Franzen Upset Refs Missed Call, Stuart has sprained MCL

[Hockeymom1960 5,107]

I'll comment on both. The reason the faceoff was in the Detroit zone is because the net was knocked off by a Detroit player. That is also the reason they didn't blow the play dead because when the puck was in the San Jose zone. It would have given the Wings an advantage (face off in the attacking zone) after they were the ones to knock net off.

As for the Murray hit? It was as much Franzen running in to Murray as Murray hitting Franzen and he lowered his head making a shoulder to shoulder hit become a shoulder to head hit. Also, it was not "late" as Franzen had just gotten rid of the puck. It wasn't like Murray took a run at him from the blindside, it was just two guys arriving at point A at the same time. No penalty, CERTAINLY no postgame disciplinary action needed.

For a team of champs, you guys sure whine a lot. Even the players now?

I'm sure you'll be whining a lot the next round when you get your asses handed to you by the Hawks

Edited May 9, 2010 by Hockeymom1960

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Go troll a Blackhawks forum.

Yeah, no kidding.

This guy could make any incident sound like a hapless accident. Should have been an attorney.

[redwingfan19 293]

stewie is a ******* warrior, franzen, stfu and do something about it. If there is one thing that bugs me about franzen its his lack or physicality and toughness..

[jeff48109 474]

the sharks are going to get a rude shock when they play the Blackhawks. the 4-1 series flattered the sharks, they were not that impressive. I am pretty sure the league would rather see the bright young starts (Kane, Toews) from a traditional hockey market in the SCF. the calls will go the way of the Blackhawks (I can imagine Nabby diving everytime Buttf***len crashes the crease and the refs don't call anything).

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

I'll comment on both. The reason the faceoff was in the Detroit zone is because the net was knocked off by a Detroit player. That is also the reason they didn't blow the play dead because when the puck was in the San Jose zone. It would have given the Wings an advantage (face off in the attacking zone) after they were the ones to knock net off.

As for the Murray hit? It was as much Franzen running in to Murray as Murray hitting Franzen and he lowered his head making a shoulder to shoulder hit become a shoulder to head hit. Also, it was not "late" as Franzen had just gotten rid of the puck. It wasn't like Murray took a run at him from the blindside, it was just two guys arriving at point A at the same time. No penalty, CERTAINLY no postgame disciplinary action needed.

For a team of champs, you guys sure whine a lot. Even the players now?

I suppose the Versus crew, which is usually not too fond of Detroit, was whining when even they commented on the abysmal officiating?

[sixer 37]

Missed Call on Franzen essentially is huge, PP goal for us would have completely changed the game and even if no goal, taken away 5 on 5 time for SJ.

These types of missed calls all series were major difference.

[Shady Ultima 40]

As for the Murray hit? It was as much Franzen running in to Murray as Murray hitting Franzen and he lowered his head making a shoulder to shoulder hit become a shoulder to head hit. Also, it was not "late" as Franzen had just gotten rid of the puck. It wasn't like Murray took a run at him from the blindside, it was just two guys arriving at point A at the same time. No penalty, CERTAINLY no postgame disciplinary action needed.

Rewatch the play. Franzen passed, watched the puck and Murray JUMPED and hit him.

Players can leave their feet now to make an interfering HEAD shot?

I suppose the Versus crew, which is usually not too fond of Detroit, was whining when even they commented on the abysmal officiating?

This is also a good point. The VS guys are usually not Wings fans, and while their bias against Detroit is never HUGE, they even mentioned through the series that the reffing was horrid.

[Guest zackmorris]

Yeah, officiating sucked. Not the reason we lost however.

Even at the start of the 3rd, Sharks were pressing more.

Bulls***. Yes, it was. You can make this argument in most other series with poor officiating, but not this one. Poor officiating lead directly to their GWGs.

It's this type of attitude that perpetuates piss poor officiating. I get it's the alpha-male "never be whiner!" stance to take, but it's just not real. We're not professionals, we're fans. We're allowed to call it how it is. It's irresponsible of us to act any other way.

[Guest Lidstromboli]

"to call ti how it is" = to call it how you perceive it to be

[Guest zackmorris]

"to call ti how it is" = to call it how you perceive it to be

So we're ignoring the obvious now? I always get a laugh when people accuse others of using the refs thing as an excuse, but they'll shovel excuses themselves so they don't have to admit maybe the refs did severely screw one team or another. Everyone is so scared to be ridiculed or labeled by others. Just frozen with fear. It's pretty sad. Sack up.

Let me add that not only did Versus make blatant mention of how poorly this series was officiated, TSN in Canada had an entire panel segment about it. That's the equivalent of saying "this s*** is not fair, period".

[Ratbastrd 90]

So based on the points made here, does anyone think Stuart should have been called for the shot to Murray's head shortly after the Franzen no-call. Murray's lip was shredded, guy was bleeding all over himself? For that matter, should Stuart have received something more then a minor for the elbow to Pavelski's head? According to the new rules that is a game misconduct penalty.

How about knocking Thornton's stick out of his hands from behind (forget the player), leading directly to your teams only score?

I would have a lot more respect for the officiating sucks threads if the posts were at least marginally unbiased.

Bottom line is, Sharks won by beating the Wings at their own game, which many of you gloated would never happen.

Edited May 9, 2010 by Ratbastrd

[Electrophile 3,554]

Of course there's a bias here.....this is a Red Wings message board! What do you expect, a bias toward the Canucks?

[Stinkyness 10]

So based on the points made here, does anyone think Stuart should have been called for the shot to Murray's head shortly after the Franzen no-call. Murray's lip was shredded, guy was bleeding all over himself? For that matter, should Stuart have received something more then a minor for the elbow to Pavelski's head? According to the new rules that is a game misconduct penalty.

How about knocking Thornton's stick out of his hands from behind (forget the player), leading directly to your teams only score?

I would have a lot more respect for the officiating sucks threads if the posts were at least marginally unbiased.

Bottom line is, Sharks won by beating the Wings at their own game, which many of you gloated would never happen.

Lemme get this straight. Your team beat ours in a best of 7 series....yet your inferiority complex still requires you to both whine and gloat on the losers forum? Man you got issues. Choking Joe still has two rounds left to disappear in. Go make your shark jaw motions and root for Choking Joe, your welcome is about worn out here.

I mean, the only reason you're still here is because you wish your team WAS the Wings....like the history, the cups, the traditions, the cups...yah....see ya next year!

[Buppy 1,720]

So based on the points made here, does anyone think Stuart should have been called for the shot to Murray's head shortly after the Franzen no-call. Murray's lip was shredded, guy was bleeding all over himself? For that matter, should Stuart have received something more then a minor for the elbow to Pavelski's head? According to the new rules that is a game misconduct penalty.

How about knocking Thornton's stick out of his hands from behind (forget the player), leading directly to your teams only score?

I would have a lot more respect for the officiating sucks threads if the posts were at least marginally unbiased.

Bottom line is, Sharks won by beating the Wings at their own game, which many of you gloated would never happen.

Yes, Stuart's head shot should have been called. Though I'd suggest that if Murray's had not preceded it, or at least been called, Stuie wouldn't have sought retalliation. I took the refs letting Stuart's go as an admission that they F'd up the Murray hit.

And like I say in pretty much any officiating discussion, there are always missed calls on both sides. Picking out one here and there doesn't make it even. We have seen VS announcers talking about the terrible calls in game 2. We even had Bettman come close to admitting that refs can make mistakes. This series was not called evenly.

I'm not saying that the Wings would have won. Aside from game 4, it was pretty evenly played. The Sharks capitalized better on their opportunities, but they also unfairly had more of them. I'd say the Sharks probably would have won anyway. What really bothers me though is that since we can't ever get any kind of consensus, we have no real hope of improvement.

Losers always cry about the problem, but in a biased way. Winners always say it was fair. Truth is, it's hardly ever perfectly balanced. Even if it was though, who cares? The focus should be that the officiating is terrible. It's been terrible for years, and will continue to be terrible until somebody admits that there is a problem. We should not be talking about the five missed calls on your team, and you responding with the 5 missed on ours. That's too many mistakes, and it has far too much impact on the games.

The league made such a big deal about head hits this year. Murray's hit could have been used as an example to go along with the explicit definition the league came up with. But the refs let it go, and then let Stuie's response go. Being even doesn't make it good. But you don't want to admit there was a problem, because you fear it takes some validity away from your win. The league doesn't want to admit there's a problem, because they fear cries of bias or unfair play. Only the losers talk about it, and we're easily brushed aside as whiners. So it will never get any better (at least not until we get a commissioner with some balls).

I hope it's not the Sharks getting shafted next round. Good luck.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Is it fun being a douchebag? You seem to be a pretty knowledgable hockey fan so why not ignore the crap and just talk hockey? I dunno, seems pretty easy.

Consider this when you talk about whining. If your Franzen and the non-call on a play you felt was a penalty lead to the game winner in a game where your team was elimanated from the playoffs for the 1st time since 2006 before the 3rd round... I'd be pretty pissy and whiny too. He'll get over it and probably wont mention it after this week. Like the Sharks havent whined about something or another before.

[Electrophile 3,554]

You must be pretty fly to get a "cut" like that.

I'm cool screwing with punks like you for a while. I will split before to long, don't worry.

CUT = custom user text. And my friends here think I'm pretty cool and their opinions are the only ones that really matter in this issue. So again, you have no reason to make comment. As for me being a punk........you're clearly a few fries short of a Happy Meal, so you can think that if you like.

[Ratbastrd 90]

Yes, Stuart's head shot should have been called. Though I'd suggest that if Murray's had not preceded it, or at least been called, Stuie wouldn't have sought retalliation. I took the refs letting Stuart's go as an admission that they F'd up the Murray hit.

And like I say in pretty much any officiating discussion, there are always missed calls on both sides. Picking out one here and there doesn't make it even. We have seen VS announcers talking about the terrible calls in game 2. We even had Bettman come close to admitting that refs can make mistakes. This series was not called evenly.

I'm not saying that the Wings would have won. Aside from game 4, it was pretty evenly played. The Sharks capitalized better on their opportunities, but they also unfairly had more of them. I'd say the Sharks probably would have won anyway. What really bothers me though is that since we can't ever get any kind of consensus, we have no real hope of improvement.

Losers always cry about the problem, but in a biased way. Winners always say it was fair. Truth is, it's hardly ever perfectly balanced. Even if it was though, who cares? The focus should be that the officiating is terrible. It's been terrible for years, and will continue to be terrible until somebody admits that there is a problem. We should not be talking about the five missed calls on your team, and you responding with the 5 missed on ours. That's too many mistakes, and it has far too much impact on the games.

The league made such a big deal about head hits this year. Murray's hit could have been used as an example to go along with the explicit definition the league came up with. But the refs let it go, and then let Stuie's response go. Being even doesn't make it good. But you don't want to admit there was a problem, because you fear it takes some validity away from your win. The league doesn't want to admit there's a problem, because they fear cries of bias or unfair play. Only the losers talk about it, and we're easily brushed aside as whiners. So it will never get any better (at least not until we get a commissioner with some balls).

I hope it's not the Sharks getting shafted next round. Good luck.

I agree with most of you said. I suppose I look at it a little differently. Probably because of the way our team has always played. The Sharks have never been an edgy team, meaning they didn't try to get away with a lot stuff. Because of this they have never established a reputation, which in my opinion does follow teams.

That being said, the Sharks have probably gotten the short end of many games on the score board, because they didn't take "liberties" and play the game on the edge, they gave the other team an advantage.

This year, they are playing more edgy. They are fighting to win, where they didn't previously. The Sharks earn a lot of calls against opposing teams playing as hard as they do on the forecheck and (I believe) because of their perceived style of play reputation for being a clean team.

Edit: I would also say a team has to be cognizant of the officiating within a game. Pay attention to what the refs are calling and not calling. The Wings (deserved or not) gave the officials too many opportunities to make bad calls with poor stick management, bad positioning etc. If is looks like a penalty a poor skating official is probably going to call it. The players have to take responsibility for this.

Edited May 9, 2010 by Ratbastrd

[RusDRW 155]

I don't like all this s*** about "we should have been better" and "we shouldn't whine about officiating" now. The hockey game was invented to be fair for both sides and I DON'T LIKE that in each and every ******* series nowadays ONE TEAM HAS TO OVERCOME OFFICIATING in order to win. And I'm not talking about my Red Wings only.

Example? It just happened to SJ in this play-offs. Just recall SJS-COL series. SJ had two times more penalties! Can you ******* imagine that? Spending 50 minutes in their zone, putting 50 shots on goal in every game and they still got 32 penalties as opposed to 15 against COL. They managed to overcome this simply because SJ is head and shoulders above Colorado. However, what if... Joe Pavelski never scored that OT goal? What if... Colorado magically scored on at least 50% of their opportunities? History will be made? It is just not fair.

We were better than SJ in our series. But not twice better... and that was required for us to win it. I don't know what could have happened if officiating was fair. However, most likely, weaker team advanced.

It is not hockey I once loved. Perhaps, that is one of the reason I no longer pay to watch it.

[Ratbastrd 90]

I just can't celebrate my team making the WCF for the second time in Sharks history. I much prefer hanging around commiserating with the great fans here at LGW and discussing the storied dynasty and gold standard of hockey that is the Red Wings.

Edited May 10, 2010 by vladdy16

[titanium2 867]

Blah blah blah. With the way that series went down you're just not going to get much respect from Wings fans. In games as close as those, the Sharks were simply the fortunate benefactors of incompetent officiating. None of the Red Wings will admit it because they earn their salaries from being politically correct but it proved to be a difference a lot more than it should have been. It's no wonder why Versus took a closer look at it because it was that bad.

[Buppy 1,720]

...

Edit: I would also say a team has to be cognizant of the officiating within a game. Pay attention to what the refs are calling and not calling. The Wings (deserved or not) gave the officials too many opportunities to make bad calls with poor stick management, bad positioning etc. If is looks like a penalty a poor skating official is probably going to call it. The players have to take responsibility for this.

BS. Once a team 'learns' how the refs are calling the game, it's already too late. This is exactly the apologist attitude that gives us the officiating we have. The Wings nor anyone else should have ot worry about being called for interference (twice, in one game) when a goalie dives. The Sharks shouldn't get called for an obvious makeup when a player gets pushed into the net. Players shouldn't be called for holding because a player that was checked perfectly legally falls backward instead of forward. If the refs are going to call interference when a player gets pushed down in the crease, they should call it whether the player lands on the goalie or not. Bert shouldn't be penalized for letting a Shark player pin his stick against the boards.

If the players have to, within the course of a game, allow the refs to make enough mistakes in order to adjust their game to avoid those mistakes, then already too many mistakes have been made. And worse, forcing players to adjust away from their play style, even though it may be perfectly legal, is itself unfair. Refs should not be so fickle, so inconsistent. That should not be acceptible.

[RusDRW 155]

I just can't celebrate my team making the WCF for the second time in Sharks history. I much prefer hanging around commiserating with the great fans here at LGW and discussing the storied dynasty and gold standard of hockey that is the Red Wings.

I just don't understand what you're looking for on this board. We all feel that something was wrong. Just imagine for a second what you're going to feel when all these "minor" things will go in Hawks' favor, when officials will not notice SJ player cut by the stick, when Seabrook will try to take away Pevelski with a blind hit. When at the end you'll realize that your team was penalized two times more and they still lost the game by one goal... You better be prepared. Most likely it is Hawks who NHL wants to be in the finals.

[vladdy16 2,154]

I just don't understand what you're looking for on this board. We all feel that something was wrong. Just imagine for a second what you're going to feel when all these "minor" things will go in Hawks' favor, when officials will not notice SJ player cut by the stick, when Seabrook will try to take away Pevelski with a blind hit. When at the end you'll realize that your team was penalized two times more and they still lost the game by one goal... You better be prepared. Most likely it is Hawks who NHL wants to be in the finals.

Rus, that was what I edited his post into. His original post was trashing some article about the Sharks. I made him sing the Wings praises just for fun.

[Electrophile 3,554]

Rus, that was what I edited his post into. His original post was trashing some article about the Sharks. I made him sing the Wings praises just for fun.

No fair that you get to do that.

[titanium2 867]

I just can't celebrate my team making the WCF for the second time in Sharks history. I much prefer hanging around commiserating with the great fans here at LGW and discussing the storied dynasty and gold standard of hockey that is the Red Wings.

On a Red Wings board you're looking to celebrate? What the hell are you thinking?

The real reason why you're here is so you can find some Wings fans on who will say, "Sharks were awesome. They played a really good game. I really want them to win from here on out." Somehow that makes you feel really good that your team won. The only problem is that a lot of us on here feel that if the officials did their jobs correctly then we really don't know if the Sharks make the 3rd round. And that's a bad thing. When a team gets beat they should be able to know and feel that they flat out got beat. And sure, you'll find those kind of responses from some Wings fans but I'm sure a lot of them deep down have nagging doubts about such a politically correct response.