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#1 Wings_Dynasty

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 12:06 AM

No matter what happens in the playoffs, I see Detroit making some changes. I wanted to see what people thought would be actual, possible signings they might pursue and also see what you would try to do if you were Ken Holland.

Try to be realistic with what you would do. I know that it's possible to trade Datsyuk and Lidstrom for Crosby in NHL10, but it just won't happen in real life.

Possible: I can see the Wings pursuing depth guys from high cap teams that didn't make the grade this season. I know with the Lightning's new leadership that they might make some changes and usually the Wings try not to send their players to the West. I could see someone like Ohlund or Meszaros coming in to play on the 3rd pairing with Lilja (if he's here) and switching off with Kindl if he's not doing to well. I would like to see Malone come over here to play on the second line.

Wish List: Guys like Lucic or Byfuglien would look real good on the third line. I would also like to see an enforcer with talent, a Gratton or Neil type guy, someone who can hit/score odd goals as well as punch people in the face well.

"I think a tough team, a team that sticks together, is a lot better than leaving the onus on one guy to take care of business." - Brendan Shanahan

 

It still would be nice to have that one guy.


#2 wingsownnhl43

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 12:10 AM

1. Anton Volchenkov
2. Anton Volchenkov
3. Anton Volchenkov
4. Andrew Ladd, just because I dont think the Hawks will be able to match and is 24 years old.


--- I'll do a back flip if we sign Volchenkov. It looks like he's for sure going to sign elsewhere. If we lose Nick, Im sure we will be looking for a defenseman and I dont think there is much better on the market. Scott Neidermayer is available, he could be a Red Wing type signing. Id be pretty against that though.

I just think Volchenkov would be perfect to try and make up for Lidstrom's loss. Volchenkov is arguably the best defensive defenseman in the league, so I really dont think we'd lose much there. Rafalski would obviously keep his role offensivly and on the powerplay. Kronwall would be counted upon to step up his game, and we'd look for Kindl to contribute some points, maybe even Ericcson.

It really will take a group effort to replace a guy like Nick. No one defenseman in the last 10-20 years could, but if any team can do it, its Ken Holland and Co.

Edited by wingsownnhl43, 06 May 2010 - 12:28 AM.


#3 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 12:29 AM

No matter what happens in the playoffs, I see Detroit making some changes. I wanted to see what people thought would be actual, possible signings they might pursue and also see what you would try to do if you were Ken Holland.

Try to be realistic with what you would do. I know that it's possible to trade Datsyuk and Lidstrom for Crosby in NHL10, but it just won't happen in real life.

Possible: I can see the Wings pursuing depth guys from high cap teams that didn't make the grade this season. I know with the Lightning's new leadership that they might make some changes and usually the Wings try not to send their players to the West. I could see someone like Ohlund or Meszaros coming in to play on the 3rd pairing with Lilja (if he's here) and switching off with Kindl if he's not doing to well. I would like to see Malone come over here to play on the second line.

Wish List: Guys like Lucic or Byfuglien would look real good on the third line. I would also like to see an enforcer with talent, a Gratton or Neil type guy, someone who can hit/score odd goals as well as punch people in the face well.


Ohlund was a big disappointment for Tampa. They'd gladly trade him away but Holland definitely wouldn't want him at his price/performance.

Holland won't move Kindl/Ericsson yet unless he receives an offer he can't refuse. Right now he needs to get them both playing lots of games so he can evaluate them before Lidstrom/Rafalski is a thing of the past.
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#4 Crymson

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 12:32 AM

Try to be realistic with what you would do. I know that it's possible to trade Datsyuk and Lidstrom for Crosby in NHL10, but it just won't happen in real life.


Wish List: Guys like Lucic or Byfuglien would look real good on the third line.


These two statements do not go together. Lucic and Byfuglien (especially the latter) will be quite a bit too expensive for our third line, barring some significant movement of other players or barring Lidstrom's retirement. In the latter case, much of the free money will likely go towards a top-pairing defenseman.

Edited by Crymson, 06 May 2010 - 12:34 AM.


#5 soultrain

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 12:45 AM

derrick morris wojtek wolski alexander frolov anton volchenkov...... :zzz: ...dreamin.

#6 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 12:46 AM

1. Anton Volchenkov
2. Anton Volchenkov
3. Anton Volchenkov
4. Andrew Ladd, just because I dont think the Hawks will be able to match and is 24 years old.


--- I'll do a back flip if we sign Volchenkov. It looks like he's for sure going to sign elsewhere. If we lose Nick, Im sure we will be looking for a defenseman and I dont think there is much better on the market. Scott Neidermayer is available, he could be a Red Wing type signing. Id be pretty against that though.

I just think Volchenkov would be perfect to try and make up for Lidstrom's loss. Volchenkov is arguably the best defensive defenseman in the league, so I really dont think we'd lose much there. Rafalski would obviously keep his role offensivly and on the powerplay. Kronwall would be counted upon to step up his game, and we'd look for Kindl to contribute some points, maybe even Ericcson.

It really will take a group effort to replace a guy like Nick. No one defenseman in the last 10-20 years could, but if any team can do it, its Ken Holland and Co.


Playing 25+ mins a game, Volchenkov had one more point than Ericsson did this year. He won't even come close to making up for Lidstrom. Sure he would do a world of difference defensively (although he still can't touch Lids there) but he can't even put up 20pts a season. In his prime Lidstrom was putting at least 70pts a season up.
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#7 wingsownnhl43

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 12:50 AM

Playing 25+ mins a game, Volchenkov had one more point than Ericsson did this year. He won't even come close to making up for Lidstrom. Sure he would do a world of difference defensively (although he still can't touch Lids there) but he can't even put up 20pts a season. In his prime Lidstrom was putting at least 70pts a season up.

Drake Marcus, you're one of the people I respect most on this board, but come on man.

This is directly from my post that you yourself even quoted.


"I just think Volchenkov would be perfect to try and make up for Lidstrom's loss. Volchenkov is arguably the best defensive defenseman in the league, so I really dont think we'd lose much there. Rafalski would obviously keep his role offensivly and on the powerplay. Kronwall would be counted upon to step up his game, and we'd look for Kindl to contribute some points, maybe even Ericcson.

It really will take a group effort to replace a guy like Nick. No one defenseman in the last 10-20 years could"

Edited by wingsownnhl43, 06 May 2010 - 12:54 AM.


#8 zettie85

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 01:02 AM

Ohlund was a big disappointment for Tampa. They'd gladly trade him away but Holland definitely wouldn't want him at his price/performance.

Holland won't move Kindl/Ericsson yet unless he receives an offer he can't refuse. Right now he needs to get them both playing lots of games so he can evaluate them before Lidstrom/Rafalski is a thing of the past.



Rafalski is already a thing of the past. I have yet to see him show up for the Wings in over a year.
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#9 wingsownnhl43

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 01:03 AM

Rafalski is already a thing of the past. I have yet to see him show up for the Wings in over a year.


Lets be real, Rafalski is a very good player. Definitely a top four defenseman. If we want to attack his cap hit, then ok. I'm with ya.

#10 Wings_Dynasty

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 01:06 AM

These two statements do not go together. Lucic and Byfuglien (especially the latter) will be quite a bit too expensive for our third line, barring some significant movement of other players or barring Lidstrom's retirement. In the latter case, much of the free money will likely go towards a top-pairing defenseman.



I was trying to establish a difference between realistic and impossible. I can see Lucic and Byfuglien coming here because they are not franchise players. Would Boston or Chicago move them, most likely not or at least not for anything the Wings would give up.

I was talking more about players like Chara, Kane, Malkin, Kiprusoff, etc. Franchise players have been moved before, the Boston-San Jose trade comes to mind, and Phaneuf was a big name that moved, even Kovalchuck. But those kind of moves don't happen often. I was trying to avoid the Hudler, Williams, and a pick for Lecavalier posts.

"I think a tough team, a team that sticks together, is a lot better than leaving the onus on one guy to take care of business." - Brendan Shanahan

 

It still would be nice to have that one guy.


#11 zettie85

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 01:08 AM

Lets be real, Rafalski is a very good player. Definitely a top four defenseman. If we want to attack his cap hit, then ok. I'm with ya.


I'm as real as could be. Cap hit is ridiculous for sure. I have never seen a player get moved off the puck as bad as him. Maybe Leino, but we ditched him. I don't think Rafalski has heard of a gym because he obviously never uses it. He's scared to get loose pucks and gets blown by or walked around every game. His decision making ability is just gone. He seems so indecisive with the puck unless he has no one within 40 feet of him.

I don't like how he plays and I have really had it with the guy.
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#12 wingsownnhl43

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 01:12 AM

I'm as real as could be. Cap hit is ridiculous for sure. I have never seen a player get moved off the puck as bad as him. Maybe Leino, but we ditched him. I don't think Rafalski has heard of a gym because he obviously never uses it. He's scared to get loose pucks and gets blown by or walked around every game. His decision making ability is just gone. He seems so indecisive with the puck unless he has no one within 40 feet of him.

I don't like how he plays and I have really had it with the guy.

I am in agreeance with a lot of what you said. However if NIck retires, his offensive abilty becomes much more valuable to us. Rafalski might need a partner like Volchenkov, from here on out to end his career.

#13 Wings_Dynasty

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 01:15 AM

I'm as real as could be. Cap hit is ridiculous for sure. I have never seen a player get moved off the puck as bad as him. Maybe Leino, but we ditched him. I don't think Rafalski has heard of a gym because he obviously never uses it. He's scared to get loose pucks and gets blown by or walked around every game. His decision making ability is just gone. He seems so indecisive with the puck unless he has no one within 40 feet of him.

I don't like how he plays and I have really had it with the guy.


His defense on the OT goal was one of the worst displays I have ever seen in the playoffs. Ericsson would have done a better job. He at least knows that "Hey, I'm 6'5", I bet if I lay down on the ice or at least put my stick down I would be in the way of a potential pass."

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"I think a tough team, a team that sticks together, is a lot better than leaving the onus on one guy to take care of business." - Brendan Shanahan

 

It still would be nice to have that one guy.


#14 FunkedUp

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 01:15 AM

Playing 25+ mins a game, Volchenkov had one more point than Ericsson did this year. He won't even come close to making up for Lidstrom. Sure he would do a world of difference defensively (although he still can't touch Lids there) but he can't even put up 20pts a season. In his prime Lidstrom was putting at least 70pts a season up.


Yep, no arguments here. However, no one is going to replace Lidstrom, no one. Signing Volchenkov would represent a huge shift in the style of our "D." and would be our best move should Nick hang em up. Kronwall and Rafalski would then be the offensive go-to guys. Obviously, it all depends on what Lidstrom wants to do, as it regards our free-agent situation. If Nick resigns, then I don't really see our team being any different next year, except Hudler will be in and Williams will be out.

#15 DatsyukianDeke13

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 01:16 AM

Volchenkov would be great for Detroit. He reminds me a lot of Vladdy. Not saying he is or will be as good, but I think they share the same philosophy about the defensive position. I wouldn't be worried about him only scoring a few goals a year. As long as he is doing a great job keeping pucks out of our own net, they amount of points he is scoring would be irrelevant. If we did sign Volchenkov, this what our pairings could look like:

1)Volechenkov-Rafalski: Would be a very solid unit, Rafi would have to be the trigger man at the point, which is fine because he is somewhat of an offensive d-man.
2)Volcheknov-Stuart: Would be ridiculously solid in our own zone, but I would not expect much offense.
3)Volcheknov-Kronwall: Very similar to the first pairing listed. Kronwall is fairly aggressive, like Rafalski.
4)Kronwall-Stuart: See: last few seasons for opinion
5)Kronwall-Rafalski: This would probably be my favorite pairing in the offensive zone, however, I would be worried in our own.
6)Rafalski-Stuart: Could be a good pairing. Stuart may be a little more offensively gifted then Volchenkov (not by much lol) so it is almost the same.

Honestly, I think every pairing listed would be solid. If Lidstrom retires, Volchenkov could be a strong pick up.
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#16 wingsownnhl43

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 01:22 AM

Volchenkov would be great for Detroit. He reminds me a lot of Vladdy. Not saying he is or will be as good, but I think they share the same philosophy about the defensive position. I wouldn't be worried about him only scoring a few goals a year. As long as he is doing a great job keeping pucks out of our own net, they amount of points he is scoring would be irrelevant. If we did sign Volchenkov, this what our pairings could look like:

1)Volechenkov-Rafalski: Would be a very solid unit, Rafi would have to be the trigger man at the point, which is fine because he is somewhat of an offensive d-man.
2)Volcheknov-Stuart: Would be ridiculously solid in our own zone, but I would not expect much offense.
3)Volcheknov-Kronwall: Very similar to the first pairing listed. Kronwall is fairly aggressive, like Rafalski.
4)Kronwall-Stuart: See: last few seasons for opinion
5)Kronwall-Rafalski: This would probably be my favorite pairing in the offensive zone, however, I would be worried in our own.
6)Rafalski-Stuart: Could be a good pairing. Stuart may be a little more offensively gifted then Volchenkov (not by much lol) so it is almost the same.

Honestly, I think every pairing listed would be solid. If Lidstrom retires, Volchenkov could be a strong pick up.


I kind of like the option of pairing an offensive minded guy with a defensive minded guy.

Volchenkov-Rafalski
Stuart-Kronwall
Ericcson-Kindl


Ericcson is an interesting topic of discussion. I dont think you can throw in the towel on a guy after one season, especially after what we saw in the 2009 Playoff. Maybe we should re-up with Lilja to hold that third pairing down in case Ericcson or Kindl or both should falter next season.

Edited by wingsownnhl43, 06 May 2010 - 01:23 AM.


#17 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 01:30 AM

Drake Marcus, you're one of the people I respect most on this board, but come on man.

This is directly from my post that you yourself even quoted.


"I just think Volchenkov would be perfect to try and make up for Lidstrom's loss. Volchenkov is arguably the best defensive defenseman in the league, so I really dont think we'd lose much there. Rafalski would obviously keep his role offensivly and on the powerplay. Kronwall would be counted upon to step up his game, and we'd look for Kindl to contribute some points, maybe even Ericcson.

It really will take a group effort to replace a guy like Nick. No one defenseman in the last 10-20 years could"


My point was that Lidstrom's perfectly balanced offensive and defensive game can't be replaced by a purely defensive guy. Yeah you can ask other people to pick up the slack but scoring by committee isn't all it's made out to be. Remember at the start of this season when the theory was that we could lose Hossa and Hudler but try and make up for it with scoring by committee? You can count on a single superstar to peddle their wares but asking a bunch of lesser players to be the equivalent of that superstar is much tougher and less reliable.

Ideally I'd like to see someone who can do most of what Lids did. Right now the Wings have two high-end scorers on their top defensive pairing, one of which is the best shut-down d-man in the league. If you replace the top guy (Lidstrom) with a guy who's almost as good defensively but provides much less offense the other player on the pairing (Rafalski) has to pick up the offensive slack. That's all well and good if we picked up Green and Volchenkov because Green can provide the extra offense, but a 37 year old Rafalski is only going to decline from his numbers this year... so now you've got a ton less offense on your first pairing because Rafalski is providing less and Volchenkov is providing much, much, much less than the guy who he replaced did.

I know you're hoping that the 2nd and 3rd pairings pick up that slack but there's something to be said for having 2 pairings who can score (which gives a balanced 1st/2nd PP). Stuart is basically Volchenkov light so now we're asking Kronwall to provide much more offense than he does normally. I expect his numbers will go up (based on his play before the knee injury) but not that much.

Think of it this way-- can you justify replacing Datsyuk with a guy like Madden?
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#18 zettie85

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 01:31 AM

I am in agreeance with a lot of what you said. However if NIck retires, his offensive abilty becomes much more valuable to us. Rafalski might need a partner like Volchenkov, from here on out to end his career.



Volchenkov is my favorite non-Wing D-man besides Doughty. That would be amazing to have him.

I wish Rafalski preferred warm weather so we could just ship him out already though.

I would never sacrifice defence for a little bit of offence on the back end. We have been bad defensively and it is hurting us this year. I would rather see our D-man's production go down but be a lot more solid in our own end. Jut my opinion.
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#19 wingsownnhl43

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 01:34 AM

My point was that Lidstrom's perfectly balanced offensive and defensive game can't be replaced by a purely defensive guy. Yeah you can ask other people to pick up the slack but scoring by committee isn't all it's made out to be. Remember at the start of this season when the theory was that we could lose Hossa and Hudler but try and make up for it with scoring by committee? You can count on a single superstar to peddle their wares but asking a bunch of lesser players to be the equivalent of that superstar is much tougher and less reliable.

Ideally I'd like to see someone who can do most of what Lids did. Right now the Wings have two high-end scorers on their top defensive pairing, one of which is the best shut-down d-man in the league. If you replace the top guy (Lidstrom) with a guy who's almost as good defensively but provides much less offense the other player on the pairing (Rafalski) has to pick up the offensive slack. That's all well and good if we picked up Green and Volchenkov because Green can provide the extra offense, but a 37 year old Rafalski is only going to decline from his numbers this year... so now you've got a ton less offense on your first pairing because Rafalski is providing less and Volchenkov is providing much, much, much less than the guy who he replaced did.

I know you're hoping that the 2nd and 3rd pairings pick up that slack but there's something to be said for having 2 pairings who can score (which gives a balanced 1st/2nd PP). Stuart is basically Volchenkov light so now we're asking Kronwall to provide much more offense than he does normally. I expect his numbers will go up (based on his play before the knee injury) but not that much.

Think of it this way-- can you justify replacing Datsyuk with a guy like Madden?


Drake, I agree with all of what you said about Nick. However the harsh reality is that we might lose him. He's truly a once in a generation player. I cant remember a player as good offensivley and defensively as he was/is. You just cant replace Nick Lidstrom. We can only try to replace him as best as we can.

#20 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 02:09 AM

Drake, I agree with all of what you said about Nick. However the harsh reality is that we might lose him. He's truly a once in a generation player. I cant remember a player as good offensivley and defensively as he was/is. You just cant replace Nick Lidstrom. We can only try to replace him as best as we can.


Doughty or Keith would be as close as we could get. Sadly their both untouchable.
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