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Paul MacLean's Mustache

Who should we Keep? Release? Sign?

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Who am I to tell Ken Holland how to do his job, but I guess that's what I'm on here for.

I think the management has gotten a bit like the Yankees a few years ago where they fall in love with guys and keep them around too long. Now, I realize the NHL has a salary cap and MLB does not. But my point is, they need to be more cut-throat. Maltby was one of my favorite players, but he should not return. Stop clinging to the past, father time wins every time.

I'd keep Eaves over Miller. I'd get rid of Meech, and make Bert wait to see if we can find someone better. If we can't bring him back. If he finds somewhere else to play, bon voyage. Homer for one more year only. I think Lija should return.

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Just a few things people will glaze over and continue to ignore:

If Draper retires, we're still on the line for his cap hit. Do you honestly see the Red Wings putting Draper on waivers? Do you honestly see them trading him? Get real.

Holmstrom is not washed up. He had more goals last year than Henrik Zetterberg in less games played. He had two less goals than our leader, Pavel Datsyuk, in twelve less games. That equates to a career year for him. Anyone who thinks he's not still valuable doesn't know what they're talking about.

Also, what did people expect from Bertuzzi? He played all 82 games, put up the 45 points we wanted from him, and pitched in here and there. Was he the same Bertuzzi from 2003? No. He was the Bertuzzi that costs 1.5 million (less than Draper, BTW) instead. For 1.5M, 20 goals and 25 assists is pretty good, even for a guy who takes bad penalties and gives away the puck sometimes.

EDIT: Just looked it up. Bertuzzi is 3rd on the 'Wings in giveaways. Number two is Rafalski, and number one is Pavel Datsyuk.

Edited by Yzerman191

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My projected roster if salary cap remains the same.

1st line

Johan Franzen $3,954,545

Pavel Datsyuk $6,700,000

* Tomas Holmstrom $1,750,000

2nd line

Todd Bertuzzi $1,400,000

Henrik Zetterberg $6,083,333

Jiri Hudler $2,875,000

3rd line

Valtteri Filppula $3,000,000

* Darren Helm $1,000,000

Daniel Cleary $2,800,000

4th line

* Drew Miller $700,000

* Justin Abdelkader $950,000

* Patrick Eaves $800,000

Reserves

Kris Draper $1,583,333

Mattias Ritola $500,000

Jakub Kindl $883,333

Defense

Brian Rafalski $6,000,000

* Nicklas Lidstrom $4,500,000

Brad Stuart $3,750,000

Niklas Kronwall $3,000,000

* Andreas Lilja $1,300,000

Jonathan Ericsson $900,000

Chris Osgood $1,416,666

Jimmy Howard $716,666

total ~ 56.6 Million

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is there any reason for getting rid of Lilja and keeping Meech?

Lilja may retire due to his injury issues, and he may go elsewhere because he could play in many teams' top four and get approximately $2m per season. Also, the Wings will be bringing up Kindl and Meech is a better fit as 7th defenseman in general than Lilja, Ericsson, or Kindl.

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I'd expect Bertuzzi to be back next season. The Wings management was pleased with him and although he's only a shadow of his former self, he's still a contributing member of the team. There was also an article earlier this year in which he expressed his regret leaving Detroit the first time and would do what it took to be re-signed, and that money was no issue.

Bertuzzi only had a cap hit of $1.5m with the Wings, but he made $3m due to his buyout. He doesn't get any buyout money after this past season, so he may look to get a raise over the $1.5m even if he makes less than the $3m he got last season. Regardless, it's almost certain that only one of Homer and Bert will return; possibly Bert due to Homer perhaps retiring.

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Homer does not wish to retire..... he has already said as much. Lilja also wants to stay. He is the best shot blocker on the team. Detroit's PK improved the last half of the season because players like Miller, Eaves and Helm blocked a lot of shots. If Lidstrom returns the Swedish contingent will remain intact. Again the salary cap will be the issue and the players who want to come back will have to take a home team discount. Don't expect a lot of other teams to have a lot of salary cap space either. So you won't be seeing salaries rise. Chicago and San Jose will be having problems trying to resign all their players.... so the market will be flooded with available players which tends to lower the overall salaries.

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Holmstrom and Draper are not going anywhere. No way, no how. Homer I want to stay. Drapes, would rather want in a Maltby this season role. Except he's an A, don't know if they could strip him of that?

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If Lids doesn't come back and now that Vancouver lost again. What if Loungo is available, do we make a run at him?

4915.png

No no no no no.

Unless he wants to play for under 2 million.

I really don't like the idea of spending such a large amount of your cap on a position that is so temperamental.

Would much prefer we stack the blue line.

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If Lids doesn't come back and now that Vancouver lost again. What if Loungo is available, do we make a run at him?

4915.png

No I wouldn't touch Loungo, he got one big fat contract that's worth about sixty- four million. Imagine how Vancouver feels now that Chicago downed him again ; they got his number. I'd take Price in Montrel before Luongo.

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This is what I would love to see next year. Obviously, Hudler will be in for Williams, Abdelkader in for Maltby. Retain Bertuzzi, Holmstrom, Miller, Eaves and Ritola. But instead of trying to roll 3 scoring lines just to fit Holmstrom on the top line, keep him on in a reduced role/salary as a power play specialist.

Johan Franzen ($3.955m) - Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) - Jiri Hudler ($2.875m)

Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) - Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) - Todd Bertuzzi ($1.500m)

Daniel Cleary ($2.800m) - Justin Abdelkader ($1.000m) - Drew Miller ($0.600m)

Kris Draper ($1.583m) - Darren Helm ($0.750m) - Patrick Eaves ($0.650m)

Tomas Holmstrom ($1.500m)

Mattias Ritola ($0.511m)

As for defense, I want to see Lidstrom and Lilja stay AND sign Volchenkov. Trade Ericsson, bring up Kindl, and mixup the pairings so that each has an offense threat and a stay at home type. Our entire top 6 would be so deep and balanced that it would allow the minutes to be spread more evenly, reducing fatigue over the course of the year. Another benefit would be that it would allow Volchenkov a full year to adjust to the Detroit system before Lidstrom retires, at which time Kindl could move into the top six and perhaps Smith would be ready to make the jump up as the 7th defenseman.

Nicklas Lidstrom ($3.750m) - Anton Volchenkov ($3.750m)

Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m) - Brad Stuart ($3.750m)

Andreas Lilja ($1.000m) - Brian Rafalski ($6.000m)

Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)

Jimmy Howard ($0.717m) - Chris Osgood ($1.417m)

ROSTER: 23; PAYROLL: $57.774m; CAP ROOM: $0.026m

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Guest mindfly

Even though Volchenkov isn't worth more than 3.75 because he's rather one-dimensional he will get 4-5.5M on the open market

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Even though Volchenkov isn't worth more than 3.75 because he's rather one-dimensional he will get 4-5.5M on the open market

2 years ago Lidstrom was worth about 8.5-9m on the open market, but he signed here for less. Just sayin'

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Guest Four

2 years ago Lidstrom was worth about 8.5-9m on the open market, but he signed here for less. Just sayin'

Lidstrom has also always been a Red Wing.

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Guest mindfly

2 years ago Lidstrom was worth about 8.5-9m on the open market, but he signed here for less. Just sayin'

Every indication suggests that Volchenkov is after the big money and therefore isn't interested in re-signing with the sens

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Every indication suggests that Volchenkov is after the big money and therefore isn't interested in re-signing with the sens

I tend to agree - but who knows? Sometimes players will surprise you.

That 'greedy' euro Selanne has taken a lot less money for almost a decade to be on winning teams.

Conjecture at this point hinges almost solely on Lidstrom right now -- which makes it so freakin' hard to project next season's lineup. But here's the good news -- Lidstrom fired his agent and negotiated his most recent contract, which he is most likely to do again. Which means he is dealing with Ken Holland himself.

This means a ton for the team because Holland can simply say, "We'll pay whatever you want, but if you accept $___ we can afford X and Y players." If Lidstrom comes back, it's pretty safe to say he wants to win. I'm going to be thrilled if he takes anything less than $6m, but it may not be crazy to think he might take closer to $4m in order to give Holland room to maneuver.

Finally - just another reminder that Osgood and Draper are on the books no matter what next year (whether they retire or play in the minors) unless Holland trades them, which I highly doubt will happen. Let's just be happy if he lets Maltby go.

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Your a snarky fellow aren't you with your snide comments. Maybe you resort to that to make up for your lack of hockey knowledge. So far that's all I've seen from you

.Try to bring the level of debate to higher standard your posturing is not helping.

Im sorry but considering it was a talk about trading Zettererg for plekanec and price I didnt feel a debate was needed. You are however right and I often just pop on to see whats happening and get annoyed sometimes at the level of thought that goes into some of these threads, and post a couple meanies myself and leave. So if you are one of the people I have hurt with my inquisitive rage I apologize and know that I am making steps to improve my ways and if I see a post I feel is "******* retarted" as I used to say, I will choose to ignore it instead. Red Storm Thank you :thumbup:

(PS~BITE MY WEINER...jk)

...Moving on I hope Bert comes back for 1 more year and he stays on line 2 but I would LOVE to see Flip and Franzen with him, Flip is going to, finally have his "breakout" year. Reunite Hank and Pav but switch up homer for huds. I think Hudler could snip as many as Sammy if he played with those two! Im also very excited to see Kindl up here also, Griffins games are hardly ever on here in port hope but when they are I really dig this kid! After that I guess we wait and see about Lids, because he dictates the rest :blink:

Edited by 13dangledangle

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No I wouldn't touch Loungo, he got one big fat contract that's worth about sixty- four million. Imagine how Vancouver feels now that Chicago downed him again ; they got his number. I'd take Price in Montrel before Luongo.

I just thought with our Dfense and our potent offense we would be stacked with a better tender. Plus if Lids doesnt't come back the money would be there.

Edited by redwings1926

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Im sorry but considering it was a talk about trading Zettererg for plekanec and price I didnt feel a debate was needed. You are however right and I often just pop on to see whats happening and get annoyed sometimes at the level of thought that goes into some of these threads, and post a couple meanies myself and leave. So if you are one of the people I have hurt with my inquisitive rage I apologize and know that I am making steps to improve my ways and if I see a post I feel is "******* retarted" as I used to say, I will choose to ignore it instead. Red Storm Thank you thumbup.gif

(PS~BITE MY WEINER...jk)

...Moving on I hope Bert comes back for 1 more year and he stays on line 2 but I would LOVE to see Flip and Franzen with him, Flip is going to, finally have his "breakout" year. Reunite Hank and Pav but switch up homer for huds. I think Hudler could snip as many as Sammy if he played with those two! Im also very excited to see Kindl up here also, Griffins games are hardly ever on here in port hope but when they are I really dig this kid! After that I guess we wait and see about Lids, because he dictates the rest blink.gif

No problem no worries we all have perspectives

on what we think would be best for the team. And sometimes you look at what some suggest and you say how could they see it that way. I mean look over the years on how partisans were divided over Osgood, and I don't think the twain shall ever meet.For me any how I find there's too much complacency we just never see in Detroit somwhere on the horizon a possible block buster trade. Were like just parked in this incremental mode perhaps a tweek here and a tweek there. I guess I get bored with it I'd like to see some change in make-up . I wouldn't mind some more Canadian content maybe Brandon Prust with Bert on the same line. Anyhow I appreciate your candour.

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I'll try to play the role of Ken Holland. Here's the way I'm really hoping to see what Holland does this offseason.

First, the major moves I'm hoping to see.

The Wings need to upgrade their defense core. By that, I'm hoping they go out and sign Dan Hamhuis from Nashville. Hamhuis is a top 4 defenseman. He's 6'1", 203 pounds, and he's 27, and will turn 28 December 13th. His stats over the past five seasons are 25 goals and 110 assists for 135 points. He's also a plus 15 during that time and had 318 PIMs. Over the past five regular seasons, Hamhuis has played in all but seven(403/410) games for the Predators. In 22 playoff games, Hamhuis has one goal and seven assists for eight points. However, he did post a Minus 10 in those games. Just entering his prime, he can play quality minutes that a guy like Andreas Lilja cannot. This also would take pressure off Lidstrom and Rafalski, therefore keeping them healthier. Hamhuis will want a deal in the four year, $13 Million range. That comes out to a $3.25 Million cap hit.

After the defense core is upgraded, I believe the Wings need a 3rd Line forward with speed to compliment Helm. By that, I'm hoping they go out and sign Matthew Lombardi. At 6'0", 198 pounds, and 28 years old, Lombardi is another guy just entering his prime. His stats over the past five seasons are 73 goals and 134 assists for 207 points. He's also a plus 24 and had 243 PIMs. He has played in 365/410 games over the past five regular seasons. In 27 playoff games, Lombardi has two goals and eight assists for 10 points. However, he did post a Minus 5 in those games. But just entering his prime, another speedster to compliment Helm will end up putting immense pressure on opponents' defense, tiring them, and will indirectly score another 20-25 goals during the course of the season. Lombardi could be a $3.0 Million guy. He made $2.35 Million last season, but I think he'd take a deal around five years, $12 Million because he would have a chance to win the cup every year. That would come out to a $2.4 Million cap hit.

I cannot imagine Lidstrom retiring for the simple reason that he has so much left in the tank. So if I'm Holland, I know(or at least am hoping) Lidstrom will play one or two more seasons. Lidstrom is still worth the money he was paid last season ($7.45M). But Lidstrom is one of the classiest guys one will ever meet and he'll take a bit of a pay cut. So what you do is sign Listrom to a five year, $14 Million deal. Listrom would still make $6 Million per season, but he would be only a $2.8 Million cap hit, allowing the Wings to sign guys such as Hamhuis and Lombardi.

I would let Williams and Bertuzzi go. You caught lightning in a bottle with Bertuzzi this season, and Williams wasn't worth a penny of his $1.5 Million deal. Maltby will most likely retire and take a job within the organization, similar to Larry Murphy. And you also have the return of Jiri Hudler.

With that being said, here's how I have next season's roster figured.

2010 Salary Contract Cap Hit

2 Dan Hamhuis $3,500,000 4 yr, $13M $3,250,000

5 Nicklas Lidstrom $6,000,000 5 yr, $14M $2,800,000

8 Justin Abdelkader $750,000 3 yr, $2.7M $900,000

11 Dan Cleary $3,000,000 3 yr, $9M $2,800,000

13 Pavel Datsyuk $6,700,000 4 yr, $26.8M $6,700,000

15 Matthew Lombardi $2,000,000 5 yr, $11.5M $2,300,000

*17 Patrick Eaves $500,000 2 yr, $1M $500,000

*20 Drew Miller $500,000 2 yr, $1M $500,000

23 Brad Stuart $3,750,000 2 yr, $7.5M $3,750,000

26 Jiri Hudler $2,875,000 2 yr, $5.75M $2,875,000

28 Brian Rafalski $6,000,000 2 yr, $12M $6,000,000

30 Chris Osgood $1,100,000 1 yr, $1.1M $1,416,666

33 Kris Draper $1,250,000 1 yr, $1.25M $1,583,333

35 Jimmy Howard $800,000 1 yr, $800K $716,666

40 Henrik Zetterberg $7,750,000 11 yr, $65.6M $6,083,333

42 Mattias Ritola $500,000 2 yr, $1.1M $550,000

43 Darren Helm $700,000 5 yr, $8M $1,600,000

51 Valtteri Filppula $3,500,000 3 yr, $10.5M $3,000,000

52 Jonathan Ericsson $1,250,000 1 yr, $1.25M $900,000

55 Niklas Kronwall $3,500,000 2 yr, $7.25M $3,000,000

93 Johan Franzen $5,000,000 10 yr, $38M $3,954,545

96 Tomas Holmstrom $1,500,000 1 yr, $1.5M $1,500,000

Average Age: 29.95 $62,425,000

2010 Salary Cap: $56,900,000

20 Players Signed For: $55,929,543

Remaining Cap Space: $970,457

Bold: Players actually signed.

Italics: Players not signed.

* - two way contract, begin in Grand Rapids, does not count against cap unless on Wings Roster.

Projected Red Wings Lines with new signings:

Line 1: Datsyuk, Franzen, Filppula

Line 2: Zetterberg, Holmstrom, Cleary

Line 3: Helm, Hudler, Lombardi

Line 4: Draper, Abdelkader, Ritola

DP 1: Lidstrom & Rafalski

DP 2: Kronwall & Hamhuis

DP 3: Stuart & Ericsson

G: Chris Osgood

G: Jimmy Howard

I would also like to see a possible trade of Cleary to unload his salary. Trade him to an Eastern Conference team for a draft pick. Then the Wings would be able to sign another free agent on July 1, Tomas Plekanec. He'll cost the same as Cleary, but he'll score more and has more years. It's not that I don't like Cleary, but Plekanec is better.

Plekanec is 5'11", 197 pounds, and 27 years old. He is another guy entering his prime while Cleary is five years older. His stats over the past five seasons are 103 goals and 151 assists for 254 points. He was also a plus 25 and had 214 PIMs. He has played in 391/410 games over the past five regular seasons. In 34 playoff games, Plekanec has eight goals and 15 assists for 23 points. However, he did post a minus five in those games. But another guy entering his prime would give the Wings three guys in their primes, one a 1st or 2nd Liner, another a 3rd Liner, and the third a defenseman who will eat up minutes otherwise taken up by Lidstrom, will be absolutely huge for the Wings. I guess we'll wait and see what they do.

But here's a dream team that can also be reality.

Line 1: Datsyuk, Franzen, Filppula

Line 2: Zetterberg, Holmstrom, Plekanec

Line 3: Helm, Hudler, Lombardi

Line 4: Draper, Abdelkader, Ritola

DP 1: Lidstrom & Rafalski

DP 2: Kronwall & Hamhuis

DP 3: Stuart & Ericsson

G: Chris Osgood

G: Jimmy Howard

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I wish Kenny would do something like this. Signing Lombardi and Plekanec would be sweet and make our team much better, though I think the Hamhuis signing is redundant if we don't lose any top 4 d-men. At the very least Stuart, our third best defenseman, won't be playing on the third pairing. Lidstrom also won't be singing that long or most likely that low, but not signing Hamhuis would offset that and then some. Pretty good otherwise.

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Now that the Wings will have more time to rest up and get their proper workout habits going I'm quite curious as to what the PK forward rotation will look like.

I think Babs will be able to go back to using four sets of forwards instead of three.

This year he had an order of Helm-Eaves, Miller-Cleary, Helm-Eaves, Zetterberg-Filppula. Maybe he'll be able to get Franzen in there again as well as Datsyuk. Gotta get everybody committed to playing 200 feet.

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