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Game 3 Officiating


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#1 Wings_Dynasty

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 08:52 AM

Now that the media is finally awake and paying attention to what the officials are both calling and missing, I predict a lot more "let them play" situations for the upcoming games.

The Wings do have a chance to win this series. If the refs give calls both ways (meaning that PPs end up about even at the end of the game), as well as let them play the game (don't call every damn thing) then both teams will play to their potential and the Wings will win.

In the end, the refs are causing the Wings to play a different game than the Sharks. When you are getting all the PPs you can be more aggressive, and the opposite happens when you constantly going to the box. The Wings are playing a more physical game this year (see PHX series) and for some reason they are getting called for it more against SJ than they were against PHX.

I know that each round gets more and more press, and the refs are probably feeling the pressure to not f*ck up the games, so they are probably going more by the book. But the game isn't confined to the book. If it was, every after-whistle scrum would have roughing penalties attached to it.

Just let them play and catch the big stuff and stuff with blood involved. Wings in 6.

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It still would be nice to have that one guy.


#2 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 08:59 AM

i predict 14 red wing penalties to the sharks 2. the sharks will go 1 for 14 on the PP and the wings will go 2 for 2. this will anger bettman :lol:

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#3 titanium2

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 09:07 AM

So what if the refs make it one sided in the Red Wings favor for Games 3 and 4 and the Wings end up winning? How would you guys feel about that?

I'm not really sure what is fair and what isn't these days but I wouldn't feel right about it. I mean, really, what the hell is going on here with the game of hockey? What has happened to my skoooo? (+1 if you get the reference).

#4 Wings_Dynasty

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 09:09 AM

So what if the refs make it one sided in the Red Wings favor for Games 3 and 4 and the Wings end up winning? How would you guys feel about that?

I'm not really sure what is fair and what isn't these days but I wouldn't feel right about it. I mean, really, what the hell is going on here with the game of hockey? What has happened to my skoooo? (+1 if you get the reference).



South Park.

If it is lopsided for the Wings, my brain will probably say "Well, we're even now" but my heart will say "We need KHL refs."

"I think a tough team, a team that sticks together, is a lot better than leaving the onus on one guy to take care of business." - Brendan Shanahan

 

It still would be nice to have that one guy.


#5 chuklz

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 09:10 AM

When you spend 18 minutes in the box and you still keep up on the scoreboard- you're a rocking team. At even strength we're gonna rock em.

#6 Octopus's Garden

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 09:14 AM

So what if the refs make it one sided in the Red Wings favor for Games 3 and 4 and the Wings end up winning? How would you guys feel about that?

I'm not really sure what is fair and what isn't these days but I wouldn't feel right about it. I mean, really, what the hell is going on here with the game of hockey? What has happened to my skoooo? (+1 if you get the reference).


I would be fine with it. The refs owe Detroit at least one.

#7 gcom007

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 09:22 AM

I don't know. The media's been all over the Red Wings inability to put in a full 60 minutes. That's yet to change, so why should the refs change? Hmmmmm............

This is silly, any way it goes. s***ty refs or not, both those games were winnable and the Wings did everything in their power to lose while giving the refs every opportunity possible to make s*** calls.
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#8 Grypho

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 09:25 AM

Now that the media is finally awake and paying attention to what the officials are both calling and missing, I predict a lot more "let them play" situations for the upcoming games.


I think that's essentially right, but I wouldn't predict "a lot more". Some for sure. Officials normally loosen the grip gradually over a series anyway, and even more from series to series. But I also think that what might appear as more "let them play" situations on the officials' parts will actually be a product (in part at least) of more disciplined play all around (i.e., much less to call in the first place).

If the refs give calls both ways (meaning that PPs end up about even at the end of the game)...


If the number of actual penalties goes both ways ("about even"), then obviously the calls should be made accordingly. But if the refs were to deliberately make calls with the express aim of keeping the PP's "about even", just for the sake of staying even, then I would call that a form of insanity, not to mention incentive for one team to make real penalties wherever they count most.

I actually don't have a problem with so-called "makeup calls", even though no official would ever officially admit to doing it. The idea there is to make up for a bad call, not to divvy up an even proportion of penalty minutes to each team. That would be ludicrous. After all, the rationale would go, your team could get the benefit of a penalty chosen to be taken in the moment, all the while safe and secure in the knowledge that the refs are just going to "even it all up" in the end, even if it means looking for an excuse to give the other team a penalty, one that perhaps shouldn't even count, or that they didn't choose to make. In other words, you're essentially encouraging refs to lie. To deliberately make bad/soft calls, at least some of the time.

I predict an ever-so-slightly longer leash for Game 3, and woe to any player on either team that is caught flagrantly diving, as I do think there will be a new hypersensitivity to that (and so said my memo to Setoguchi this morning).

#9 SouthernHockeyHoney

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 09:26 AM

My only comment is that I wish I had been a fly on the wall of Mickey Redmond's house last night. I wonder if he woke up the entire neighborhood? I know, this isn't exactly contructive nor adds anything meaningful to the discussion; but I'm still angry. :ranting:
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#10 Holmstrom96

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 10:03 AM

*Some* of the Wings' game 2 penalties were deserved, however, stuff isn't getting called both ways and San Jose is also be rewarded for constant diving.

We deserved to lose Game 1, but Game 2 could have been ours if it was called evenly. I have no idea why the calls were so lop-sided.

#11 matt198913

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 10:07 AM

I mean I cannot wrap my mind around this one.
BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#12 mmamolo

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 10:21 AM

If the number of actual penalties goes both ways ("about even"), then obviously the calls should be made accordingly. But if the refs were to deliberately make calls with the express aim of keeping the PP's "about even", just for the sake of staying even, then I would call that a form of insanity, not to mention incentive for one team to make real penalties wherever they count most.


If you, or anyone else, think that refs and the league don't try to have PP time end up roughly even at the end of the day you're dreaming. Take a look at the stats. They are almost always within a close proximity. It's jsut the way it's done. The thing you have to remember is that the way they achieve this isn't to create calls that aren't just happening when one team has taken far more penalties than the other. During the course of a game there are penalties happening constantly. There are some that the refs have no choice but to call (i.e. puck over the glass in the d-zone, drawing blood with a high stick etc.) but there are also the hooks, interference etc that the refs simply pick and choose when and where to call. Over the course of the game they'll decide based on the momentum and flow of the game when to pick out those offenses. Some plays will slide and others won't. That's why every now and then you'll see a ticky tack hooking penalty get called. That's also why you'll see games that are 5-1 with 10 mins in the 3rd have a parade of players go to the box even though the offenses aren't crazy.

It's all a numbers game. They want to be able to say when the games and series' are done that things were fair. The refs will point to the stats and and hide behind the PP time and oppotunity. The problem is the stats don't show the how and when of these penalties and how they affect the flow and momentum of a game.
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#13 Grypho

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 10:39 AM

If you, or anyone else, think that refs and the league don't try to have PP time end up roughly even at the end of the day you're dreaming. Take a look at the stats. They are almost always within a close proximity. It's jsut the way it's done.


I'm having trouble with that one, as I've seen too many games where those stats were lopsided as hell, and only because one team really was taking penalties, and/or otherwise gooning it up lot more than the other. But even if I believed that it's "just the way it's done", if anyone ever tried made that an official declaration, as if it's somehow a good thing, even to attempt, I'd denounce it for the dishonesty and unfairness, in principle, that it is. On its face.

If really they wanted, as you suggest, to be able to say that things were done fairly, it wouldn't begin with the presumption that all teams basically execute the same number of penalties. Because they don't. Otherwise, there wouldn't even be a stat that say Detroit is "the second least penalized team" in the regular season (and not by a small margin either). In such a case that stat would be meaningless, and might as well have been a coin flip or random place ranking for each team.

#14 clutchngrab

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 10:46 AM

NHL playoff officiating has always been...arbitrary to be nice about it. However, since the rules change combined with the loss of many of the more experienced refs, we have seen a degradation of officiating every year and it keeps getting worse. I'm not sure how long I can watch this game. It's nothing like hockey I watched growing up and the game is certainly not better for it.
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#15 acidroach420

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 10:53 AM

Now that the media is finally awake and paying attention to what the officials are both calling and missing, I predict a lot more "let them play" situations for the upcoming games.


I'm just wondering where these articles are. I'd love to see what the media is saying because i cant really find anything that is not from a rabid wings fan.

#16 Electrophile

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 10:56 AM

The officiating will suck, just like the officiating in Games 1 and 2 sucked. There's no conspiracy to screw with the Wings or anything, just flat-out incompetence on the part of the refs. They can't do their jobs properly, so everyone gets it in the end.

There needs to be more accountability when the refs are blatantly this bad, but we all know that'll never happen. It would require Bettman to both admit something is wrong and then work toward fixing it, but that takes effort and he can't be bothered to show that effort.

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#17 nate94gt

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 11:02 AM

My only comment is that I wish I had been a fly on the wall of Mickey Redmond's house last night. I wonder if he woke up the entire neighborhood? I know, this isn't exactly contructive nor adds anything meaningful to the discussion; but I'm still angry. :ranting:

to be honest, im glad FSN wasnt doing last nights game. Ken Daniels would probably have had to talk over mickey constantly, and that looks bad on his part, even though he really has to do that to get mickey to be quiet :(
i love you mick, but the man needs to chill every now and then and realize that those penalties are going to be called now days.

#18 mjtm77

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 11:06 AM

The officiating will suck, just like the officiating in Games 1 and 2 sucked. There's no conspiracy to screw with the Wings or anything, just flat-out incompetence on the part of the refs. They can't do their jobs properly, so everyone gets it in the end.

There needs to be more accountability when the refs are blatantly this bad, but we all know that'll never happen. It would require Bettman to both admit something is wrong and then work toward fixing it, but that takes effort and he can't be bothered to show that effort.

I agree completely with this It has been bad all playoffs. So manny highsticks that have been missed and lots of other s***.
I think it would help if they put a challange flag or something like that into the game. who cares if it delays the game just make the right call.
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#19 Hank

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 11:33 AM

So what if the refs make it one sided in the Red Wings favor for Games 3 and 4 and the Wings end up winning? How would you guys feel about that?

I'm not really sure what is fair and what isn't these days but I wouldn't feel right about it. I mean, really, what the hell is going on here with the game of hockey? What has happened to my skoooo? (+1 if you get the reference).


I'd hate it! Just like I dispised the Heatley penalty late in the game. That was a terrible call.
But I hated it for 2 reasons:

1. It wasn't a penalty.
2. The ref used it as a make-up call. Essentially that tells every fan and player that "We've been f**king you over all game long so here's a freebie". It acknowledges what a poor job they've done.

I really hope they call the standard evenly for game 3 and none of that ticky-tack crap like Howard's slashing or Abby's interference.

And most of the shenanigans that are taking place out there will end the minute one of the zebra's grows a pair and calls the Sharks for diving. It embarrasses the officials and the NHL.

#20 esteef

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 11:36 AM

Food for thought, comments from one of the tin foil hat wearers:

"Remember the NBA ref who confessed to fixing games? He also acknowledged the league's (Bettman at the time) involvement in helping to make sure it gets the outcomes it desires for TV ratings, franchise help, merch sales, etc. He claimed on 60 Minutes he could predict the outcome of a game 80% of the time just by reading the pre-game league memo to the officials"

Mlive column

Just sayin'...
esteef
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