• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

Sign in to follow this  
HockeytownRules19

It's Official: Happy Hudler is Back

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

oh and for the record there are 2 distinct types of hockey.... North American and European, its just the way it is so live with it. Just like Finlland is different from the czechs, western canada hockey is different then french style of hockey.

This was the post I replied to. Are most of you people actually so lazy that you can't look at the previous page? Or do you actually belive that North American vs. European s***?

What have been Team Finland's strenghts for the past 20 years? We've had barely any big time scorers or game-breakers. USA, Canada, Slovakia, Czech Rep., Russia... they've all had plenty of those kinda players - great individuals.

Yet Team Finland has performed at the same level (sometimes higher) than these teams. You think it has all been goaltending or what? Do you seriously think that Team USA has worked harder and played with more heart? Then why hadn't they had that kinda success despite always possessing a strong team?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LOL. I was comparing Team Finland's playing style with Team USA and Team Canada. How does it have anything to do with those individual players you are naming? Learn to read people.

I don't see anywhere in the past few pages of the thread where the national teams are talked about. While this is apparently what you meant to focus on, it is unclear in your posts until this point that you are referring to the national teams. Also, personal attacks won't get you too far in this debate.

It is useless to compare Olympic results before 1995- the year the agreement between the NHL and IIHF allowed NHL players to participate. Also, most international tournaments are played on European sized ice, which gives an advantage to the European countries. In addition, the European players are given time off from their professional teams to participate in international tournaments. This should lead to increased performance from more play as a team.

You used the present tense in your claim that Finnish players play a more Canadian style than the US players. Therefore, we can only compare the most recent national tournaments and NHL play to debate this topic intellectually. in the most recent tournaments where NHL players and draftees were allowed to compete, the US teams performed very well. While Finland has outperformed expectations in the past, they are considered a top-6 international team by many fans (see HFBoards). The Finnish team has many great/star players. Therefore, their success isn't solely heart and work-ethic- they are a skilled team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see anywhere in the past few pages of the thread where the national teams are talked about. While this is apparently what you meant to focus on, it is unclear in your posts until this point that you are referring to the national teams. Also, personal attacks won't get you too far in this debate.

It is useless to compare Olympic results before 1995- the year the agreement between the NHL and IIHF allowed NHL players to participate. Also, most international tournaments are played on European sized ice, which gives an advantage to the European countries. In addition, the European players are given time off from their professional teams to participate in international tournaments. This should lead to increased performance from more play as a team.

You used the present tense in your claim that Finnish players play a more Canadian style than the US players. Therefore, we can only compare the most recent national tournaments and NHL play to debate this topic intellectually. in the most recent tournaments where NHL players and draftees were allowed to compete, the US teams performed very well. While Finland has outperformed expectations in the past, they are considered a top-6 international team by many fans (see HFBoards). The Finnish team has many great/star players. Therefore, their success isn't solely heart and work-ethic- they are a skilled team.

Then you must be blind, because it's right at the top of this page. "Then I don't know how you determine the types, because for example Finland plays more Canadian type hockey than USA." If that isn't discussing national teams, then I don't know what it is?

Why should we compare only Olympic results? I think it shows a lot of heart when you go playing in the WC to represent your country. Finland has as well some players in the playoffs still playing just like USA - just on a smaller scale. It doesn't really change the big picture at all. We saw it this year's WC again. USA lost to both Denmark and Germany and was the last of the group and had to go on the qualifying stage. I think it showed that they were not willing to work as hard as the other teams and their superior material didn't help them because weren't willing to do so.

Also, you seriously think that ice advantage has anything to do with Finland having better results than USA? Best Finnish players play in the NHL as well. USA has still always had better material. It's ridicolous to use excuses like ice-size or more time to gel while USA has had a superior roster on the paper.

How many star players have Finland had in the past years? Goaltending has always been good, but there can only be one goalie on the ice at a time. Teemu Selanne isn't a star anymore. Mikko Koivu isn't a star yet. We don't have guys like Kane or Parise (and rarely had in the past either).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Then you must be blind, because it's right at the top of this page. "Then I don't know how you determine the types, because for example Finland plays more Canadian type hockey than USA." If that isn't discussing national teams, then I don't know what it is?

Why should we compare only Olympic results? I think it shows a lot of heart when you go playing in the WC to represent your country. Finland has as well some players in the playoffs still playing just like USA - just on a smaller scale. It doesn't really change the big picture at all. We saw it this year's WC again. USA lost to both Denmark and Germany and was the last of the group and had to go on the qualifying stage. I think it showed that they were not willing to work as hard as the other teams and their superior material didn't help them because weren't willing to do so.

Also, you seriously think that ice advantage has anything to do with Finland having better results than USA? Best Finnish players play in the NHL as well. USA has still always had better material. It's ridicolous to use excuses like ice-size or more time to gel while USA has had a superior roster on the paper.

How many star players have Finland had in the past years? Goaltending has always been good, but there can only be one goalie on the ice at a time. Teemu Selanne isn't a star anymore. Mikko Koivu isn't a star yet. We don't have guys like Kane or Parise (and rarely had in the past either).

To me, and apparently most of the other posters in this thread, saying Finland hockey is not a sufficient way to refer to the Finnish national team. Most of the people here (and in NA as a whole) focus on the NHL more than international play. Therefore, a reference to Finnish hockey is taken into context as players in the NHL or the development leagues there. Communication is only clear if others perceive it to be.

What star players did the US World Championship team have? Backstrom, Selanne, Koivu's, Hagman, Flip, etc are all top-two line players in the NHL that played in the 2010 Olympics. Finland also has some of the best goalies in the world. Please don't act like Finland has the talent of the Swiss when they are clearly superior to most of the teams at IIHF events. The US has recently made great strides in developing teams for the IIHF junior (U20, U18) events and it is showing in the results.

Have you ever played organized hockey? Please don't assume that the US is not at a disadvantage when their players play in the IIHF events irregularly. The European countries (the rosters iced at non-olympic events) spend much more time playing as a team. This is an advantage, as team-work>skill when the skill difference is small. The larger ice presents a disadvantage to the players and coaches. There is a different style of play, and the adjustment period is likely longer than the few practices the NA teams have. The US has the advantage of skill on paper, but the European teams have ice-size, practice time, team-work, etc on their side. These should not be overlooked. Please do not correlate under-performance and heart. Saying that Finnish players have more heart than US players is too overarching and incorrect (ignorant). You can make specific examples (for both sides), but please refrain from these unprovable blanket statements.

If you would like to continue this discussion, please feel free to PM me or start a new thread. Also, HFBoards has a section for this type of debate. http://hfboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=4 I think we have derailed this topic too much with our banter.

Back on topic, has Holland or Babcock signaled where Huds might play next year? Although he has 2nd line talent, I think the team would be best served with him on the third line (with PP time).

Edited by WorkingOvertime

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LOL. I was comparing Team Finland's playing style with Team USA and Team Canada. How does it have anything to do with those individual players you are naming? Learn to read people.

USA have always had much more skilled players than Team Finland. We have never been amongst the favourites, yet we have been able to win the most olympic medals since -88. Working hard and working together has always been the label of Team Finland.

Did I say Team USA doesn't have any heart or what?

I was comparing Team Finland's playing style with Team USA. Team Finland plays more like Team Canada than Team USA does. Please read through the other arguments instead of just replying to one post.

Please read through the whole conversation before posting a stupid reply regarding one post.

We were talking about Team Finland, Team USA and Team Canada. Understand? Doesn't have s*** to do with the players you've played against in your childhood.

First of all, those are Canadian players you're naming. Learn to read (also, learn to write). Did I say someone has "no heart"? No, I don't think so.

How does one player like OJ or Leino being something anything to do with Team Finland's style of play?

Just an all around iditoc reply by you. So much fail in that post that I'm not gonna even comment any further about it.

Team USA have always had much more skill than Team Finland. Yet somehow Team Finland has had about equal or better results for the past twenty years. We've never had any real scorers or stars. Team Finland has always been about working hard together.

Also, you do understand that there are over 300 million people living in the United States. There are 5 million people living in Finland. Finland has more NHL players per capita than USA.

So lemme get this straight..correct me if i'm possibly misunderstanding this again but..American players,such as David Backes,Brooks Orpik(although i hate his guts),Ryan Malone,and Tim Gleason don't have as much heart and they don't work as hard as players such as Olli Jokinen?I rest my case.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So lemme get this straight..correct me if i'm possibly misunderstanding this again but..American players,such as David Backes,Brooks Orpik(although i hate his guts),Ryan Malone,and Tim Gleason don't have as much heart and they don't work as hard as players such as Olli Jokinen?I rest my case.

Haha. So Olli Jokinen is the basic Finnish player in your opinion? You're so frikin stupid that it's not worth the time to even try to argue with you.

Koivu bros have more heart than all those players.

The fact is that if you've ever even watched Team USA and Team Finland play, you'd know that Finland plays with more heart and works harder.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To me, and apparently most of the other posters in this thread, saying Finland hockey is not a sufficient way to refer to the Finnish national team. Most of the people here (and in NA as a whole) focus on the NHL more than international play. Therefore, a reference to Finnish hockey is taken into context as players in the NHL or the development leagues there. Communication is only clear if others perceive it to be.

What star players did the US World Championship team have? Backstrom, Selanne, Koivu's, Hagman, Flip, etc are all top-two line players in the NHL that played in the 2010 Olympics. Finland also has some of the best goalies in the world. Please don't act like Finland has the talent of the Swiss when they are clearly superior to most of the teams at IIHF events. The US has recently made great strides in developing teams for the IIHF junior (U20, U18) events and it is showing in the results.

Have you ever played organized hockey? Please don't assume that the US is not at a disadvantage when their players play in the IIHF events irregularly. The European countries (the rosters iced at non-olympic events) spend much more time playing as a team. This is an advantage, as team-work>skill when the skill difference is small. The larger ice presents a disadvantage to the players and coaches. There is a different style of play, and the adjustment period is likely longer than the few practices the NA teams have. The US has the advantage of skill on paper, but the European teams have ice-size, practice time, team-work, etc on their side. These should not be overlooked. Please do not correlate under-performance and heart. Saying that Finnish players have more heart than US players is too overarching and incorrect (ignorant). You can make specific examples (for both sides), but please refrain from these unprovable blanket statements.

If you would like to continue this discussion, please feel free to PM me or start a new thread. Also, HFBoards has a section for this type of debate. http://hfboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=4 I think we have derailed this topic too much with our banter.

Did I say "Finland hockey"? No. I said Finland and USA.

If I say Finland plays like this and USA plays like that and Germany plays like that how am I not referring to the national teams? To what am I referring then? I think the international games show perfectly what kinda identities different countries have. Czechs don't play like Canada in the international games because they've got different type of players. It may change slightly when the players or coach change, but the identity stays there still. Finland has always have much common with Canada in their style of play.

Please don't act like Saku Koivu or Niklas Hagman is a STAR. You obviously know that USA has much better material on the paper. There's no need to even argue that. Hagman and Saku Koivu wouldn't even make the USA team. I doubt Selanne would either. Also, like I said there can only be one goalie in the net at a time so having depth there won't help much in international tournaments.

How has team Finland any more time to practice than Team USA? Anyway, to blame the ice-size is ******* ridiculous. You lose to Germany and Denmark and go to the qualifying games with the best material of the group. Of course the ice-size matters but it doesn't matter much at all when looking at the big picture. If we compare Team Finland and Team USA the ice-size is pretty small advantage when you think about the material of Team USA. And no matter how big the ice is, it's pretty pathetic that Team USA is qualifying.

well name me off some hard-working Finnish plays with an infinite amount of heart and effort bud.

"So you're saying that guys like Mikko Koivu, Saku Koivu, Tuomo Ruutu and Teemu Selanne have less heart than Brett Lebda?"

Start wearing goofy suits made from old curtains and you're well on your way to becoming the Finnish Cherry. :thumbup:

You know that in that sentence by "Finnish players" I meant "players of Team Finland". I can't find any other major reason for Finland playing better than USA in international games for the past years than working hard and having more heart.

I'd also like to add that there are only TWO countries in the world where ice-hockey is the number one sport. The other is Canada...

Edited by Finnish Wing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did I say "Finland hockey"? No. I said Finland and USA.

If I say Finland plays like this and USA plays like that and Germany plays like that how am I not referring to the national teams? To what am I referring then? I think the international games show perfectly what kinda identities different countries have. Czechs don't play like Canada in the international games because they've got different type of players. It may change slightly when the players or coach change, but the identity stays there still. Finland has always have much common with Canada in their style of play.

Please don't act like Saku Koivu or Niklas Hagman is a STAR. You obviously know that USA has much better material on the paper. There's no need to even argue that. Hagman and Saku Koivu wouldn't even make the USA team. I doubt Selanne would either. Also, like I said there can only be one goalie in the net at a time so having depth there won't help much in international tournaments.

How has team Finland any more time to practice than Team USA? Anyway, to blame the ice-size is ******* ridiculous. You lose to Germany and Denmark and go to the qualifying games with the best material of the group. Of course the ice-size matters but it doesn't matter much at all when looking at the big picture. If we compare Team Finland and Team USA the ice-size is pretty small advantage when you think about the material of Team USA. And no matter how big the ice is, it's pretty pathetic that Team USA is qualifying.

"So you're saying that guys like Mikko Koivu, Saku Koivu, Tuomo Ruutu and Teemu Selanne have less heart than Brett Lebda?"

"Haha.So Brett Lebda is the basic American player in your opinion?You're so frikin stupid that its not worth the time to try to even argue with you."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did I say "Finland hockey"? No. I said Finland and USA.

If I say Finland plays like this and USA plays like that and Germany plays like that how am I not referring to the national teams? To what am I referring then? I think the international games show perfectly what kinda identities different countries have. Czechs don't play like Canada in the international games because they've got different type of players. It may change slightly when the players or coach change, but the identity stays there still. Finland has always have much common with Canada in their style of play.

Please don't act like Saku Koivu or Niklas Hagman is a STAR. You obviously know that USA has much better material on the paper. There's no need to even argue that. Hagman and Saku Koivu wouldn't even make the USA team. I doubt Selanne would either. Also, like I said there can only be one goalie in the net at a time so having depth there won't help much in international tournaments.

How has team Finland any more time to practice than Team USA? Anyway, to blame the ice-size is ******* ridiculous. You lose to Germany and Denmark and go to the qualifying games with the best material of the group. Of course the ice-size matters but it doesn't matter much at all when looking at the big picture. If we compare Team Finland and Team USA the ice-size is pretty small advantage when you think about the material of Team USA. And no matter how big the ice is, it's pretty pathetic that Team USA is qualifying.

As I said, if you would like to debate this further with me, please start a new thread or PM me. You've dug yourself a hole by saying, and attempting to defend, that Finish hockey is more like Canadian hockey than US hockey is. The consequential jump to saying US players have less heart is particularly ignorant/offensive as it was an overarching and overreaching statement. You are entitled to your opinion, but you won't find many people who will agree with you on this point. Lets try to keep this topic on Huds, and debate international hockey elsewhere.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I said, if you would like to debate this further with me, please start a new thread or PM me. You've dug yourself a hole by saying, and attempting to defend, that Finish hockey is more like Canadian hockey than US hockey is. The consequential jump to saying US players have less heart is particularly ignorant/offensive as it was an overarching and overreaching statement. You are entitled to your opinion, but you won't find many people who will agree with you on this point. Lets try to keep this topic on Huds, and debate international hockey elsewhere.

That's mostly because there are more American than Finnish people on this planet.

I can say I haven't dugged any holes recently. If you've watched international games for the last 20 years you'd see that USA have played no where near to where they should when you look at the material and the biggest reason have been lack of working hard enough.

Anyway, that first post was a reply to a post which said that "there is only European and North American" hockey - meaning that hockey in Finland and hockey in Czech Rep. is all basically same - which is total bulls***. Team USA doesn't play as well as a team as Team Finland does and they don't defend as good as Team Finland does.

USA is only 6th at the world rankings (Finland being 4th and 3rd before the latest tournament). Their material is top3 however. What is the biggest reason for playing under expectations if it's not working hard enough? Size of the rink? International rules? Bad luck? Those sound more like excuses to me.

Many times I see the Team USA play they remind me of the good ol' times when they used to just come to WC to have a nice vacation in Europe. It just somehow shows that hockey isn't as big there as it is in Finland or Canada. To me it's lack of heart.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Finnish Wing being a ****** homer, as he usually is.

Had this been a Finnish hockey forum, I think there would be most people agreeing with what I said.

Dumbass from Finland made a comment about American hockey which we,naturally,took offense too.

I'm sorry. Hockey just isn't as big there as it is in here. Hockey doesn't mean as nearly as much to Americans as it means to Finns.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Had this been a Finnish hockey forum, I think there would be most people agreeing with what I said.

I'm sorry. Hockey just isn't as big there as it is in here. Hockey doesn't mean as nearly as much to Americans as it means to Finns.

Of course a Finnish forum would agree with you,but this isn't a Finnish forum,is it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How much heart was shown by the USA in these past Olympics?

Just admit you made a slip of the fingers on your keyboard.

You call people out for saying Ollie is the representative of Finnish heart, and then yourself use Lebda, well lets see how many more international games does Ollie have under his belt compared to Lebda? Who is more of a representative of Hockey for their country?

You listed what 5 Finnish players with Heart, and one of the Koivu brothers I would say has part time heart, but that is my opinion.

I can list 5 US born players under the age of 25 with heart, I get your per capita argument but that is just a shovel you are trying to use to dig out of your hole.

OH BTW you definitely dug yourself a hole!

Are you sure you would have more supporters on a Finnish board, as it is I don't see many Finnish fans coming to your aid here!

Your statement was a blanket statement that you should have used qualifiers on, you didn't now you look like DRW02(for the old school LGWers) and Mindfly, admit you made a dumb statement, happens to the best of us and the worst of us!

Back on Topic,

I welcome Huds back with open arms, he will provide secondary scoring which was sorely lacking at times this season.

I think he and Holland both knew something along these lines would happen, I think had the Wings not been under cap problems Huds would have never gone to the KHL, as he did say before leaving the only team in the NHL he wanted to play for was the Wings.

But I am kind of gullible and until I have a reason usually take people at their word.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On topic: YAY HUDLER!!!

On Finnish Wing topic: Looking at the World Championships since 2010, the US has consistently under-performed while Finland has over-achieved. Their respective records speak for themselves. But boiling the "why" down to which national team plays with the most heart is the hight of single-mindedness and, looking at this thread, brings out some serious douchebaggery.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MY COUNTRY'S BETTER THAN YOUR COUNTRY!!! NANNY NANNY POO POO!!!

Sorry, I'm not good at this trash talking bit. I'm also not good at trying to make jokes.

*shrugs*

Made me smile at least. But then again it is quite erm late over here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this