick, or Kovy, or any other players. Neither do you. For all I know Nick will pull a Stevie and sign for half his true worth or less. For all you know Kovy turned down 10 mil from Atlanta because he really wants to play here. For all anyone on this board knows, Hudler doesn't really plan on coming back and he's just posturing to get himself an offer from another KHL team.

But what I do know is that if we could pull off something like I suggested, the team would be better for it.

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You're a fool if you think a top 6 of Pav, Hank, Kovy, Mule, Homer, and Cleary is '1.5 lines'. That would arguably be the best top 6 in the league, and far better than what we're likely to have.

As far as 'three lines of offensive prowess to fear'...that's even less likely than signing Kovy. We tried that this year. Willy and Leino. Put Cleary on a third line and he's no better than Abby, Helm, or Eaves. Flip can't carry a line by himself. Bert or Homer wouldn't be effective. Hudler maybe, but without decent linemates, probably not. If we try three lines again I really doubt it will work any better. The second line will probably be Cleary-Hank-Bert again. It sucked this season, it will continue to suck next year. A third line of Whoever-Flip-Hudler will look nice, create a bunch of chances, but not get much done. And if you put Flip or Happy on the second line, you just make the 3rd worse...really no better than what we could get with cheap players like Miller and Eaves. And the top 6 still isn't as good as it would be with Kovy.

If Kenny really isn't looking at anything beyond some grit for the 4th line, it's because he doesn't think it's possible to do anything else. Maybe he's already planned on giving 6-7 mil to Nick, and/or 2 mil to Helm. Maybe he has no interest in another long term deal and/or he thinks it would still take 8 mil or more to get Kovy. I trust him. If he doesn't think we can improve in any meaningful way beyond Hudler, then I can accept that.

But I don't know Kenny or what his true plans are. I don't know Nick, or Kovy, or any other players. Neither do you. For all I know Nick will pull a Stevie and sign for half his true worth or less. For all you know Kovy turned down 10 mil from Atlanta because he really wants to play here. For all anyone on this board knows, Hudler doesn't really plan on coming back and he's just posturing to get himself an offer from another KHL team.

But what I do know is that if we could pull off something like I suggested, the team would be better for it.

Bingo! "no interest in another long term deal". Now you are starting to get it.

AS for the lines, yeah, Wings would be more effective than icing three scoring lines and a gritty 4th.

Kovalchuk ($7)-Datsyuk ($6.7)-Holmstrom($1.8) = 15.5

Hudler(2.9)-Zetterberg($6.1)-Franzen($4) = $13

SCRUB(.500)-SCRUB($.500)-Cleary(2.8) = $3.8

SCRUB($.500)-Abdelkader($1.2)-Draper($1.6) = $3.3

Ritola ($.775)

Total $35.6

Lidstrom($5)-Ralfi($6)

Kronwall($3)-Stuart($3.7)

Lilja($1)-Ericsson($.900)

Kindl($.900)

Total $20.5

$55.7

Cap allowance $56.8

Cap space left $.700

LOST PLAYERS

Bertuzzi - 18 goals

Eaves - 12 goals

Helm - 11 goals

Filppula - 20 goals

Lost 61 goals

So Holland lost 61 goals that will be replaced by 40 goals. Who knows, maybe the SCRUBS can replace some goals. They'll also be less defensive and won't be put out in key situation (maybe not PK worth the damn). Loss of depth hurts this team. I don't want to make personal attacks, but I am surprised that someone here as long as you just can't understand that. This team is worse with Kovalchuk.

Here's the better linup without Kovalchuk, the way Holland he will likely go... and thank god he's the GM of this team!

Bertuzzi ($1.5)-Datsyuk ($6.7)-Holmstrom($1.8) = $10

Cleary(2.8)-Zetterberg($6.1)-Franzen($4) = $12.9

Hudler(2.9)-Filppula($3.0)-Eaves(1.2) = $7.1

Abdelkader($1.2)-Helm($1.2)-Draper($1.6) = $4

Ritola ($.775)

Total $34

Lidstrom($5)-Ralfi($6)

Kronwall($3)-Stuart($3.7)

Lilja($1)-Ericsson($.900)

Meech($900)

Total $20.5

$54.5

Cap $56.8

Left over cap space to call up players in case of injuries: $2.3 million

God I hope you get it this time!

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Bingo! "no interest in another long term deal". Now you are starting to get it.

AS for the lines, yeah, Wings would be more effective than icing three scoring lines and a gritty 4th.

ROSTER A

Kovalchuk ($7)-Datsyuk ($6.7)-Holmstrom($1.8) = 15.5

Hudler(2.9)-Zetterberg($6.1)-Franzen($4) = $13

SCRUB(.500)-SCRUB($.500)-Cleary(2.8) = $3.8

SCRUB($.500)-Abdelkader($1.2)-Draper($1.6) = $3.3

Ritola ($.775)

Total $35.6

Lidstrom($5)-Ralfi($6)

Kronwall($3)-Stuart($3.7)

Lilja($1)-Ericsson($.900)

Kindl($.900)

Total $20.5

$55.7

Cap allowance $56.8

Cap space left $.700

LOST PLAYERS

Bertuzzi - 18 goals

Eaves - 12 goals

Helm - 11 goals

Filppula - 20 goals

Lost 61 goals

So Holland lost 61 goals that will be replaced by 40 goals. Who knows, maybe the SCRUBS can replace some goals. They'll also be less defensive and won't be put out in key situation (maybe not PK worth the damn). Loss of depth hurts this team. I don't want to make personal attacks, but I am surprised that someone here as long as you just can't understand that. This team is worse with Kovalchuk.

Here's the better linup without Kovalchuk, the way Holland he will likely go... and thank god he's the GM of this team!

ROSTER B

Bertuzzi ($1.5)-Datsyuk ($6.7)-Holmstrom($1.8) = $10

Cleary(2.8)-Zetterberg($6.1)-Franzen($4) = $12.9

Hudler(2.9)-Filppula($3.0)-Eaves(1.2) = $7.1

Abdelkader($1.2)-Helm($1.2)-Draper($1.6) = $4

Ritola ($.775)

Total $34

Lidstrom($5)-Ralfi($6)

Kronwall($3)-Stuart($3.7)

Lilja($1)-Ericsson($.900)

Meech($900)

Total $20.5

$54.5

Cap $56.8

Left over cap space to call up players in case of injuries: $2.3 million

God I hope you get it this time!

Well this is getting fun now.

Let's look at those rosters:

First, you forgot to pay the goalies. That's $2.2. So roster A is $1.5 over cap. B is $0.1 under. But you also didn't increase the cap. Reports are that it will go up close to a million. $57.7 is a number that's been quoted, so using that, it puts A at $0.6 over, B $1.0 under.

So, working on Roster A. Subtract Hudler, now we're $2.3 under cap. Turn those scrubs you inexplicably hired into Helm (1.2), Eaves (1.0), and Miller (1.0), and we're left with $0.6 for another forward for the 4th line. Despite what you may think, cheap forwards that can play are available. There were about a dozen players making 600k or less that scored over 10 goals. Quite a few more that likely would have had they played full seasons. Many of them are solid defensively, capable of killing penalties. We had 3 of them in fact. It's not a stretch to think we could find a solid 4th liner for that price. Moreover, it's possible we could lower some of the other salaries a little, maybe freeing up another 300-500k which greatly expands the range of players available.

So now, we lose:

Bertuzzi - 18 goals (if we're lucky, aging and an injury history...)

Filppula - 20 goals (it's a bit of a stretch, especially if you bury him on the third line, but ok...)

Hudler - 23 goals

61 goals

We gain:

Miller - 10 goals

SCRUB - 10 goals

Kovalchuk - 40 goals

60 goals. Looks fairly even at first, BUT Kovy would make Datsyuk and Homer better. Bert makes them worse. So add another 10 goals at least for that.

But you're also probably worrying about a 'lack of depth'. Thinking with Roster B, if someone in the top 6 goes down, Flip or Happy can step in. And if it's Bert, Homer, or Cleary, yeah, we'd be alright. Franzen? Not so much. Pav or Hank, that's still trouble. Just like this year, if one of those three were hurt, we'd struggle to score goals. We couldn't make more than one good line.

With Kovy we get another premier scorer. Someone who has proven he can be a threat by himself. So now if Homer or Cleary go down, pretty much anyone can step in and do ok, as they'll have 2 big players with them. Kovy or Mule goes down, we'd still have one excellent line, and another that wouldn't be any worse than your 'top' line in Roster B. Losing Pav or Hank would still hurt like hell, but again, we'd have one legit top line, and a second anchored by Kovy, one of the top snipers in the league. Rather than losing depth, we GAIN depth in a vital area.

Nothing we can do will insure us against a rash of injuries like we had this year. So no point even worrying about it. If it happens again, we'll just have to hope it's not so many key players and/or it happens early enough to allow us time to recover. The same is true with whatever roster we put together.

Would the above be better than using the $1-2 million in available space as reserve for a deadline move? Or to upgrade Lilja? Or maybe Eaves or Bertuzzi?

Maybe, maybe not. $3 mil isn't really enough to get an impact player, but we could get lucky. Reserve for the deadline certainly isn't a bad idea, and I wouldn't hate it if that's what we do, but it's not a guaranteed win either. May not be anyone available for what we'd have to trade that would fill whatever hypothetical need we'd have (which, with roster B, would probably be a scorer). You also have only a short time for the new player(s) to gel with the team.

2 legit scoring lines + 2 legit grinder/energy lines > 1 legit scoring line, 2 mediocre scoring lines + 1 legit grind line

Or if you rearrange your roster B lines to bolster the top 6:

2 legit scoring lines + 2 legit grinder/energy lines > 2 legit scoring lines, 1 legit grind line + 1 nothing line that can't score or grind

Team w/Kovy > Team w/o

My worry is that we'll end up with Roster B, but without the space to add anything at the deadline. That is what I think is really the most likely. A season of posts debating if Nick is worth $6 mil, 'Bert sucks' threads, 'trade Flip' threads, 'Hudler is awful' threads, and 'Why did we pay Winchester $2 mil? We could have kept Eaves for half that and he's better!' threads.

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Well this is getting fun now.

Let's look at those rosters:

First, you forgot to pay the goalies. That's $2.2. So roster A is $1.5 over cap. B is $0.1 under. But you also didn't increase the cap. Reports are that it will go up close to a million. $57.7 is a number that's been quoted, so using that, it puts A at $0.6 over, B $1.0 under.

So, working on Roster A. Subtract Hudler, now we're $2.3 under cap. Turn those scrubs you inexplicably hired into Helm (1.2), Eaves (1.0), and Miller (1.0), and we're left with $0.6 for another forward for the 4th line. Despite what you may think, cheap forwards that can play are available. There were about a dozen players making 600k or less that scored over 10 goals. Quite a few more that likely would have had they played full seasons. Many of them are solid defensively, capable of killing penalties. We had 3 of them in fact. It's not a stretch to think we could find a solid 4th liner for that price. Moreover, it's possible we could lower some of the other salaries a little, maybe freeing up another 300-500k which greatly expands the range of players available.

So now, we lose:

Bertuzzi - 18 goals (if we're lucky, aging and an injury history...)

Filppula - 20 goals (it's a bit of a stretch, especially if you bury him on the third line, but ok...)

Hudler - 23 goals

61 goals

We gain:

Miller - 10 goals

SCRUB - 10 goals

Kovalchuk - 40 goals

60 goals. Looks fairly even at first, BUT Kovy would make Datsyuk and Homer better. Bert makes them worse. So add another 10 goals at least for that.

But you're also probably worrying about a 'lack of depth'. Thinking with Roster B, if someone in the top 6 goes down, Flip or Happy can step in. And if it's Bert, Homer, or Cleary, yeah, we'd be alright. Franzen? Not so much. Pav or Hank, that's still trouble. Just like this year, if one of those three were hurt, we'd struggle to score goals. We couldn't make more than one good line.

With Kovy we get another premier scorer. Someone who has proven he can be a threat by himself. So now if Homer or Cleary go down, pretty much anyone can step in and do ok, as they'll have 2 big players with them. Kovy or Mule goes down, we'd still have one excellent line, and another that wouldn't be any worse than your 'top' line in Roster B. Losing Pav or Hank would still hurt like hell, but again, we'd have one legit top line, and a second anchored by Kovy, one of the top snipers in the league. Rather than losing depth, we GAIN depth in a vital area.

Nothing we can do will insure us against a rash of injuries like we had this year. So no point even worrying about it. If it happens again, we'll just have to hope it's not so many key players and/or it happens early enough to allow us time to recover. The same is true with whatever roster we put together.

Would the above be better than using the $1-2 million in available space as reserve for a deadline move? Or to upgrade Lilja? Or maybe Eaves or Bertuzzi?

Maybe, maybe not. $3 mil isn't really enough to get an impact player, but we could get lucky. Reserve for the deadline certainly isn't a bad idea, and I wouldn't hate it if that's what we do, but it's not a guaranteed win either. May not be anyone available for what we'd have to trade that would fill whatever hypothetical need we'd have (which, with roster B, would probably be a scorer). You also have only a short time for the new player(s) to gel with the team.

2 legit scoring lines + 2 legit grinder/energy lines > 1 legit scoring line, 2 mediocre scoring lines + 1 legit grind line

Or if you rearrange your roster B lines to bolster the top 6:

2 legit scoring lines + 2 legit grinder/energy lines > 2 legit scoring lines, 1 legit grind line + 1 nothing line that can't score or grind

Team w/Kovy > Team w/o

My worry is that we'll end up with Roster B, but without the space to add anything at the deadline. That is what I think is really the most likely. A season of posts debating if Nick is worth $6 mil, 'Bert sucks' threads, 'trade Flip' threads, 'Hudler is awful' threads, and 'Why did we pay Winchester $2 mil? We could have kept Eaves for half that and he's better!' threads.

So you want to let go of:

Filppula

Hudler

Bertuzzi

In exchange for one player: Kovalchuk?

Your roster looks thin at best:

Kovalchuk ($7)-Datsyuk ($6.7)-Holmstrom($1.8)

Cleary(2.8)-Zetterberg($6.1)-Franzen($4)

Miller(1.2)-Helm(1.2)-SCRUB(.500)

SCRUB($.500)-Abdelkader($1.2)-Draper($1.6)

Ritola ($.775)

Lidstrom($5)-Ralfi($6)

Kronwall($3)-Stuart($3.7)

Lilja($1)-Ericsson($.900)

Kindl($.900)

That does not look like a playoff roster to me. What does the remaining playoff teams in the west have in common this year? Depth.

As for your threads "Bertuzzi sucks", "trade Filppula", "Hudler is awful"... I'm pretty sure there was some threads by New Jersey Devils' fans about their displeasure with Kovalchuk. And Kovy will get those threads on LGWs too. My biggest worry isn't just next season and lack of depth, but the future of the Red Wings. How many long contracts do you want Holland to sign? I think Red Wings have enough long contracts. People want Holland to throw 10-15 year contracts to the flavor of the year player every year. Kovalchuk is no different. No.Long.Contracts.Please

Holland already stated the top 6 is set. If Kovalchuk approached Holland to sign a $1-year deal for $4 or 5 million, then I'll be all for it! But I seriously doubt that'll ever happen. I'm pretty sure Kovalchuk is looking for $9+ million per year with a long contract. My guess is he's off to the KHL for his huge payday.

Holland already stated that he only wants to improve the bottom 6. He sayed the top 6 is set, and if Lidstrom re-signs, then the defense is set.

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So you want to let go of:

Filppula

Hudler

Bertuzzi

In exchange for one player: Kovalchuk?

Your roster looks thin at best:

Kovalchuk ($7)-Datsyuk ($6.7)-Holmstrom($1.8)

Cleary(2.8)-Zetterberg($6.1)-Franzen($4)

Miller(1.2)-Helm(1.2)-SCRUB(.500)

SCRUB($.500)-Abdelkader($1.2)-Draper($1.6)

Ritola ($.775)

Lidstrom($5)-Ralfi($6)

Kronwall($3)-Stuart($3.7)

Lilja($1)-Ericsson($.900)

Kindl($.900)

That does not look like a playoff roster to me. What does the remaining playoff teams in the west have in common this year? Depth.

As for your threads "Bertuzzi sucks", "trade Filppula", "Hudler is awful"... I'm pretty sure there was some threads by New Jersey Devils' fans about their displeasure with Kovalchuk. And Kovy will get those threads on LGWs too. My biggest worry isn't just next season and lack of depth, but the future of the Red Wings. How many long contracts do you want Holland to sign? I think Red Wings have enough long contracts. People want Holland to throw 10-15 year contracts to the flavor of the year player every year. Kovalchuk is no different. No.Long.Contracts.Please

Holland already stated the top 6 is set. If Kovalchuk approached Holland to sign a $1-year deal for $4 or 5 million, then I'll be all for it! But I seriously doubt that'll ever happen. I'm pretty sure Kovalchuk is looking for $9+ million per year with a long contract. My guess is he's off to the KHL for his huge payday.

Holland already stated that he only wants to improve the bottom 6. He sayed the top 6 is set, and if Lidstrom re-signs, then the defense is set.

I get it now. You can't actually argue with me, so you just replace parts of my roster with 'SCRUB', as apparently any player making a low wage is completely incapable of adding anything to a team. I mean, it's not like any team has ever had a player making under $600k score 10+ goals, or be a primary penalty killer, or earn praise for high-energy play...much less 3 of said players in the same year. Eaves and some player making $600-800k couldn't possibly contribute anything to a team. So yeah, just insert a derogotory term or two into my lineup and pretend that I suggested trading 3 players for Kovy. But whatever.

I'd be willing to do another long-term deal for Kovy. One of the best goal scorers of our era. 3 isn't an overwhelming number, but I can understand not wanting to do it. Whether it would be bad for the future or not, no one knows. It's a risk, not a guaranteed failure. And you could be 'pretty sure' about anything you want concerning Kovalchuk's intentions. You're still just guessing. If Kovy wants to play for a winner, he has to sign for a reasonable deal. $5-7 million. Maybe he doesn't care, maybe he does. You don't know anything.

And Kenny said he's only looking for help for the bottom 6. He never said he doesn't want to improve the top 6. He likely just doesn't think we can. The man added Hossa to a Cup winning roster. Nothing can ever be good enough. You always improve if you have the ability. But he obviously doesn't believe we could get enough money for Kovy. I'm fine with that, but I'd like to see him try. I think he will in some ways, but he may fear insulting Nick, or going to arbitration, or whatever. Again, I'm fine with it if that's what happens, so long as he at least leaves us some space for a possible deadline deal.

So, to finish, since it looks like so much fun, I'm going to randomly replace players in your roster.

Your roster looks thin at best:

Bertuzzi ($1.5)-A can of aerosol cheese ($6.7)-Holmstrom($1.8) = $10

Cleary(2.8)-Zetterberg($6.1)-a fish($4) = $12.9

Hudler(2.9)-Filppula($3.0)-Eaves(1.2) = $7.1

Abdelkader($1.2)-Helm($1.2)-Draper($1.6) = $4

Ritola ($.775)

Total $34

Lidstrom($5)-Ralfi($6)

Kronwall($3)-the color orange($3.7)

Lilja($1)-Ericsson($.900)

Meech($900)

Total $20.5

$54.5

Cap $56.8

Have fun in the draft lottery, cheesefish!

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I get it now. You can't actually argue with me, so you just replace parts of my roster with 'SCRUB', as apparently any player making a low wage is completely incapable of adding anything to a team. I mean, it's not like any team has ever had a player making under $600k score 10+ goals, or be a primary penalty killer, or earn praise for high-energy play...much less 3 of said players in the same year. Eaves and some player making $600-800k couldn't possibly contribute anything to a team. So yeah, just insert a derogotory term or two into my lineup and pretend that I suggested trading 3 players for Kovy. But whatever.

If you get Kovalchuk, that's what Holland will need; a bunch of $.500 - $.600k players to fill holes. (goodbye depth)

I'd be willing to do another long-term deal for Kovy. [...] You don't know anything.

Holland isn't interested in signing another long-term deal. He could of had Hossa and Franzen by moving some players last year. Especially at the cap hit Hossa took in Chicago.

And Kenny said he's only looking for help for the bottom 6. He never said he doesn't want to improve the top 6.

Holland is looking for support guys. - Source

He likely just doesn't think we can. The man added Hossa to a Cup winning roster. Nothing can ever be good enough. You always improve if you have the ability. But he obviously doesn't believe we could get enough money for Kovy. I'm fine with that, but I'd like to see him try. I think he will in some ways, but he may fear insulting Nick, or going to arbitration, or whatever. Again, I'm fine with it if that's what happens, so long as he at least leaves us some space for a possible deadline deal.

Using Hossa two years ago doesn't help your argument. Do you remember the circumstances how we got Hossa? Do you remember Zetterberg and Franzen's salary that year? Like I said before, Holland told mlive that whoever signs first (between Hossa and Franzen) gets to stay in Detroit. Franzen took the deal, Hossa did not. Holland could have found a way to re-sign Hossa at the cap hit he took in Chicago by moving some players/salary, but Holland wasn't giving out anymore long-term contracts after Franzen got his deal.

So, to finish, since it looks like so much fun, I'm going to randomly replace players in your roster.

Your roster looks thin at best:

Bertuzzi ($1.5)-A can of aerosol cheese ($6.7)-Holmstrom($1.8) = $10

Cleary(2.8)-Zetterberg($6.1)-a fish($4) = $12.9

Hudler(2.9)-Filppula($3.0)-Eaves(1.2) = $7.1

Abdelkader($1.2)-Helm($1.2)-Draper($1.6) = $4

Ritola ($.775)

Total $34

Lidstrom($5)-Ralfi($6)

Kronwall($3)-the color orange($3.7)

Lilja($1)-Ericsson($.900)

Meech($900)

Total $20.5

$54.5

Cap $56.8

Have fun in the draft lottery, cheesefish!

Seriously? m'kay

I'll finish this off with a Holland quote he made just two days ago:

"We're looking for support guys. We'd like to get a little grittier on the fourth line, get somebody who's a pain to play against, who'll get in on the forecheck. Someone we can put in there in the playoffs and he's got enough skill and he's a factor because of his physical play."

Sure glad Holland is our GM!

Do.Not.Want.Kovalchuk!

Edited by Heaten

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