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Who would you most blame for a round 2 loss?


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#81 HankthaTank

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 05:08 PM

Howard has not played his best which has hurt, but its FAR from his fault for 3-0. The D has played good for 2 periods and then it just disappears like most. Can't blame the Babs that much but these lines could be juggled a bit. Yep must be Skid Mark Crosby.
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#82 F.Michael

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 05:20 PM

I just laughed at this post.
Do you not remember Edmonton? Calgary? Anaheim? A bunch of noshows in all those previous series a few ago and all forwards. What are you talking about? We s***ted on all of those guys, Shanny etc, at the time for their hugely pathetic goal production.
Scoring 4 goals a game should be enough. Howard has been pathetic in the timing of these sorties. It's one thing to give up one off your ass and in, when the scores 6-0, but in a tight hard fought playoff game where EVERY goal means something especially when you're only up by 1 or 2.
Call a spade a spade. The problem is NOT scoring, it's our goaltending.
And even more frustrating is the fact we ain't even getting much regular production from some of our other guys, yet we ARE scoring enough. Until the puck comes into our zone ....

Um...Let me clue you into something here...Look at my "joined date of May 2007"...I wasn't here to join in on the fun of forward bashing in those playoff failures :rolleyes:

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#83 gcom007

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 06:16 PM

it has been discussed already here ad nauseaum. Ogood was projected starting goalie but he did absolutely everything to loose his job. Later team had no chance than ride on Howard because team deperstely needed points. there was no room for errors anymore.

in short : without Howard = no playoffs.


See, the thing is, I never bought any of it, and I'm certainly not the only one. Plenty predicted rather accurately how this was likely to go down. And I've said the same thing all along that people are just realizing and saying now. The problem is that so many people have selective memories and easily ignore facts in the present.

While Jimmy Howard was playing great, Osgood was going weeks to months between starts. Then, according to the masses he's "blowing his chances." Really? One game out of nowhere once in a blue moon is "blowing every chance?" I never bought it then, and I sure as hell don't buy it now.

And look all over the map over the last couple weeks and you'll read and hear a lot of comments like these:

"Looking back on it, Osgood was never given a fair chance to get going."

"It was stupid to let Osgood sit for so long."

"Osgood wasn't playing as bad as the year before when he was able to turn it on in the playoffs."

"Why on earth didn't Babcock go with the veteran who was the best goalie of the last two post-seasons?"

Listen to the radio; hosts are dropping these lines and fans calling in are dropping them. Read the papers and you'll see writers saying it there too. And even here on lgw.com we've got people backpedaling over the matter.

If you go back, you'd find that more than a few of us were saying this stuff all along. And I'm not saying that it's rocket science; it just makes all the sense in the world if you cut the "hype" bulls***. Hype rarely ever plays out to be worth all the commotion it causes.

And I ask you, in all honesty, what's it worth to ride a rookie goalie to the playoffs only to watch him crumble under the pressure as if it wasn't inevitable especially in this town coming off of two outstanding playoff runs? Not much if you ask me. Some people are calling this "experience" for Jimmy Howard.

Well here's something else that people just might be backpedaling on six months: this "experience" might have a profoundly negative effect on Howard. We've seen goalies get burnt out early more often than not in the NHL, and there's no reason Jimmy Howard is going to magically be exempt to the effect. That's certainly not to say that I think he's screwed because of this, but I'm certainly not ignoring the potential given all the factors involved and the history of countless other goalies to suffer the same fate before him.

All the risks involved weren't worth it to me six months ago, and those risks look all the more like mistakes now that the regular season fog has cleared.

Babcock NEVER gave Osgood anything close to a fair, reasonable chance to get his game going. Someone at his level should be smart enough to know that no matter how well a rookie plays in the regular season, chances are he's going to struggle in the post-season; better to go with the guy who's got the experience if you want to give yourself the best chance to win.

And isn't that the point? People seem content to have just made it into the playoffs, and while I don't want to minimize the accomplishment or act like a spoiled brat, but I want to win every year, and I don't think any guy in that locker room will tell you otherwise. If you want to win every year, you need to give yourself the best chance; you need to go with what you know works. Chris Osgood obviously has worked in the past.

So what do you do? Simple. Everything you can to give Osgood a chance to get going. He's a champion. If you don't believe he wouldn't have found a way to get his game going with a true to life playoff race on, you must not have been watching this guy the last couple of years in April, May and June. Osgood lives for the playoffs, and he would've risen to the occasion if given a few consistent starts or at least a steady, predictable rotation. I have absolutely no doubt about that, just as I had no doubt that he could come in on the 2008 run and carry this team to a Cup, and just how I had no doubt that he could be that guy again even after an abysmal regular season last year.

I had and have no doubt in Chris Osgood because the guy has proven throughout his long career that he has what it takes to be a champion, and when you've got a guy like that in the room, you do everything you can get him going.

But Babcock chose to let the champion sit and rot on the bench while setting up a rookie goalie to fail, so again, in my mind, this one's entirely on Mike Babcock.
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#84 UP Wings Fan

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 09:12 PM

I think that it is time for Babcock to make a change to the system and style that the Wings play. All the other teams have developed systems targeted to beat the Wings, and the Wings have stood still. The coaching staff needs to step up their effort and come up with a way for this team to continue to excel!

#85 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 09:18 PM

I just expected ALOT more from him. I mean he didn't win us any games in the Phoenix series, he just was OK. He's supposed to be great, he has been great. He has had Halak style performances. But he's just a little mentally weak for some reason. It's not a good sign in my opinion. He's been bad, he's not been himself.


Are you high? Howard had a shut out in game 4 and only 1 goal against in game 5. How is a collective GAA of 0.5 over two games 'just ok'? The attending media voted Howard as the 1st star in both of those games (one being a home game and one being an away game).

You could argue that Howard wasn't fantastic in game 7 but he did keep the Wings in the game until they were able to get a choke hold on the 'yotes. His play in game 7 wasn't nearly as impressive as games 4 and 5, but damn man-- you must be smoking something.

Howard was the best player on the ice in games 4 and 5.
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#86 Finnish Wing

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 09:22 PM

Howard was the best player on the ice in games 4 and 5.

He also lost us game and a half that series. And I don't agree he was the best player on the ice in any game except the shutout. Zetterberg was a beast.
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#87 mjtm77

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 09:35 PM

Ill say refs because we get penalties for playing hockey :rolleyes:
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#88 Yellowknife Redwing

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 09:38 PM

Chances are I'd blame the Sharks. As far as I know they've scored the game winning goal in every Wings round 2 loss. Can anybody confirm?

Edited by Yellowknife Redwing, 05 May 2010 - 09:39 PM.


#89 miller76

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 09:45 PM

I picked Crosby, because I don't want to blame anyone. The whole team hasn't been playing. The refs are unmanagable, so why bother.
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#90 mackel

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 09:49 PM

I think the entire team has failed,after making the hard fought push to make the playoffs since the olympic break the entire team looks gased to me.Also I just don't think Howard has what it takes to make it in the playoffs. He's like Legace,a great season goalie,but come crunch time he just isn't good enough.

We all know at the end of the day it's a team sport,but we just don't have the goaltending this year to get the job done.I had to work tonight and didn't get to see the game,but being up 3-1 midway in the 3rd,there's no excuse for losing this game.We have to find a number one goalie this summer,or next year will be more of the same.



For those folks blaming Howard and saying we should get a new goalie... lets stop for a moment and go back in time to about what 93... I seem to recall Osgood gaffing it up against the Sharks we were supposed to win walking away. My point is not to bash Osgood but to say we can't give up on Howard this early.

However, I am very ready to give up on Ericsson, that guy needs to disappear and soon.

#91 Red Storm

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 10:00 PM

That's the nail on the head Howard's goaltending floundered . But Babcock also compouned things by not pulling him out. Not that Osgood perhaps would have saved the day ; and we won't ever know if that. . But just maybe the team might have gotten a boost with somebody coming up with a timely save once and awhile. Its not only letting a bad goal in but when you do it, and Howards timing could not have been worse .C'est la vie in Detroit until the message sinks in that you got stop skimping on goaltending. Anyone out there?

#92 FabHckyBbe

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 01:05 AM

Chances are I'd blame the Sharks. As far as I know they've scored the game winning goal in every Wings round 2 loss. Can anybody confirm?

Actually, the Sharks scored every game winning goal in round one against the Avs as well. In game 1 the GWG went off Blake's skate and into the net. In game 3 Boyle shot it into our own net in OT. That was fun. :rolleyes:
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#93 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 01:37 AM

He also lost us game and a half that series. And I don't agree he was the best player on the ice in any game except the shutout. Zetterberg was a beast.


So? I was arguing against TheOwl's point when he said Jimmy didn't steal any games in Phoenix, not saying he was perfect through round 1.

And for the record, Howard's game 5 was definitely more impressive than his game 4 (despite the SO). Either way, he was selected as the 1st star in both those games so TheOwl is still wrong.

Actually, the Sharks scored every game winning goal in round one against the Avs as well. In game 1 the GWG went off Blake's skate and into the net. In game 3 Boyle shot it into our own net in OT. That was fun. :rolleyes:


Boyle and Blake were just trying to pad their stats on those goals. :hehe:
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#94 Doomster

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 01:50 AM

I voted other - the San Jose Sharks. :P

I think that it is time for Babcock to make a change to the system and style that the Wings play. All the other teams have developed systems targeted to beat the Wings, and the Wings have stood still. The coaching staff needs to step up their effort and come up with a way for this team to continue to excel!


Why would you do that? What are you suggesting? That the Wings go to a trap style and keep the D-men back?

#95 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 02:07 AM

C'est la vie in Detroit until the message sinks in that you got stop skimping on goaltending. Anyone out there?


I know, right? This skimping on goaltending salary system only yielded 4 cups in 11 seasons. The Wings should mimic the goaltending choices of whoever's had more cups than that in the same period.
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#96 HappyHudler26

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 02:33 AM

Its a combination of things. Jimmy Howard and Ericsson were HUGE reasons why we lost game three, but I felt that both were fine in the first two games. The refs were widely inconsistent in the first two games and were definitely a big factor. Zetterberg didn't play to well in San Jose, while Datsyuk was at his best. Overall, there is not just one thing that has lost us this series.

#97 F.Michael

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 07:29 AM

I think that it is time for Babcock to make a change to the system and style that the Wings play. All the other teams have developed systems targeted to beat the Wings, and the Wings have stood still. The coaching staff needs to step up their effort and come up with a way for this team to continue to excel!

Agreed.

I'm reading the "Bruise Brothers", and Kocur mentions how todays team differs significantly from the late 90's team he was on - toughness, and the willingness to pummel/body check the opposition which ultimately wears down the opposition both physically, and mentally.

Edited by F.Michael, 06 May 2010 - 07:30 AM.


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#98 ami

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 10:42 AM

I call it in this order
- Crosby
- Refs
- Other, meaning the whole team

For Crosby, it is obvious.

Refs, whining or not but stat says it all. Here is penalty mins per game in regular season and playoff for all teams that reach semifinals. It is speaking for itself:


Reg PO
BOS: 11.6 14.8
PHI: 16.6 13.8
MTL: 11.4 11.7
PIT: 14.6 12.0

SJS: 14.1 7.8
DRW: 8.8 13.7
VAN: 15.5 15.0
CHI: 11.3 11.7


And the whole team, I believe they were capable to overcome this type of adversity, but failed.

Edited by ami, 06 May 2010 - 10:53 AM.


#99 Finnish Wing

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 10:58 AM

Agreed.

I'm reading the "Bruise Brothers", and Kocur mentions how todays team differs significantly from the late 90's team he was on - toughness, and the willingness to pummel/body check the opposition which ultimately wears down the opposition both physically, and mentally.

Hockey is going towards puck posession game. It's different than in the 90's. Back then it was more about just being tough and playing anti-hockey. The new rule changed a lot. You can't hook, hold etc. like you could back then. You now have to actually PLAY the game. The team who has the puck more usually wins.

San Jose Sharks have gone towards our style as well. Todd McLellan is the biggest reason for that. It's also the biggest reason why they're dominating right now and why they won the Western Conference. That game style is also maybe the biggest reason why we have had this success recently and other teams are trying to do the same.

So, the modern hockey is definitely more about skill and less about toughness. We definitely don't need to change the way we are playing.
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#100 Wing-in-avs-town

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 11:18 AM

It's a very strange case with Howard. When I watch him, it seems like he stops all the hard/amazing shots yet the what-should-be gimmie saves are the ones that get by him. Weird.


I think many said this about Ozzie early in his career. Hmmm
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