Put Ozzy in.

[Raptor1116 11]

Ask yourself how Osgood did in '93-'94 that's a more fair comparison.

Hmm and if I remember correctly Ozzie found himself on the bench for the playoffs in 95 and 96. Exactly where Howard should find himself next year and should have found himself this year.

[MTU_Huskies963 398]

Some nights it looks like Howard just converted to butterfly style. I do feel it's time to let ozzie have a go to shake things up. Just as you would pull a goalie that is getting lit up in a single game, because of the team playing like crap. This series should be 2-1 Howard should not have let in the first and third goal. The wings also should not have sat back and put all the pressure on the rookie.

[Dano33 41]

Howard has let in as many goals as Ozzie did in '98 while playing 12 LESS GAMES!

I don't care what team is in front of you if you are playing in 12 less games you should not let in as many goals as the other guy.

And why is it that when Ozzie does well it's always, "Well, look at the team that played in front of him." He has never been given credit and I don't understand it. He was only the best goalie in the playoffs the past two seasons and a 3 time Cup winner.

Where are you getting this info from?

Osgood gave up 48 goals in the 98 cup run. Howard has given up 30 this year.

Am I missing something?

[Finnish Wing 110]

Howard is better goalie than Ozzie is right now. It would be stupid to put him in now. Howard will probably play most of the games next season even if he played worse than this season. Red Wings have no other choice but to play Howard, because Ozzie is old. I'd try to trade for a real elite goaltender in the future though.

[Raptor1116 11]

Where are you getting this info from?

Osgood gave up 48 goals in the 98 cup run. Howard has given up 30 this year.

Am I missing something?

Ah well, honestly I didn't fact check. A guy posted it a few pages back and I was still fuming from the game so I just ran with it because I wouldn't have doubted it if true.

My blood pressure is starting to come back down now.

[gcom007 1,465]

Ask yourself how Osgood did in '93-'94 that's a more fair comparison.

Osgood was 20 and had to come in for relief for a floundering team and he helped the team get to game 7. He's remembered for a horrible play the ended up costing them the game, and it was a terrible play, no doubt about it. But his overall effort was solid all factors considered. Osgood was a runner-up for the Vezina and an All Star by the time he was 25. It makes comparing them fairly tough.

Bottom line, in this Wings era, and it hasn't changed tremendously in the last 4 years, Howard has been the worst goalie (edit: in the playoffs), and he's the guy that apparently was good enough to take a healthy Osgood's spot. Osgood's coming off two outstanding playoff runs. Babcock was playing with fire starting Howard if you ask me and I've been saying it for awhile, and as of a result of that, you have to call it how it is. I'm not going to hold it against him because he's a rookie, but I'm not going to sugarcoat how poorly he's played thus far in the playoffs.

Edited May 5, 2010 by gcom007

[Raptor1116 11]

Howard's now let in as many goals as Osgood did on the entire '98 Cup run...

That's where I first saw it.

[Dano33 41]

That's where I first saw it.

I see. I think it's possible that he meant 08 cup run. Osgood gave up 30 in 19 games that year.

Edited May 5, 2010 by Dano33

[brett 1,029]

ill allow ozzie to be in the next game. if he lets up a goal on a simple shot he has to be pulled. but ill give him a chance

[Carman 387]

Osgood was 20 and had to come in for relief for a floundering team and he helped the team get to game 7. He's remembered for a horrible play the ended up costing them the game, and it was a terrible play, no doubt about it. But his overall effort was solid all factors considered. Osgood was a runner-up for the Vezina and an All Star by the time he was 25. It makes comparing them fairly tough.

Bottom line, in this Wings era, and it hasn't changed tremendously in the last 4 years, Howard has been the worst goalie, and he's the guy that apparently was good enough to take a healthy Osgood's spot. Osgood's coming off two outstanding playoff runs. Babcock was playing with fire starting Howard if you ask me and I've been saying it for awhile, and as of a result of that, you have to call it how it is. I'm not going to hold it against him because he's a rookie, but I'm not going to sugarcoat how poorly he's played thus far in the playoffs.

That's fair, Howard's a big boy and does deserve the criticism.

But to give up on him and say trade for a real goalie is just mind boggling to me after the year he's had. The Wings system has really tried to have a solid low salary goaltender and play a puck possession style game which didn't require a goalie to make 40+ stops. Unfortunately we ran into a team that can do it better.

Now about Osgood this year it's tough and a debate no one is going to win. Did Osgood deserve more chances? Probably. Did Howard deserve all the starts he got? Probably.

There is no clear answer for it, but personally I'm hopeful for the future. Howard kept the Wings in games in the playoffs and carried them in the regular season. I'd love to see how Howard would do in front of a better Wings line up that could execute the puck possession strategy more.

There aren't many goalies that pull a Patrick Roy and dominate their first time in the playoffs. Miller/Luongo/Nabakov all have had labels at one time or another. Goaltending is a fickle position and how a goalie is viewed can be changed in a milisecond, a goalie can go from the top (Kippersoff) to the bottom (Theodore). Overall Howard has been very consistent this year. Playoffs did leave something to be desired without a doubt, but he didn't get completely bombed and embarrassed, and considering the Wings team in front of him I personally give him a break. He kept games close and made some big saves while the Wing's players have been outplayed.

Edited May 5, 2010 by Carman

[Finnish Wing 110]

That's fair, Howard's a big boy and does deserve the criticism.

But to give up on him and say trade for a real goalie is just mind boggling to me after the year he's had. The Wings system has really tried to have a solid low salary goaltender and play a puck possession style game which didn't require a goalie to make 40+ stops. Unfortunately we ran into a team that can do it better.

Now about Osgood this year it's tough and an debate no one is going to win. Did Osgood deserve more chances? Probably. Did Howard deserve all the starts he got? Probably.

Their is no clear answer for it, but personally I'm hopeful for the future. Howard kept the Wings in games in the playoffs and carried them in the regular season. I'd love to see how Howard would do in front of a better Wings line up that could execute the puck possession strategy more.

There aren't many goalies that pull a Patrick Roy and dominate their first time in the playoffs. Miller/Luongo/Nabakov all have had labels at one time or another. Goaltending is a fickle position and how a goalie is viewed can be changed in a milisecond, a goalie can go from the top (Kippersoff) to the bottom (Theodore). Overall Howard has been very consistent this year. Playoffs did leave something to be desired without a doubt, but he didn't get completely bombed and embarrassed, and considering the Wings team in front of him I personally give him a break. He kept games close and made some big saves while the Wing's players have been outplayed.

This is the key. I doubt we'll have guys like Lidstrom in the future anymore. Goaltending has become even more important. Howard would have to be even better than Ozzie was in his prime. I doubt that will happen.

Howard has been great this season. But every "signs" are kinda saying that he won't be an elite goaltender. It's about mental toughness, fundamentality, outplaying the opposition goaltender and making game savers. I just haven't seen enough of everything of those from Howard. Of course there are exceptions like Tim Thomas, who aren't fundamentally good but can still have great season. Howard also lets in soft goals, but the problem isn't the soft goals, but the fact that he doesn't bounce back like elite goalies do. It's the mental toughness. Also, he didn't outplay Bryz even tough we won. Phoenix just sucked. Bryzgalov made numerous key saves and Howard even lost that one game for us.

Edited May 5, 2010 by Finnish Wing

[Carman 387]

How many "elite" goalies are actually in the NHL.

You don't need to be "elite" to win in the playoffs.

You need to be streaky and be consistent.

Is Fleury "elite", was Cam Ward "elite", was Marty Turco "elite".

Hell the some of the "elite" goalies in the league statistically haven't even been deep in the playoffs.

I have faith that Howard is good enough to get the job done in the playoffs. He didn't get there this year, but I believe he can.

[AIK'91 22]

I doubt we'll have guys like Lidstrom in the future anymore.

I doubt the NHL will see another player like Lidstrom in our lifetimes.

[Finnish Wing 110]

How many "elite" goalies are actually in the NHL.

You don't need to be "elite" to win in the playoffs.

You need to be streaky and be consistent.

Is Fleury "elite", was Cam Ward "elite", was Marty Turco "elite".

Hell the some of the "elite" goalies in the league statistically haven't even been deep in the playoffs.

I have faith that Howard is good enough to get the job done in the playoffs. He didn't get there this year, but I believe he can.

Fleury is a goalie who has all those except maybe mental toughness. The difference is that Fleury plays in a team that has or at least will have better players in front of him. Lidstrom will be gone and it's going to be a HUGE loss.

Turco and Ward are playing for teams that aren't Cup contenders every year like the Red Wings SHOULD be so I'm not commenting on that. I'm not satisfied if we win one Cup and suck after that like Carolina.

[gcom007 1,465]

That's fair, Howard's a big boy and does deserve the criticism.

But to give up on him and say trade for a real goalie is just mind boggling to me after the year he's had. The Wings system has really tried to have a solid low salary goaltender and play a puck possession style game which didn't require a goalie to make 40+ stops. Unfortunately we ran into a team that can do it better.

Now about Osgood this year it's tough and a debate no one is going to win. Did Osgood deserve more chances? Probably. Did Howard deserve all the starts he got? Probably.

There is no clear answer for it, but personally I'm hopeful for the future. Howard kept the Wings in games in the playoffs and carried them in the regular season. I'd love to see how Howard would do in front of a better Wings line up that could execute the puck possession strategy more.

There aren't many goalies that pull a Patrick Roy and dominate their first time in the playoffs. Miller/Luongo/Nabakov all have had labels at one time or another. Goaltending is a fickle position and how a goalie is viewed can be changed in a milisecond, a goalie can go from the top (Kippersoff) to the bottom (Theodore). Overall Howard has been very consistent this year. Playoffs did leave something to be desired without a doubt, but he didn't get completely bombed and embarrassed, and considering the Wings team in front of him I personally give him a break. He kept games close and made some big saves while the Wing's players have been outplayed.

I agree about giving up on Howard. As I've said all along, you don't know s*** about a goalie in their rookie year. That's also why I didn't want him starting in the playoffs! But it's going to take more time for him to prove whether he's got what it takes to be a solid NHL goalie. I think he's got a real solid chance, and this playoff run doesn't influence my opinion on the matter towards the negative either. After all, I expected this which is why it's so hard to stomach on some level. And again, not because I think Howard sucks, but because I don't think you're doing a team or a goalie any good going with the rookie.

[Carman 387]

Have to give the rookie a shot eventually don't ya gcoom?

[gcom007 1,465]

Have to give the rookie a shot eventually don't ya gcoom?

Yeah, after he watches how a veteran does it for a couple years!

[zettie85 106]

I agree about giving up on Howard. As I've said all along, you don't know s*** about a goalie in their rookie year. That's also why I didn't want him starting in the playoffs! But it's going to take more time for him to prove whether he's got what it takes to be a solid NHL goalie. I think he's got a real solid chance, and this playoff run doesn't influence my opinion on the matter towards the negative either. After all, I expected this which is why it's so hard to stomach on some level. And again, not because I think Howard sucks, but because I don't think you're doing a team or a goalie any good going with the rookie.

He needs the experience whether it's good or bad.He can build on it next time around. I think it was a great decision to go with Howard in the playoffs. It still was the best decision because he needs to get games under his belt sooner or later. I'd rather it be now.

[Carman 387]

Yeah, after he watches how a veteran does it for a couple years!

He's been in the Wing's organization for the last couple years though. He gotten great examples from Osgood the past two years.

[gcom007 1,465]

He's been in the Wing's organization for the last couple years though. He gotten great examples from Osgood the past two years.

Being around the NHL all season, and being a true backup in the playoffs is a far different story than being one of the "black aces" the last couple of years. But again, can't stress enough just how big of a difference being a true NHLer is from being a minor-league call up. If there wasn't, we probably wouldn't have traded good old what's that call up "stars" name? Oh yeah, Ville Leino...

And if it's true for skaters, it's 10X more true for goalies...

[HockeyCoach13 84]

Well, we will find out soon, whether it be osgood or howard in net, best luck to the wings. id be more into the game if osgood was in net, it would be just like old times watching the wings kick ass. if howards in net im just going to be depressed and mad and definite that they will lose.

[wings_fanatic 677]

If my calculations are correct, Jimmy Howard has let in 33 goals in just 10 playoff games... that is unacceptable. I have never been a fan of Howard; yes he helped the Wings get into the post-season but I never found him to be consistant with his saves and I knew it would be a mistake to not play ozzy to get him ready for playoffs and start him in the playoffs. 33 goals in 10 games is terrible and Jimmy REALLY sent the Wings golfing with his performance in game 3... While the Wings can come back it is unlikely, and I think Babs is probably sitting right now thinking that he made a HUGE mistake by not playing Ozzy in the playoffs.

At this point, the Wings are down 3-0 and have nothing to lose; I say start Ozzy in game 4. If the Wings are to win this series, they need a major shake-up like a goalie change anyways, so I say get Ozzy in there and aim for a comeback.

[digitaljohn88 4]

Howard is a physically and technically a better goalie than Osgood is right now.

But I do believe we'd be doing better had Osgood played more and gotten the start in the playoffs.

It's impossible to know that now though.

[puckhog419 0]

At first, I was thinking that Jimmy should stay in the net since he is the reason we got this far. After tonight's game I am thinking that Ozzy should be put in. Ozzy is a playoff goalie and can come from the bench and help us like hasek did in '08. Either jimmy or ozzy in net though, will not matter if the rest of the team does not show up.

[asmith18 3]

We have had Howard in for all of the first round and 3 games in the 2nd. Putting Ozzy in on the possibilty of being eliminated is not fair to the team or him. We have to stick with Howard. Howard is still a ROOKIE, he can get better and stay consistently good. Ozzy hasn't played in a while and will have a lot of rust.

The Sharks know they can advance to the third round so they will be playing their hearts out Game 4 and it would be embarassing to lose like 7-0 or something. Yes Game 4 is win or go home.

The team needs to defend their goalie not depend on the goalie to make ALL the saves.