212 replies to this topic

[WorkingOvertime]

Then I don't know how you determine the types, because for example Finland plays more Canadian type hockey than USA.

Can you please explain this more in-depth?

[Finnish Wing]

Can you please explain this more in-depth?

Finnish players have more heart and they work harder.

[eva unit zero]

Finnish players have more heart and they work harder.

Brian Rolston, Mike Knuble, Aaron Ward, etc. don't have heart or work hard?

[thedisappearer]

Finnish players have more heart and they work harder.

Wow, that's an incredibly stupid and offensive thing to say.

[WorkingOvertime]

Finnish players have more heart and they work harder.

Wow. Care to show some evidence of that fact? Growing up in the US, I played against teams from all over the US and Canada at the AA and AAA levels. The style of play was not much different, and I don't see how a large divergence could occur between midgets (15-18 year olds) and the higher levels. As far as heart and work-ethic are considered, I would be weary of making over-arching judgments on any country.

Back on topic- I am glad to see Huds back. Unfortunately, he might (should) be on the third line to give us another scoring line. He'll also get PP time, so hopefully be can still get 15+ min a night.

[Lidstromboli]

Brian Rolston, Mike Knuble, Aaron Ward, etc. don't have heart or work hard?

Brian Rolston
heart?
hard work?

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros]

Finnish players have more heart and they work harder.

So Yzerman and Shanahan didnt have heart?McCarty didn't have heart?none of them worked hard?What about a guy like Mike Richards?he doesn't have heart or work hard?What a ridiculously stupid comment to make when you have nothing to back it up.Olli Jokinen does not have what I consider heart.Everyone knows he causes problems within the team he's playing for.Just an all around idiotic thing to say.wow.

[Opie]

Not to be a dink Bring back the bruise brothers but you just named 3 Canadian players, he said Finnish players play more Canadian style than US born players.

His intentions (I think) were to say that Finnish players do indeed play like Shanny, Yzerman and the such.

[WorkingOvertime]

Finnish players have more heart and they work harder.

Did you watch the Olympics or World Juniors this past year? Both US teams out-worked and out-performed higher skilled teams to exceed expectations. Also, when comparing NHL players, there are a lot more US players than Finnish players. Therefore, for every five (roughly) US players that are 'lazy with no heart' only one would Finnish player would have to be 'lazy with no heart' for the percentages to be equal.

[Finnish Wing]

LOL. I was comparing Team Finland's playing style with Team USA and Team Canada. How does it have anything to do with those individual players you are naming? Learn to read people.

USA have always had much more skilled players than Team Finland. We have never been amongst the favourites, yet we have been able to win the most olympic medals since -88. Working hard and working together has always been the label of Team Finland.

Brian Rolston, Mike Knuble, Aaron Ward, etc. don't have heart or work hard?

Did I say Team USA doesn't have any heart or what?

I was comparing Team Finland's playing style with Team USA. Team Finland plays more like Team Canada than Team USA does. Please read through the other arguments instead of just replying to one post.

Wow, that's an incredibly stupid and offensive thing to say.

Please read through the whole conversation before posting a stupid reply regarding one post.

Wow. Care to show some evidence of that fact? Growing up in the US, I played against teams from all over the US and Canada at the AA and AAA levels. The style of play was not much different, and I don't see how a large divergence could occur between midgets (15-18 year olds) and the higher levels. As far as heart and work-ethic are considered, I would be weary of making over-arching judgments on any country.

Back on topic- I am glad to see Huds back. Unfortunately, he might (should) be on the third line to give us another scoring line. He'll also get PP time, so hopefully be can still get 15+ min a night.

We were talking about Team Finland, Team USA and Team Canada. Understand? Doesn't have s*** to do with the players you've played against in your childhood.

So Yzerman and Shanahan didnt have heart?McCarty didn't have heart?none of them worked hard?What about a guy like Mike Richards?he doesn't have heart or work hard?What a ridiculously stupid comment to make when you have nothing to back it up.Olli Jokinen does not have what I consider heart.Everyone knows he causes problems within the team he's playing for.Just an all around idiotic thing to say.wow.

First of all, those are Canadian players you're naming. Learn to read (also, learn to write). Did I say someone has "no heart"? No, I don't think so.

How does one player like OJ or Leino being something anything to do with Team Finland's style of play?

Just an all around iditoc reply by you. So much fail in that post that I'm not gonna even comment any further about it.

Did you watch the Olympics or World Juniors this past year? Both US teams out-worked and out-performed higher skilled teams to exceed expectations. Also, when comparing NHL players, there are a lot more US players than Finnish players. Therefore, for every five (roughly) US players that are 'lazy with no heart' only one would Finnish player would have to be 'lazy with no heart' for the percentages to be equal.

Team USA have always had much more skill than Team Finland. Yet somehow Team Finland has had about equal or better results for the past twenty years. We've never had any real scorers or stars. Team Finland has always been about working hard together.

Also, you do understand that there are over 300 million people living in the United States. There are 5 million people living in Finland. Finland has more NHL players per capita than USA.

Edited by Finnish Wing, 23 May 2010 - 05:17 PM.

[Finnish Wing]

oh and for the record there are 2 distinct types of hockey.... North American and European, its just the way it is so live with it. Just like Finlland is different from the czechs, western canada hockey is different then french style of hockey.

This was the post I replied to. Are most of you people actually so lazy that you can't look at the previous page? Or do you actually belive that North American vs. European s***?

What have been Team Finland's strenghts for the past 20 years? We've had barely any big time scorers or game-breakers. USA, Canada, Slovakia, Czech Rep., Russia... they've all had plenty of those kinda players - great individuals.

Yet Team Finland has performed at the same level (sometimes higher) than these teams. You think it has all been goaltending or what? Do you seriously think that Team USA has worked harder and played with more heart? Then why hadn't they had that kinda success despite always possessing a strong team?

[WorkingOvertime]

LOL. I was comparing Team Finland's playing style with Team USA and Team Canada. How does it have anything to do with those individual players you are naming? Learn to read people.

I don't see anywhere in the past few pages of the thread where the national teams are talked about. While this is apparently what you meant to focus on, it is unclear in your posts until this point that you are referring to the national teams. Also, personal attacks won't get you too far in this debate.

It is useless to compare Olympic results before 1995- the year the agreement between the NHL and IIHF allowed NHL players to participate. Also, most international tournaments are played on European sized ice, which gives an advantage to the European countries. In addition, the European players are given time off from their professional teams to participate in international tournaments. This should lead to increased performance from more play as a team.

You used the present tense in your claim that Finnish players play a more Canadian style than the US players. Therefore, we can only compare the most recent national tournaments and NHL play to debate this topic intellectually. in the most recent tournaments where NHL players and draftees were allowed to compete, the US teams performed very well. While Finland has outperformed expectations in the past, they are considered a top-6 international team by many fans (see HFBoards). The Finnish team has many great/star players. Therefore, their success isn't solely heart and work-ethic- they are a skilled team.

[Finnish Wing]

I don't see anywhere in the past few pages of the thread where the national teams are talked about. While this is apparently what you meant to focus on, it is unclear in your posts until this point that you are referring to the national teams. Also, personal attacks won't get you too far in this debate.

It is useless to compare Olympic results before 1995- the year the agreement between the NHL and IIHF allowed NHL players to participate. Also, most international tournaments are played on European sized ice, which gives an advantage to the European countries. In addition, the European players are given time off from their professional teams to participate in international tournaments. This should lead to increased performance from more play as a team.

You used the present tense in your claim that Finnish players play a more Canadian style than the US players. Therefore, we can only compare the most recent national tournaments and NHL play to debate this topic intellectually. in the most recent tournaments where NHL players and draftees were allowed to compete, the US teams performed very well. While Finland has outperformed expectations in the past, they are considered a top-6 international team by many fans (see HFBoards). The Finnish team has many great/star players. Therefore, their success isn't solely heart and work-ethic- they are a skilled team.

Then you must be blind, because it's right at the top of this page. "Then I don't know how you determine the types, because for example Finland plays more Canadian type hockey than USA." If that isn't discussing national teams, then I don't know what it is?

Why should we compare only Olympic results? I think it shows a lot of heart when you go playing in the WC to represent your country. Finland has as well some players in the playoffs still playing just like USA - just on a smaller scale. It doesn't really change the big picture at all. We saw it this year's WC again. USA lost to both Denmark and Germany and was the last of the group and had to go on the qualifying stage. I think it showed that they were not willing to work as hard as the other teams and their superior material didn't help them because weren't willing to do so.

Also, you seriously think that ice advantage has anything to do with Finland having better results than USA? Best Finnish players play in the NHL as well. USA has still always had better material. It's ridicolous to use excuses like ice-size or more time to gel while USA has had a superior roster on the paper.

How many star players have Finland had in the past years? Goaltending has always been good, but there can only be one goalie on the ice at a time. Teemu Selanne isn't a star anymore. Mikko Koivu isn't a star yet. We don't have guys like Kane or Parise (and rarely had in the past either).

[hardcoretom21]

Wow this thread got derailed big time

[germanwing]

[WorkingOvertime]

Then you must be blind, because it's right at the top of this page. "Then I don't know how you determine the types, because for example Finland plays more Canadian type hockey than USA." If that isn't discussing national teams, then I don't know what it is?

Why should we compare only Olympic results? I think it shows a lot of heart when you go playing in the WC to represent your country. Finland has as well some players in the playoffs still playing just like USA - just on a smaller scale. It doesn't really change the big picture at all. We saw it this year's WC again. USA lost to both Denmark and Germany and was the last of the group and had to go on the qualifying stage. I think it showed that they were not willing to work as hard as the other teams and their superior material didn't help them because weren't willing to do so.

Also, you seriously think that ice advantage has anything to do with Finland having better results than USA? Best Finnish players play in the NHL as well. USA has still always had better material. It's ridicolous to use excuses like ice-size or more time to gel while USA has had a superior roster on the paper.

How many star players have Finland had in the past years? Goaltending has always been good, but there can only be one goalie on the ice at a time. Teemu Selanne isn't a star anymore. Mikko Koivu isn't a star yet. We don't have guys like Kane or Parise (and rarely had in the past either).

To me, and apparently most of the other posters in this thread, saying Finland hockey is not a sufficient way to refer to the Finnish national team. Most of the people here (and in NA as a whole) focus on the NHL more than international play. Therefore, a reference to Finnish hockey is taken into context as players in the NHL or the development leagues there. Communication is only clear if others perceive it to be.

What star players did the US World Championship team have? Backstrom, Selanne, Koivu's, Hagman, Flip, etc are all top-two line players in the NHL that played in the 2010 Olympics. Finland also has some of the best goalies in the world. Please don't act like Finland has the talent of the Swiss when they are clearly superior to most of the teams at IIHF events. The US has recently made great strides in developing teams for the IIHF junior (U20, U18) events and it is showing in the results.

Have you ever played organized hockey? Please don't assume that the US is not at a disadvantage when their players play in the IIHF events irregularly. The European countries (the rosters iced at non-olympic events) spend much more time playing as a team. This is an advantage, as team-work>skill when the skill difference is small. The larger ice presents a disadvantage to the players and coaches. There is a different style of play, and the adjustment period is likely longer than the few practices the NA teams have. The US has the advantage of skill on paper, but the European teams have ice-size, practice time, team-work, etc on their side. These should not be overlooked. Please do not correlate under-performance and heart. Saying that Finnish players have more heart than US players is too overarching and incorrect (ignorant). You can make specific examples (for both sides), but please refrain from these unprovable blanket statements.

If you would like to continue this discussion, please feel free to PM me or start a new thread. Also, HFBoards has a section for this type of debate. http://hfboards.com/...display.php?f=4 I think we have derailed this topic too much with our banter.

Back on topic, has Holland or Babcock signaled where Huds might play next year? Although he has 2nd line talent, I think the team would be best served with him on the third line (with PP time).

Edited by WorkingOvertime, 23 May 2010 - 06:49 PM.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros]

LOL. I was comparing Team Finland's playing style with Team USA and Team Canada. How does it have anything to do with those individual players you are naming? Learn to read people.

USA have always had much more skilled players than Team Finland. We have never been amongst the favourites, yet we have been able to win the most olympic medals since -88. Working hard and working together has always been the label of Team Finland.

Did I say Team USA doesn't have any heart or what?

I was comparing Team Finland's playing style with Team USA. Team Finland plays more like Team Canada than Team USA does. Please read through the other arguments instead of just replying to one post.

Please read through the whole conversation before posting a stupid reply regarding one post.

We were talking about Team Finland, Team USA and Team Canada. Understand? Doesn't have s*** to do with the players you've played against in your childhood.

First of all, those are Canadian players you're naming. Learn to read (also, learn to write). Did I say someone has "no heart"? No, I don't think so.

How does one player like OJ or Leino being something anything to do with Team Finland's style of play?

Just an all around iditoc reply by you. So much fail in that post that I'm not gonna even comment any further about it.

Team USA have always had much more skill than Team Finland. Yet somehow Team Finland has had about equal or better results for the past twenty years. We've never had any real scorers or stars. Team Finland has always been about working hard together.

Also, you do understand that there are over 300 million people living in the United States. There are 5 million people living in Finland. Finland has more NHL players per capita than USA.

So lemme get this straight..correct me if i'm possibly misunderstanding this again but..American players,such as David Backes,Brooks Orpik(although i hate his guts),Ryan Malone,and Tim Gleason don't have as much heart and they don't work as hard as players such as Olli Jokinen?I rest my case.

[germanwing]

[Finnish Wing]

So lemme get this straight..correct me if i'm possibly misunderstanding this again but..American players,such as David Backes,Brooks Orpik(although i hate his guts),Ryan Malone,and Tim Gleason don't have as much heart and they don't work as hard as players such as Olli Jokinen?I rest my case.

Haha. So Olli Jokinen is the basic Finnish player in your opinion? You're so frikin stupid that it's not worth the time to even try to argue with you.

Koivu bros have more heart than all those players.

The fact is that if you've ever even watched Team USA and Team Finland play, you'd know that Finland plays with more heart and works harder.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros]

Haha. So Olli Jokinen is the basic Finnish player in your opinion? You're so frikin stupid that it's not worth the time to even try to argue with you.

Koivu bros have more heart than all those players.

well name me off some hard-working Finnish plays with an infinite amount of heart and effort bud.