Jump to content


Photo
* * * * - 3 votes

Let's Talk About the Refereeing


  • Please log in to reply
221 replies to this topic

#101 Hockeytown0001

Hockeytown0001

    Legend

  • HoF Booster
  • 22,644 posts
  • Location:A2, Michigan

Posted 28 March 2011 - 09:55 PM

That call on Zetterberg at the end was the topper.

"All done? Five bucks." - Pavel Datsyuk after an interview
"Very few cities in the NHL have the history or the following of the Detroit Red Wings." - Steve Yzerman

 

 


#102 SouthernWingsFan

SouthernWingsFan

    Legend

  • HoF Booster
  • 24,609 posts
  • Location:Mandeville, Louisiana (Greater New Orleans area)

Posted 28 March 2011 - 10:14 PM

NHL officials are a bunch of incompetent a**holes.

That's all.

#103 Mabuhay Red Wings

Mabuhay Red Wings

    PACquiao!

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 840 posts

Posted 28 March 2011 - 10:18 PM

Politics. It's the way of the world I guess.

#104 soonboomer

soonboomer

    3rd Line Checker

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 489 posts

Posted 28 March 2011 - 10:22 PM

That call on Zetterberg at the end was the topper.


Unfortunately, it was the right call.

#105 Crymson

Crymson

    Ninjelephant

  • Gold Booster
  • 11,032 posts
  • Location:Denver, CO, USA

Posted 28 March 2011 - 10:40 PM

Unfortunately, it was the right call.


I find this difficult to agree with, given that the video showed absolutely no evidence of a hook.

#106 haroldsnepsts

haroldsnepsts

    "Classy"

  • HoF Booster Mod
  • 16,948 posts

Posted 28 March 2011 - 11:03 PM

Unfortunately, it was the right call.



as a single, isolated incident, sure it could be called hooking. Given what had been let go in that game, particularly interfering with Z minutes earlier which was much more egregious, it shouldn't have been called. There was no consistency in the reffing tonight.

#107 Hockeytown0001

Hockeytown0001

    Legend

  • HoF Booster
  • 22,644 posts
  • Location:A2, Michigan

Posted 28 March 2011 - 11:04 PM

Unfortunately, it was the right call.


That's about as weak a "hook" I've ever seen. You'd be lucky to have a powerplay on that call in the 1st period in a competent NHL. You never call that in the final minute of a tied game.

"All done? Five bucks." - Pavel Datsyuk after an interview
"Very few cities in the NHL have the history or the following of the Detroit Red Wings." - Steve Yzerman

 

 


#108 bdavis

bdavis

    #17

  • Bronze Booster
  • 321 posts
  • Location:Detroit, MI

Posted 29 March 2011 - 12:20 AM

That's about as weak a "hook" I've ever seen. You'd be lucky to have a powerplay on that call in the 1st period in a competent NHL. You never call that in the final minute of a tied game.


Yeah, especially after that blatant no-call where Zetts was clearly interfered with. In my opinion, if they are going to call that hooking penalty, they should've also called the interference too. But oh well...

Edited by bd2988, 29 March 2011 - 12:21 AM.


#109 akustyk

akustyk

    how painful is painful?

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,170 posts
  • Location:Voorburg, Dutchland

Posted 29 March 2011 - 02:36 AM

I only saw a replay of the game at TSN, but the no-call on Homer's solo and "hook" on Zetterberg looked bad.
this was a penalty shot, and the "hook" was so bloody weak, you'd think it was Bettman's beloved Penguins we were playing against...

no idea what else happened in the game, just those two decisions look particulary bad

#110 mahimahi23

mahimahi23

    Rookie

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 192 posts

Posted 29 March 2011 - 04:38 AM

Im not saying it wasnt a weak call, but it was the right call, even Zetterberg said he agreed with the call.



#111 Shoreline

Shoreline

    Panzerfaust

  • HoF Booster
  • 12,817 posts
  • Location:Brampton, ON

Posted 29 March 2011 - 04:45 AM

It's been extremely unnerving to say the least how f***ed up the reffing has been, not just in Red Wing games, but league-wide.

OTOH, since I watch more Red Wing games than the rest of the league, I get to see lovely standards of goalie interference go entirely and unfairly against the Wings over and over again.

The attitude displayed at refusing to call interference when done to Red Wing goalies, and the ever-ready ref to put his hand up if Holmstrom breathe on a goalie, remind me eerily of how bad calls and targeted calls on specific players while purposely ignoring others marred the NBA during their ref scandal period. Given how quickly players, coaches, etc., get punished for bitching about reffing, this certainly aids in the notion of such a possible scenario festering in this league.

#112 Heroes of Hockeytown

Heroes of Hockeytown

    Big Goal Bob

  • Bronze Booster
  • 13,729 posts

Posted 29 March 2011 - 07:27 AM

Im not saying it wasnt a weak call, but it was the right call, even Zetterberg said he agreed with the call.

In comparison to the clear as day interference on Zetterberg earlier in the period that prevented a 2-on-1 break that wasn't called, there's reason for Wings fans to be bitter. If I were making a video to show an example of what constitutes an interference call in the the NHL, that's the play I'd use.
"We've been in the same spot all year long. We won 50 games for the fourth year in a row. People think we're just hum-drum and boring.
No, you know what we are, we're good. You can't do what we do every single day and not be good." - Mike Babcock

#113 Mabuhay Red Wings

Mabuhay Red Wings

    PACquiao!

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 840 posts

Posted 29 March 2011 - 07:39 AM

In comparison to the clear as day interference on Zetterberg earlier in the period that prevented a 2-on-1 break that wasn't called, there's reason for Wings fans to be bitter. If I were making a video to show an example of what constitutes an interference call in the the NHL, that's the play I'd use.


Zetterberg was just being politically correct. I'm sure Emma had to listen to him ***** about it when he got home.

#114 Nightfall

Nightfall

    My goal is to deny yours!

  • Gold Booster
  • 3,745 posts
  • Location:Grand Rapids

Posted 29 March 2011 - 08:21 AM

I have been a USA hockey referee for a few years now. Back when I first got my start, I can tell you that it was not as easy as I thought. I really enjoy it which is why I continue to do it. Perception is everything, and you won't catch everything that happens in the course of a game. Some things you do call will be totally wrong. Even the best referees in the world don't get every call right.

All these things being said, I have also found in my travels that the team that wins doesn't complain about the reffing as much as the team that loses. Sure, they both complain, but the one that gets the short end of the stick always complains. This is never going to change.

There are many calls the Wings have gotten where nothing has happened. All wings fans praise and love these calls. Others go against the Wings for nothing, and the fans ***** about the reffing and how its a conspiracy. So, let me get this straight. If a call goes for the Wings where the Wings didn't get tripped or just fall on accident, its ok. If a call goes against the Wings where someone fell and the Wings weren't involved, its reffing failure?

I don't subscribe to reffing conspiracy theories. There are going to be missed calls in the progression of the game. There are going to be calls that shouldn't be called in the progression of the game. Human beings are going to perceive things differently. Now that you have television in the mix where you can slow down and really analyze the play, every call can be questioned.

I believe the NHL has the best professional hockey refs. At the same time though, they perform like any other ref would perform. When the game is played at that high of a level, mistakes are going to happen. If the NHL was hell bent on fixing those mistakes, they would change the reffing system. For instance, one of the things they tried at the combine this year was one ref on the ice while the other ref is standing on a platform overlooking the glass. Both refs can call penalties. What they found was that the ref up high caught more legit penalties than the ref on the ice. I am all for a system like this to be honest with you, but the hockey purists would not be happy.

In closing, there are a couple things I want to point out....

1. I firmly believe before you get upset with the refs, you should put the stripes on and ref. It really opens your eyes to the world of refereeing and you will see, even at the rec league level, that it isn't as easy as you thought it would be. Even you will make mistakes, even after years of reffing.

2. I also firmly believe that the best team always wins in the end. The refs didn't screw the Wings out of the game last night. The Wings defense went to sleep on the two goals that Chicago scored in the game. The Wings were lucky to get to OT last night thanks to the bank shot off of the defenseman's skate.

3. As for the playoffs, I also believe that the best team wins a 7 game series. The refs may make a bad call which results in one team winning a game, but things always seem to work out. A team down 2-0 in a series will turn it on to make it a series if they want it bad enough. The refs don't decide 7 game series, the players do.

That is all....
Christopher Brian Dudek
My Domain

#115 Hockeytown_Ryan

Hockeytown_Ryan

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,806 posts
  • Location:Saint Clair Shores, MI

Posted 29 March 2011 - 08:53 AM

That's about as weak a "hook" I've ever seen. You'd be lucky to have a powerplay on that call in the 1st period in a competent NHL. You never call that in the final minute of a tied game.


time of the game does not mean you do or do not call it. a hook is a hook at the 19:00 mark like it is at the 1:00 mark....

I have been a USA hockey referee for a few years now. Back when I first got my start, I can tell you that it was not as easy as I thought. I really enjoy it which is why I continue to do it. Perception is everything, and you won't catch everything that happens in the course of a game. Some things you do call will be totally wrong. Even the best referees in the world don't get every call right.

All these things being said, I have also found in my travels that the team that wins doesn't complain about the reffing as much as the team that loses. Sure, they both complain, but the one that gets the short end of the stick always complains. This is never going to change.

There are many calls the Wings have gotten where nothing has happened. All wings fans praise and love these calls. Others go against the Wings for nothing, and the fans ***** about the reffing and how its a conspiracy. So, let me get this straight. If a call goes for the Wings where the Wings didn't get tripped or just fall on accident, its ok. If a call goes against the Wings where someone fell and the Wings weren't involved, its reffing failure?

I don't subscribe to reffing conspiracy theories. There are going to be missed calls in the progression of the game. There are going to be calls that shouldn't be called in the progression of the game. Human beings are going to perceive things differently. Now that you have television in the mix where you can slow down and really analyze the play, every call can be questioned.

I believe the NHL has the best professional hockey refs. At the same time though, they perform like any other ref would perform. When the game is played at that high of a level, mistakes are going to happen. If the NHL was hell bent on fixing those mistakes, they would change the reffing system. For instance, one of the things they tried at the combine this year was one ref on the ice while the other ref is standing on a platform overlooking the glass. Both refs can call penalties. What they found was that the ref up high caught more legit penalties than the ref on the ice. I am all for a system like this to be honest with you, but the hockey purists would not be happy.

In closing, there are a couple things I want to point out....

1. I firmly believe before you get upset with the refs, you should put the stripes on and ref. It really opens your eyes to the world of refereeing and you will see, even at the rec league level, that it isn't as easy as you thought it would be. Even you will make mistakes, even after years of reffing.

2. I also firmly believe that the best team always wins in the end. The refs didn't screw the Wings out of the game last night. The Wings defense went to sleep on the two goals that Chicago scored in the game. The Wings were lucky to get to OT last night thanks to the bank shot off of the defenseman's skate.

3. As for the playoffs, I also believe that the best team wins a 7 game series. The refs may make a bad call which results in one team winning a game, but things always seem to work out. A team down 2-0 in a series will turn it on to make it a series if they want it bad enough. The refs don't decide 7 game series, the players do.

That is all....


Awesome post from a ref...thanks. :thumbup:

Edited by Hockeytown_Ryan, 29 March 2011 - 08:55 AM.


#116 b.shanafan14

b.shanafan14

    One good Swede deserves another!

  • Silver Booster
  • 2,870 posts
  • Location:Upper Peninsula, Michigan

Posted 29 March 2011 - 09:00 AM

I have watched that Zetterberg play over and over, zero hook. None. Playing him close, preventing him from getting a clean run at the goaltender with under 15 seconds left? Yes. But at no point was there what the league describes as a hook. At no point was there any obstruction beyond the rules of the game. In fact, the more I see it the more of a "defensive gem" it was (not to be confused with the "defensive gem" that Versus initially called the trip on the Holmstrom breakaway).

The minutes prior with the Wings in the offensive zone pressuring there are several free-hand-grabs let go, which is fine if that's the way you're going to call it, there was even a "funny" sequence in which my girlfriend asked "isn't that a penalty" and I was foolish enough to reply "in the first period, for sure, but they've probably swallowed the whistle in the last minutes and let them play"...... so much for that.

Inconsistency is disgusting. I don't know what constitutes a good, legal play in this league anymore, it changes not game to game or even period to period, but minute to minute. And as much as I HATE conspiracy talk or favoritism as it tends to have the look of excuse making, there is something seriously off since the lockout as far as "flavor of the week" teams (Hawks, Penguins) getting the benefit of suspect calls. I don't know if anyone could honestly say that the NHL has no agenda to ensure that another Cup champion doesn't miss the playoffs the year after.

time of the game does not mean you do or do not call it. a hook is a hook at the 19:00 mark like it is at the 1:00 mark....


Unfortunately, that's exactly the problem. A hook isn't a hook at the 19:00 mark like it is at the 1:00. The definition unfortunately seems to change between the 19:00 mark and the the 19:15 mark. And last night it seemed to change between sweater color / playoff standing. Either way you slice it, that "hook" wasn't a hook at all. Granted, the refs see everything at high-speed, bad angles, blah blah... but there is nothing that said that play should have been called when the countless others were deemed legal.

#117 Nightfall

Nightfall

    My goal is to deny yours!

  • Gold Booster
  • 3,745 posts
  • Location:Grand Rapids

Posted 29 March 2011 - 09:09 AM

I have watched that Zetterberg play over and over, zero hook. None.

You have the benefit of slow motion and instant replay. If you really want to put yourself in a position of being a ref, follow these situations.

You are on the ice and see something happen. You have an instant to make a call or not make one. You have no benefit from instant replay. What do you do? Its all about perception. Odds are, if anyone is put in that situation, there are going to be good calls and bad calls. The Wings have benefitted and gotten screwed a couple times this season from both sides.

As a ref, there are sometimes I wish I had the ability to slow time down and rewind plays in my head. Then I would be the best ref in the game. :D
Christopher Brian Dudek
My Domain

#118 Howard He Do It?!

Howard He Do It?!

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,417 posts
  • Location:Hockeytown

Posted 29 March 2011 - 09:09 AM

If your stick is parallel to the ice and you put it into a guy's midsection you are going to the box 9 times out of 10. I saw that play live and knew right away it was going to be called before I even saw the ref. It sucks but we have benefitted from that very same "hooking" call. Also take into account the positioning of the ref who made the call. He was in front of the play and only saw Z's stick in Kane's midsection with the stick parallel to the ice. Had he been behind the play the call might be different.

Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image


Round 1: Red Wings (4) vs. Coyotes (0)
Round 2: Red Wings (0) vs. Sharks (0)


#119 hooon

hooon

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,231 posts
  • Location:Denver

Posted 29 March 2011 - 09:22 AM

I have been a USA hockey referee for a few years now. Back when I first got my start, I can tell you that it was not as easy as I thought. I really enjoy it which is why I continue to do it. Perception is everything, and you won't catch everything that happens in the course of a game. Some things you do call will be totally wrong. Even the best referees in the world don't get every call right.

All these things being said, I have also found in my travels that the team that wins doesn't complain about the reffing as much as the team that loses. Sure, they both complain, but the one that gets the short end of the stick always complains. This is never going to change.

There are many calls the Wings have gotten where nothing has happened. All wings fans praise and love these calls. Others go against the Wings for nothing, and the fans ***** about the reffing and how its a conspiracy. So, let me get this straight. If a call goes for the Wings where the Wings didn't get tripped or just fall on accident, its ok. If a call goes against the Wings where someone fell and the Wings weren't involved, its reffing failure?

I don't subscribe to reffing conspiracy theories. There are going to be missed calls in the progression of the game. There are going to be calls that shouldn't be called in the progression of the game. Human beings are going to perceive things differently. Now that you have television in the mix where you can slow down and really analyze the play, every call can be questioned.

I believe the NHL has the best professional hockey refs. At the same time though, they perform like any other ref would perform. When the game is played at that high of a level, mistakes are going to happen. If the NHL was hell bent on fixing those mistakes, they would change the reffing system. For instance, one of the things they tried at the combine this year was one ref on the ice while the other ref is standing on a platform overlooking the glass. Both refs can call penalties. What they found was that the ref up high caught more legit penalties than the ref on the ice. I am all for a system like this to be honest with you, but the hockey purists would not be happy.

In closing, there are a couple things I want to point out....

1. I firmly believe before you get upset with the refs, you should put the stripes on and ref. It really opens your eyes to the world of refereeing and you will see, even at the rec league level, that it isn't as easy as you thought it would be. Even you will make mistakes, even after years of reffing.

2. I also firmly believe that the best team always wins in the end. The refs didn't screw the Wings out of the game last night. The Wings defense went to sleep on the two goals that Chicago scored in the game. The Wings were lucky to get to OT last night thanks to the bank shot off of the defenseman's skate.

3. As for the playoffs, I also believe that the best team wins a 7 game series. The refs may make a bad call which results in one team winning a game, but things always seem to work out. A team down 2-0 in a series will turn it on to make it a series if they want it bad enough. The refs don't decide 7 game series, the players do.

That is all....


Look, I'm sure being a ref is hard and all, but being that this is the NATIONAL HOCKEY LEAGUE, I don't see why it is unreasonable to demand more perfection at the highest level of hockey in the world. If this is as good as the reffing can possibly get, then that would be very pathetic indeed.

No one is denying that it is a difficult job and that mistakes can happen, but what drives us crazy is how absolutely fixable so many facets of the officiating are.

So many simple tweaks and changes could vastly improve the reffing and subsequent complaining about the reffing. The replay system, overall consistency, subjectivity of the rules, interpretation of the rules, players understanding of the rules, intent calls, headshots, etc. The reffing is different in every single game, for every single team, for every single player, and it simply makes no sense.

That the league has an anti-honesty policy in regards to coaches and players voicing their opinions about the officiating speaks volumes to me.
Posted Image

#120 b.shanafan14

b.shanafan14

    One good Swede deserves another!

  • Silver Booster
  • 2,870 posts
  • Location:Upper Peninsula, Michigan

Posted 29 March 2011 - 09:32 AM

Look, I'm sure being a ref is hard and all, but being that this is the NATIONAL HOCKEY LEAGUE, I don't see why it is unreasonable to demand more perfection consistency + common sense at the highest level of hockey in the world. If this is as good as the reffing can possibly get, then that would be very pathetic indeed.

[...]

That the league has an anti-honesty policy in regards to coaches and players voicing their opinions about the officiating speaks volumes to me.


There is something a bit fascist about not being able to speak the truth if someone up the totem pole doesn't like it. They treat "that was an awful call" like its "sloppy seconds". Doesn't the league do more harm than good to their image in these instances?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKJaZ5avKtQ





Similar Topics Collapse

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users